Previa Alliance Podcast
There are few experiences as universal to human existence as pregnancy and childbirth, and yet its most difficult parts — perinatal mood and anxiety disorders (PMADs) — are still dealt with in the shadows, shrouded in stigma. The fact is 1 in 5 new and expecting birthing people will experience a PMAD, yet among those who do many are afraid to talk about it, some are not even aware they’re experiencing one, and others don’t know where to turn for help. The fact is, when someone suffers from a maternal mental health disorder it affects not only them, their babies, partners, and families - it impacts our communities.
In the Previa Alliance Podcast series, Sarah Parkhurst and Whitney Gay are giving air to a vastly untapped topic by creating a space for their guests — including survivors of PMADs and healthcare professionals in maternal mental health — to share their experiences and expertise openly. And in doing so, Sarah and Whitney make it easy to dig deep and get real about the facts of perinatal mental health, fostering discussions about the raw realities of motherhood. Not only will Previa Alliance Podcast listeners walk away from each episode with a sense of belonging, they’ll also be armed with evidence-based tools for healing, coping mechanisms, and the language to identify the signs and symptoms of PMADs — the necessary first steps in a path to treatment. The Previa Alliance Podcast series is intended for anyone considering pregnancy, currently pregnant, and postpartum as well as the families and communities who support them.
Sarah Parkhurst
Previa Alliance Podcast Co-host; Founder & CEO of Previa Alliance
A postpartum depression survivor and mom to two boys, Sarah is on a mission to destigmatize the experiences of perinatal mood and anxiety disorders (PMADs), and to educate the world on the complex reality of being a mom. Sarah has been working tirelessly to bring to light the experiences of women who have not only suffered a maternal mental health crisis but who have survived it and rebuilt their lives. By empowering women to share their own experiences, by sharing expert advice and trusted resources, and by advocating for health care providers and employers to provide support for these women and their families, Sarah believes as a society we can minimize the impact of the current maternal mental health crisis, while staving off future ones.
Whitney Gay
Previa Alliance Podcast Co-host; licensed clinician and therapist
For the past ten years, Whitney has been committed to helping women heal from the trauma of a postpartum mental health crisis as well as process the grief of a miscarriage or the loss of a baby. She believes that the power of compassion paired with developing critical coping skills helps moms to heal, rebuild, and eventually thrive. In the Previa Alliance Podcast series, Whitney not only shares her professional expertise, but also her own personal experiences of motherhood and recovery from grief.
Follow us on Instagram @Previa.Alliance
Previa Alliance Podcast
Hey Whitney! Toolbox Tips for Moms
Us moms and moms to be are busy, stressed, short on time, and looking for someone to give us all the tips. As always we live it and want to share our proven therapy tips to help a fellow mama out. In today’s episode learn about triangulation to finding our glimmers in life. Get ready to add more tools to your toolbox!
Follow Previa Alliance!
Previa Alliance (@previa.alliance) • Instagram photos and videos
Previa Alliance Podcast (@previapodcast) • Instagram photos and videos
Keep the questions coming by sending them to info@previaalliance.com or DM us on Instagram!
Hey guys, welcome back to PreviewLine's podcast. It's Sarah and Whitney. Okay, one of your favorites is your toolbox tips. So, whitney, you ready to give it? Let's do it. Okay, we got this All right. Your first tip, Whitney, tell us triangulation Am. I even saying it right, uh-huh.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay.
Speaker 1:Crangulation Okay.
Speaker 2:So this is super fun, and we usually see this in a lot of kind of complicated, potentially toxic family dynamics. So what it is is you've got one person who has a beef with somebody else, so let's just say it's ambrinda, because it's always ambrinda, it's always ambrinda, it's always ambrinda. So ambrinda has a beef with me. Uh-huh, ambrinda is not going to come to me, okay. She's not going to say, whitney, when you did X, y and Z, that really frustrated me, bothered me. Whatever the case may be, she's going to go to you, okay, so ambrinda calls me.
Speaker 1:Where does she see? you're my cousin.
Speaker 2:Okay, so Sarah's my cousin Calls cousin Sarah. Yes, cousin Sarah. So we got ambrinda, both of our aunts. Ambrinda's mad at me, okay, But she's not going to talk to me. So she's going to go to cousin Sarah and she's going to tell Sarah I'm mad at Whitney because of this, this and this. Isn't she just the worst?
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 2:And I might get thrown under the bus.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay.
Speaker 2:I might get thrown under the bus. So Sarah is going to look to you for that validation and that support, basically just reassuring her and her thought process That it's not her, it's you, correct, and here's the thing. She can be frustrated and mad at me, but it's how she's going about things.
Speaker 1:Is cause she's she were playing telephone here.
Speaker 2:So she's going to come to you and then she's going to say now don't you say anything to her.
Speaker 1:So now she's going to put you in a really hard spot.
Speaker 2:Okay Now, if you and I don't even have maybe like a close relationship, let's just say we're holiday cousins.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We just see each other at the holidays no, no beef, but we're just not super close, right, so you can be influenced by that.
Speaker 1:So then now I start looking at you like you're going to start viewing me differently.
Speaker 2:So then, when we get together at Christmas, thanksgiving, whatever the case is, i just hear what ain't Brenda said about you in my head And you're going to start looking at me and being like. I see that, Yeah, Oh Sarah, big Sarah.
Speaker 2:And so then let's just say, after that, get together and Brenda calls you, get in, and she's did you see what we need to do? And you're like I did see what she did. And then you know what. She's probably going to loop somebody else into the mix. We're going to say, like cause of Mary.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Cause of Mary gets looped in and all of a sudden and Brenda kind of starts pinning all these people against me but won't actually come to me.
Speaker 1:And you have no idea now why.
Speaker 2:I'm sidying, Correct. I may notice that there's tension, but you're like why? Yeah, but I may be very clueless as to what has actually happened.
Speaker 1:So not going directly to a person.
Speaker 2:Because no one is telling me what I did that upset them She's not directing Brenda. Cause I'm going to be intentionally trying to upset. I'm not saying that I'm perfect and I didn't do anything to upset her and she's not valid in those feelings.
Speaker 1:I might be clueless that I upset her, so it's not going to. and, brenda, usually she's directing everything that we talk about her, but today she has chose violence via gossip.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, okay.
Speaker 1:She's been in the group and chose the aggression. So what should I say to ain't Brenda in that?
Speaker 2:situation As a cousin, uh-huh.
Speaker 1:To stop this triangle.
Speaker 2:So if you kind of realize, okay, well, i don't have Whitney side of the story, that's when, again, you can validate Aunt Brenda's feelings, because she's allowed to be frustrated. I'm not saying don't feel what you feel, yeah, and you can say you know what, aunt Brenda, i can really see where that would frustrate to you. I get that. Have you tried talking to Whitney about it to figure things out? Yeah, and just throwing that out there casually. That being said, aunt Brenda may not receive that, she may not receive it and she may get defensive with you. So then you kind of have to be prepared. She might start doing the same thing to you.
Speaker 1:Triangulating people.
Speaker 2:Because when we look at triangulating literally, you think about a triangle. You have three components here, and so Aunt Brenda ain't going to come down to me.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:So you're going to try and get other people kind of coming against me, Gotcha. So when you think about a triangle you can have two corners against one.
Speaker 1:Always learning something new with these toolbox.
Speaker 2:Okay, with that you know you can do a gentle redirection of. Have you tried talking to so and so about your concerns?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Or you can even say what did Whitney say when you, when you brought this up to her? What was her reaction? Right? I mean, you're honestly kind of given her credit, assuming that she has approached me When she hasn't. When she hasn't And that's when she's going to say, well, I don't think I can talk to her about this.
Speaker 1:We all have that person.
Speaker 2:Yep, it's very common, very very common.
Speaker 1:Now we just named what they do to us, so you know it's crazy, but now you know.
Speaker 2:But now you know and it's not in your head that you feel like sometimes people are against you, right, because it can happen.
Speaker 1:It's now we know the reason. Well, okay, all right guys, here we go. The next toolbox tip, okay. So I saw this on Instagram and we know triggers. Yes, and they said to find sparkle or glimmers in your day.
Speaker 2:I love this.
Speaker 1:Let's So tell us what this sparkle or glimmer is and how we should use this tool as we're going about our day, to improve our day.
Speaker 2:So I love this because it's kind of that catchphrase of an attitude of gratitude.
Speaker 2:So what this can mean is that you know, if you do get up five or two minutes before your kids and you're able to have your coffee before they get up, you're able to have just that little bit of a quiet moment and you're just like I love this moment You get a hot shower.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, for me this morning it was driving with my sunroof open and just enjoying how nice the weather was and kind of having my music up a little bit louder, just embracing these small parts of our day that don't cost us anything, we don't have to go, you know, extravagant, but it's just appreciating these small things. And, like we've talked before, with the losses in our life, you know, if I see a cardinal now or a bluebird or a yellow butterfly, like for you, i'm like, oh, that's really cool. I see that little glimmer of remembrance or I see that little bit of comfort right there That makes us feel good. Yeah, it's a comfort for us. And you know, i also got a die doctor, a Chick-fil-A this morning, and you know what That's happy for me.
Speaker 1:So find it and look back. I've tried to start going. look back through your day and dig out those little glimmers and sparkles and say, okay, that sunset was great, Or you know what That was really great. I mean, I'm not going to be. Whitney or you know whatever. Or if your child does something super thoughtful Or cute or you're just like oh, he was so cute at that moment. Or your spouse remembers to pick up something You're like oh, that was so great.
Speaker 1:Those little things So instead of remembering the bad, look at the sparkle the glimmers of your day.
Speaker 2:It's easy to look at the bad.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying that we don't, we all do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we all do it And it's easy to do those things. But if we try to reframe a little bit which is something I talk about a lot in sessions with clients is reframing our thought process. How we view something, how we approach something, can make a huge difference in how our attitude is when we go to bed at night and then how we wake up the next day.
Speaker 1:Choose an injured day with glimmers of sparkle.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:That's your tip. Okay, i saw this talking about self-sabotage.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's such a thing And, honestly, sometimes we're not aware we're doing it.
Speaker 1:And one thing I was told once was people self-sabotage to control the outcome. Like it just dawned upon me. I'm like, yeah, wow, people are that into control that they would self-sabotage. So no, they know how it ends, because the fear of that unknown or being vulnerable is too much for them.
Speaker 2:Yes, so this I can go real deep, go deep, go deep.
Speaker 1:We love a go deep moment here.
Speaker 2:Of course, you know, whenever someone mentions like they need to feel, like they can control something in their life, that tells me that there's anxiety present. Because what can make our anxiety feel better, managed or not so severe? And it's when we can control something whatever that may be So like for me. for example, i don't love being the passenger in a car for a long car ride. It bothers me. I would much rather be the driver. Why? Because I can control my car.
Speaker 2:I can control the car that I'm in. I can control the car that my children are in. I can't control other people. I just can't, And even though like my husband or my parents or him it can be a great driver. Honestly, I'm going to trust myself a little bit more, Okay.
Speaker 1:I get that.
Speaker 2:But at the same time sometimes that can be a self-sabotage, because I'm taking on more, I'm not willing to delegate, And so we've talked about the invisible load of motherhood or their mental load of motherhood. So that just adds another layer of. I've got to make sure that I fill up my car and have a head at service. I got to make sure that I'm aware all the time, or I'm the one you know not sleeping and doing this long drive. So then I'm cranky and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah all those things.
Speaker 2:So it's weird when we try to have a little bit of control, sometimes it can be a self-sabotage because we're taking on so much more. And to take it to a whole nother level of deepness right there is so often, especially when we're kids and especially for exposed to trauma consistently, we live in fight or flight.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So we become conditioned to chaos, And so oftentimes, when life settles a little bit or the pieces of the puzzle start to kind of go where they're supposed to, our brain is like oh no, no, no, we can't do this because we don't know how to handle being in a peaceful setting.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:And so then that's when somebody self-sabotages and they create a chaos somehow, somehow, someway, because they're used to living in fight or flight, because their brain is more comfortable than fight or flight.
Speaker 1:Let me tell you I've dated this person. Mm-hmm, That was not fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not fun And that's really a trauma response.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow.
Speaker 2:Because if you live in fight or flight, you're living in trauma.
Speaker 1:And you know that makes sense just from my traumatic births, right like yeah that put me in those states Uh-huh, and it took a lot of work to get out of those states. I don't think people ever just realize that, especially like you. So their childhood is just yeah, you have to go to the therapist to do that work.
Speaker 2:Well, and especially people don't realize too, when you start to come out of fight or flight, your hormones start to come down, that Cortisol starts to come down a little bit. It may feel like a depression when you come out of fight or fly because you're so you said like hi, almost correct.
Speaker 2:And so you're used to being hyper vigilant and like what was that sound? What was this, what was that? you're used to walking around on eggshells, it's like primal Yes. And so when you start to come out of that, you may notice I'm tired and sleepy, i'm hungrier than normal. What is going on with me? Well, your brain, honestly, is kind of going into a recovery type mode.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:And so it is gonna feel like a depression. Now I'm not saying that it's not a clinical depression, but if we can associate, we came out of a traumatic experience like someone leaving an abusive marriage. Yeah and the divorce is finalized and they have their own place and all of these things like I'm supposed to be the happiest.
Speaker 1:I'm supposed to be at peace and live my life.
Speaker 2:Well, what's what's next?
Speaker 1:It's because you've lived at that high level of yeah, I mean, people are addicted to that right.
Speaker 2:Oh, that can be for sure. It's a chemical addiction if you really want to get down into the nitty-gritty of it. And so when you look at someone again who like leaves in a abuse of marriage and everything is said and done and they're finally Safe and all those kinds of things, that may say why am I all of a sudden depressed, even though I know that was the right thing to do? It may not actually be clinical depression. It's that you're coming out of fight or flight in your brain needs recovery. Think about it like this if you're in fight or flight mode, it's like running a marathon. Yeah, like you're in it, you don't get a break right you're going, going, going.
Speaker 2:So when someone is done with a marathon, do we expect them to turn around and run ten miles the next day? No no, because they need to rest and recover right same thing with fight or flight. Our brain is running a marathon and when we start to come out of that We need to rest and recover. But it might feel like depression.
Speaker 1:Well, okay, so all that to be said, get in therapy. Yeah, get in therapy, walk this through with a trusted therapist, because you're gonna think I think that's probably how people go back to those situations Is because you're like, well, this is not, they thrive in it right, they thrive in it and then you get out.
Speaker 2:I would say that they're conditioned to it. I take that right?
Speaker 1:well, there's not the correct. It feels natural to them right there are custom, so they don't want to feel that Uncomfortableness of like okay, that's not what I'm used to, but then you don't have someone like a therapist who's telling you this is why you're feeling now depressed, or you feel like While tired, or lost, and you know they always say that children tend to marry someone Like there.
Speaker 2:If it's a man, they marry someone like their mom, or if it's a girl, they marry someone like their dad. Well, if that was abusive when they were growing up, guess what they are more likely? Oh well, to marry someone abusive because that's what they're used to and that makes me even more.
Speaker 1:I want to do the work for my boys you know, Okay, let's, let's keep our therapy still going yes, yeah. Okay, wonderful tip. I feel like that made a lot of people see Okay, the next toolbox tip it's more of a question that we got. Okay, i feel like it's a good tip to talk about is why we spend so much phone time on our phone scrolling Instagram.
Speaker 2:So you know we just talked about fight or flight and a lot of people have heard about that. That does get talked about pretty frequently. We don't really talk about the fawn response.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's break down What is fun.
Speaker 2:Fawn response. Think of it literally like a deer in the headlights.
Speaker 1:No, like I can't freeze a little bit.
Speaker 2:Okay, and so it's easier for us to disengage or disassociate than to deal with what's actually going on. So you know, as moms, we do carry a lot of things. And so let's just say we decide, okay, today's the day to Clean house or whatever, and you go to your kids room and it looks like a bomb went off in there.
Speaker 2:Yeah and you look at it, you're like I don't even know where to begin. I'm so overwhelmed. What do I, you know, make the bed? Do I pick up the toys? What? where do I even begin with all of this stuff? And so it's easier to be like you know what, why don't I just go scroll for a little bit? because I can't deal with this right here, right now. We disengage because we feel overwhelmed, and so, you know, let's just say we spend 15 minutes on Instagram or whatever, and then we come back and we're still overwhelmed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because it doesn't change anything It doesn't change anything, and so we, we tend to retreat. That's a defense mechanism of avoidance as well, and when I say those things, defense mechanisms tend to get a bad rap.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I get why? because you think defense, you think negative but, But at the same time they are involuntary in the beginning. Okay like that, fun responses involuntary. Yeah you're not trying to self sabotage by scrolling Instagram. You're just like I can't do this right now. Wow, and let's also look at the facts. There's so much data and research to back up how social media is designed to be addicted.
Speaker 1:I was gonna say your algorithm, that's personal to you, that they're like oh, whitney clicked on this video, we're gonna send more like that, uh-huh, or the fact that it's the comparison game.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely Keeping up with the Joneses, whether that means that you have the same car, or that your house looks like the same Aesthetic is theirs, or that your kids are doing the same activities as somebody else. All that kind of.
Speaker 1:I mean, let's even break it into. Like you know, it's addiction, right, it's like a numbing.
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 1:I mean, you're getting into escaping, escaping? What do we use to escape sometimes in society? drugs, alcohol, painkillers numbing it. We're numbing it To not face what's reality, and I feel like, as moms too, we are very overwhelmed. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff going on, and Instagram, social media, can just be the thief of joy.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Well, and you know there's also a lot to be said for ADHD paralysis. Yeah that's a. Thing. Yeah and so you know we have these other factors that everybody is susceptible to you. But if you're already struggling with ADHD, if you're already struggling with depression or anxiety, You're more at to get on there fall into that fun response and it just kind of feed itself and be a cycle. Now, that being said, it's not always a bad thing, right to kind of give your phone response a little bit of wiggle room.
Speaker 1:But it shouldn't be like taking over your life And so what I would recommend?
Speaker 2:I don't know if I enjoy to have this, but I know I. Phones have this, where you go in and you do your Screen time limits and you do that per app or just different things on your phone. Yeah or you know if it's one of those again, you go in your kids room and you're like I don't even know where to begin. This is horrible. Blah, blah, blah. You're like I need a breather. Set a timer on your phone for 10 minutes.
Speaker 1:Give yourself that 10 minutes.
Speaker 2:Give yourself that breather. You're allowed to have a breather And so when that happens to you, when your 10 minutes is up, don't go straight back to that one task, yeah, because you're gonna get overwhelmed again. We know that it happened before. Do something small, achievable, that makes you be able to check off that productivity and it boosts your confidence. So it might be loading the dishwasher, that's perfect. It might be swapping the laundry, something That's gonna take a couple of minutes, but it's not too much.
Speaker 1:So give yourself that break, correct. Okay, we'll be back with more tips. That's right. Returnal mental health is as important as physical health. The previous podcast was created for and by moms dealing with post-partum depression in all its variables, like anxiety, anger and even Affinity. Hosted by CEO founder Sarah Parkhurst and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gaye, each episode focus on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum. Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges, as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms. You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time. Please know you're not alone on this journey. We're here to help.