Sarah: Welcome back Previa Alliance, This is Sarah.
Whitney: And Whitney.
Sarah: Once again, Thanks for taking time and space for us. Today's topic is why we should talk about mom's mental health. Or you may even hear us say maternal mental health. Which is just a fancy way of saying moms, moms. So why do you think Whitney we should talk about it.
Whitney: I think for a long time, moms have kind of been dismissed about their feelings. We talked about this in a couple of episodes ago about the hormonal shifts and crashes that we do experience in postpartum. I don't want to dismiss that, that's absolutely something that can affect our mental health. But I think oftentimes women have been told, oh, you feel that way because it's your hormones.
Sarah: Right.
Whitney: And they're not given the opportunity to talk about what's actually going on. They're being told, oh, it's hormonal, it'll get better. And sometimes it's not just the hormones. That is a factor. I don't want to sound dismissive of that, but it is a factor. And when we're told that's it and that, oh, it'll fix itself in time. That's not helpful.
Sarah: No, it's not.
Whitney: So many moms get gaslighted, whether it's by friends or family or even people in the medical community.
Sarah: Yes.
Whitney: So I think women have been gaslighted for a very long time with that. And I think even still, I think some of this can be prevalent where moms are told, well, you chose to have kids. What did you expect?
Sarah: And you know, there's probably moms with us that maybe these pregnancy wasn't planned or expected agree, or this pregnancy was prayed over, tried for, so all different journeys to this.
Whitney: Absolutely.
Sarah: But it doesn't make your journey or reason to be pregnant or not, does not change what your experience can be with your emotions and feelings. And it doesn't, I don't, you know, that was one thing with Will, which I had a traumatic birth. And he was in the NICU. I kept hearing the baby's fine. You should be happy. You guys survived. This is good. The very just feeling of like, I couldn't communicate how I was feeling, because this was such a miracle that we survived. Yeah.
But even my friends who had perfect births, you know, easy breezy, they felt like they couldn't complain, They are tired. They felt like they couldn't say they're true feelings, how hard it actually is.
Whitney: Oh, for sure.
Sarah: So I think though, you know, and I remember an older family member telling me, you know, back in my day, we sucked it up and dealt with it. So there, I think it's just this whole thing without moms, they think we're complaining and being negative.
Whitney: Ungrateful.
Sarah: You know, as you said, you chose this. When we should be supportive of moms, we should have open conversations because I guarantee a lot, what we felt is what other women feel. Normalizing it. And I felt like the traditional healthcare system that we're in right now, it's so fast paced providers have a lot of patience, you don't really get an opportunity.
Whitney: Not to really delve into those questions that you have.
Sarah: Right. Or be honest and open. And like in our screening podcast, you may not been screened like me, or if you are screened...
Whitney: You may have fear of answering truthfully and what's going to happen.
Sarah: I'm sorry, but sometimes being thrown 10 questions, when your baby, if you have your baby with you at that six weeks appointment, or if you're super pregnant and before you're given birth and you're ready late for work, or you're late for an appointment, you sat there for ever, that's just not the time or place. So I think it's a huge gap of care that moms fall into is OBs try and, you know, midwives, doulas I think they're very, and their core try to be there from moms. But I just, I don't think it's their wheelhouse. I don't think mom's mental health is what they're specialized in.
Whitney: Not to be mean, but we can only specialize in so many things. And OBs, midwives, doulas, they specialize in the prenatal care. They specialize in labor and delivery. So that's a lot of knowledge that they have to have. And they have to have a lot of knowledge for a lot of people. For a lot of patients. And so they can only, our brains can only handle so much. You know, not to mention their own personal lives, they have to throw those details in there. Especially again, if they're a mom, because who's the default parent, 90% of the time, the mom. So let's keep it real. They don't necessarily have the brain space To have all of that. Not saying that they're uninformed Or uneducated or don't care. But that's not their specialty.
Sarah: It's not. And I’ve even found once you kind of leave that six weeks postpartum visit, unless you go back for maybe birth control. The whole check-ins of mom's mental health is really not there. And I'm sorry, during a vaginal exam, that's really not the time place one [05:38 inaudible]. Little intrusive for all. But pediatricians are actually supposed to be screening moms for using Edinburg Or 10 questionnaire that you guys get frequently emails, but I’ve talked to a lot of pediatricians. And what I hear is they don't have easy ways to refer to therapist.
Whitney: I would agree with that. Cause even the pediatrician that I used for my girls, she knew that I had worked in a hospital prior to becoming a therapist. And when I had that conversation of, oh, I'm actually not going to be at the hospital anymore. I'm changing ever to a private practice. She was like, oh, I need your information because you know, I have moms frequently. I have children frequently and I need to be able to refer them to somebody cause at least in the state of Alabama, a lot of your Medicaid providers are booked out for months. A lot of your pediatric mental health providers are booked out for months and that's unfortunate.
And so pediatricians do need those resources at their fingertips. And I will say this because I do see the pediatrician more often in that first year, as opposed to my OB, which I love my OB. He's always been very kind and compassionate and listening to me. I'm actually pretty comfortable if my pediatrician's like, Hey, Are you sleeping? What does baby sleep like? I feel like I can be real and say, oh it's awful.
Sarah: You know, looking back with Will our first son, you guys keep hearing me mention. I kept taking him to the pediatrician, especially in the early years or early days, I felt like something was wrong with him. There wasn't, it was me. It was a super busy practice. I loved her. She was great. This is not me saying it's she should have caught. But I think sometimes moms bring to the doctor more than not when they're struggling to kind of maybe see, this is why I feel anxious. Or see, this is why I have this fear of not sleeping. Look at what he's doing X.
Whitney: Well, and I think it's a subtle way of communicating that you need help.
Sarah: It was. Now looking back, I was begging for help.
Whitney: Oh yeah. And so mama's, that's something, you know, for you to kind of be aware of for your own selves. If you feel like you are taking your baby to the pediatrician frequently and they don't find things, that might be a little bit of a red flag for you to be like, oh, am I anxious? Or, oh, am I depressed? Or you can look at your friends and family and think, wait a minute, is there something here? Now I will say in this day and age of COVID, especially when we've had COVID babies and all the things and obviously all your COVID symptoms look like so many other sicknesses, we do tend to have to bring our babies into the pediatrician frequently To get that swab. Especially if your baby is in a daycare, preschool type setting.
Sarah: I have older siblings who love to bring all those little germs.
Whitney: Yeah. Both my kids are daycare kids that we bring home all the fun stuff.
Sarah: We have had this year everything.
Whitney: Oh yeah.
Sarah: Flu, GI, COVID yeah. Half a year. I think we've knocked it all out. I say that and then this fall comes.
Whitney: I was about to say you may want to knock on wood.
Sarah: Knock on wood.
Whitney: Yeah. You know, we just got through our round of RSV over here.
Sarah: Every text conversation me and Whitney have now is... What does your child have X now?
Whitney: Can we still meet, is it a super contagious disease? Do we want to risk it?
Sarah: The time and ages we live in.
Whitney: Ss Mama's, I feel you, if you feel like you do have to take your baby to the pediatrician because they spike a fever mm-hmm <affirmative> because they're coughing because they're snotty, Those are valid reasons to take your child to the doctor.
Sarah: We're not saying not to. We are saying with me, it was...
Whitney: And this is pre COVID times.
Sarah: Pre COVID times. And I'm a nurse background, but you would think I'd be, which probably should have been more of a red flag to my friends and family. Is that I should have maybe had more of a, I felt less. Maybe I should have been comfortable. Maybe I shouldn't. I never did with children.
Whitney: I feel like medical mamas though. We have seen kind of the worst of the worst or we hear the worst of the worst.
Sarah: That's very true.
Whitney: So I do think that we have worst case scenario thinking which leads into intrusive thoughts, which brings us to the pediatrician.
Sarah: My late night Googling was not well for me.
Whitney: Oh yeah. Dr. Google. No, no mamas, No Google's, no Youtubeing. No WebMD.
Sarah: Those like chat boards where you know, people are like, my kid has X, Y, and Z. Have you ever heard of it? I went down a rabbit hole on those.
Whitney: Yeah. It's not helpful. Especially at two or three in the morning.
Sarah: Which is always when we're on our phones, trying to stay awake to feed the child.
Whitney: Yeah. Or, you know, again, if they are sick, we're Googling like how bad is this fever? When do I go to the ER for this? I'm right there with you Mama's, well, both my children, when they have had RSV and they've had high temps that, you know, sometimes Motrin and Tylenol, couldn't really break that fever. And it's, you know, middle of the night or it's the weekend. And I'm like, do I take you to the hospital? Is this ER, worthy? If I take you to the ER, are they going to look at me, Like I’ve got three heads because I brought you to the ER for a 101 temp. But if it won't break, that's when I'm like, well, what do we do? So mama's just, know if your baby does have symptoms, if you do have all concerns, seek out your pediatrician.
Sarah: They should have a hotline or a triage nurse or somewhere that you could call.
Whitney: Oh yes, absolutely.
Sarah: But if you ever, I always say no shame. If you need to take them onto, ER, I have taken my child in more times than I probably shouldn't pass postpartum impression, past the anxiety.
Whitney: Hey pediatric urgent cares, I'm here for then.
Sarah: They're so needed and appreciated.
Whitney: They just kept us outta the ER, a couple of times just so my baby could get seen and swabbed. And we're not spending five hours at the ER On the weekend because pediatrician's office is closed.
Sarah: So take that whatever feelings of what they may say about you or you feel that, It does not matter. You do what's best for your baby. Yeah. But when we say we want to talk about postpartum depression, we want to talk about postpartum anxiety. We want to talk about postpartum rage, OCD, intrusive thoughts. This is why we want to talk about it. Because I don't want you guys to have the experience where I did, where I had this thought that popped in my head. I didn't feel like I could say it to anyone and that makes you feel worse. But if you have heard Whitney or me speak about this and you go, okay, let's name it. Let's name it. That's what that is. Peaking something and recognize what it is, kind of takes the power of fear of it away.
Whitney: It does. Cause you know what you're dealing with.
Sarah: And don't feel like you're alone in this. Postpartum depression was one in five pre COVID. Now we're looking at about one and three as the latest studies.
Whitney: And I think that's all that's being reported.
Sarah: We think it's way more personally.
Whitney: Agree. And maybe two outta three.
Sarah: And then we have, you can have postpartum depression, anxiety, post losses and miscarriages.
Whitney: Oh yes, yes, yes, yes.
Sarah: You Can have postpartum PTSD. If you had a traumatic birth, if you've had a loss, if your labor something did not go, that was scary, that was very scary to you. Those are valid.
Whitney: Oh yeah. And a traumatic delivery doesn't necessarily mean you have a stats C-section Or forceps are used or you have a fourth degree or babies in NICU. A traumatic delivery is what you describe as a traumatic delivery. So just because aunt Sue says, oh, well that wasn't a bad delivery. At least you didn't have a C-section but you're over there screaming because you had forceps in a fourth degree. That's trauma. That is a trauma. And you are valid in feeling that way.
Sarah: No one gets to tell you how you feel.
Whitney: Bingo
Sarah: Or why you feel this way. So when we talk about traumatic births, when we talk about and chosen thoughts, when we talk about being sad, being overwhelmed, sensory overload, we're bringing this to the forefront to make you feel like you're not alone. So this is why we should be talking about it. Postpartum depression is actually the most common complication of childbirth. I always say we screen for our blood pressure, hypertension, preeclampsia. We have to lovely pee and get tested.
Whitney: We have to check for protein in urine.
Sarah: Exactly. You know, we do that lovely glucose test Brings us back.
Whitney: GBS.
Sarah: To those days of chugging that horrible tasting. I always went for the fruit punch type.
Whitney: Oh dear. I did orange One time and the Sprite One time, the Sprite wasn't horrible. It was like a flat Sprite.
Sarah: And you know you're on an empty belly, that I digress. That's a whole thing. But we screen these women for this every time. But no one's saying how are you feeling? Yeah. Which we know moms are the backbone of our society.
Whitney: We get stuff done.
Sarah: We're moms. We know moms. We love moms. This is why we are here to talk about it. Cause we know a healthy mom is a healthy baby is a healthy her. We want you guys to succeed. We want you feel equipped. We want you to know that this is a safe place. We're both moms. We're both very real about how our experiences are.
Whitney: Oh yeah.
Sarah: We're not here to judge. So this is why we should be talking about it's cause we want you to feel empowered.
Whitney: And here's the thing let's say that you listening right now, You're not experiencing postpartum depression, anxiety, OCD, PTSD, anything that falls under that maternal mental health umbrella. But you know, somebody that does. You can open that door and have that conversation with them. Cause they might be scared to.
Sarah: So many of my friends after I became open with my. Story, cause I was not open.
Whitney: Most moms are.
Sarah: For a while.
Whitney: Cause there's a lot of shame and guilt and that's kind of thrown on us from society.
Sarah: Yeah. They said, oh I would've never guessed it. But then I start being more open. They're like, okay, you know, then it's like this whole conversation. It's kind of like a me too where it's like, you have to, someone has to say it first.
Whitney: It takes the stigma away because you realize it's more common than is really talked about. And ill say this, I do feel like infertility.
Sarah: Yes.
Whitney: Miscarriage, stillbirth, a neonatal or child loss that happens. I would say like soon after delivery, as opposed to maybe an older child that dies in an accident of some sort, those categories I feel like are more common than are talked about, but there's such a stigma and people are so uncomfortable talking about it. And especially in the south, I can't speak for other parts of the country, but Alabama born and raised here, we are so scared or mindful about making other people uncomfortable. That we don't talk about it cause it's like, well that's just not good manners or that's not ladylike or that's not what we do here.
Sarah: And I think sometimes it's they don't know what to say in response to, my husband and I experienced few miscarriages on our journey. And we had after our first miscarriage, I had to have uterine surgery. I had a septum. So it was a couple of surgeries to even get to Will. And then along that journey, like you were saying, people would throw every kind of words back at me. You know, try again. It's okay. Just relax. Or you know, it's God's plan.
Whitney: There's a reason for everything.
Sarah: You know, you're young. There's a lot that felt very dismissive along the way. So we're saying is if you make this conversation with friends and family, you're helping someone.
Whitney: Oh absolutely.
Sarah: You, your words and truth is impactful. And that's the whole goal too, behind previous, just for us to share this with moms, for you not to feel alone. And if no one's going to talk about it. No one's going to screen you if no one's going to provide these resources. We are. Absolutely. So that's where we stand. We thank you guys for being with us again. Please continue the conversation with your friends and families. And we look forward to talking to you again.
Whitney: One little bit of advice. If you are talking to someone about your infertility struggles, maternal mental illnesses, your losses, anything like that. And you can tell someone feels uncomfortable about it. It's okay to tell them that you don't expect them to fix it.
Sarah: Oh yes.
Whitney: Because that's likely what they want to do. I am a fixer. I am guilty just saying I am guilty of that, but just tell them, I don't expect you to fix it. I just need you to listen.
Sarah: And I think even just getting it off your chest.
Whitney: Oh yes.
Sarah: Which Whitney was providing me this wonderful tidbit, which we'll talk more about, but voice journaling.
Whitney: Oh yeah. Voice journaling, huge advocate of voice journaling.
Sarah: If sometimes you feel like you're going anything. If your children are driving you up the wall. If you're having high anxiety about something. If you've went through a hard day, a traumatic event. Anything you've been cut off in traffic 15 times. You're late. You're throwing up on the side of the road, Cause you're in the first trimester. Just letting that out and not hearing anybody else's opinions on it. Yeah. So impactful.
Whitney: It is. Sometimes, cause your phone's not going to talk back to you. You just get to spit it all out and then delete it and get that closure.
Sarah: So we said we're going to provide lots of little tidbits along the way, but most important thing is what Whitney said is that we don't expect other peoples to fix it. We're just expressing our story. That's your story. As again, we love you all. Thank you for being with us.
Whitney: Have a good one.
