Advocating for Children With Learning Challenges

Sarah 0:09

Hey guys , welcome back to Pre-Vilance Podcast . It's Sarah and Whitney . Okay , so today's a special one .

Whitney 0:15

It is a little bit different .

Sarah 0:16

We have certain episodes that we get vulnerable and personal . That's right , i know I kind of my NICU experience won and I've talked about the daycare . Now it's Whitney's turn .

Whitney 0:26

That's right . So this episode is really going to be about advocating for our children , even if we don't really know how to do that or how to navigate that process . So my older daughter , sydney , she started kindergarten this year about mid August . So about three , three and a half weeks into the school year her teacher had emailed me saying Hey , i just wanted to let you know about some behaviors I'm seeing out of Sydney And it was one of those where she was really struggling to focus . She was kind of a daydreamer or space cadet . She was also trying to sneak her work for other kids to do to help her out with . Okay , you know , she felt very discouraged . There was one picture her teacher sent me with her head on her desk by eight o'clock that morning . She looked so defeated And it was one of those I asked the teacher .

Whitney 1:18

I was like you know , is she having like tantrums ? Is she being belligerent ? You know ? and she wasn't . She wasn't being defiant , she wasn't refusing to do the work , but it was definitely one of those . You could tell that she wasn't focusing a whole lot , that she did not feel confident in her work and that this was just a struggle for her .

Whitney 1:40

Now , that being said , my kids are daycare kids . Sydney had been in daycare since 12 weeks old and did pre-k , yeah , so going to school was not new for her Right . And so I asked the teacher . I said do you feel like this could be an ADD , adhd kind of thing , or is this , you know , a transitionary adjustment period for kindergarten ? Cause , again , she's my first five year old , this is the first time you're doing this , this is the first time I'm doing this .

Whitney 2:08

I don't , honestly , didn't really know what I would be expected of her in kindergarten , yeah , you know . And so I'm looking to her teacher for guidance , and her teacher said well , is something I wanted to make you aware of , but let's just kind of wait and see how things go . And I will say this Her teacher has been fantastic , super hands on , super helpful , but I don't like to wait and see , no , especially when it comes to my kids . Same way . And so I had actually reached out to another therapist that I work with , who works mainly with children , and I said Hey , what are kind of younger kids symptoms of ADD , adhd ? And just from some of the things that she was telling me and some things that I could find online and just being a social worker and knowing these things , we were really kind of ticking off some boxes for ADD and attentive type .

Sarah 2:59

Yeah .

Whitney 2:59

So again , we're not belligerent , no , we're not hostile , We're not refusing . It's really not a behavioral issue , it is a focus and confidence issue . And so with that , i remember calling our pediatricians office and I said , hey , i want to make an appointment for her to get evaluated for ADD . And the way our pediatrician does it , they have these forms from Vanderbilt on there that the parents fill out and that the teacher fills out . That's essentially like a ADD , adhd screening type form , and ideally they want two teachers to fill it out .

Whitney 3:34

But we're kindergarten so we don't have two teachers , so we're rolling with what we got . And so we filled those out , turned them into our pediatrician And all the while Sydney is , you know , and Sydney is honestly a really good kid Like she's not my troublemaker or nothing . You know , we might get a green one day on our behavior chart , but then we'd have a smattering of yellows and an occasional red And I'm like this is just not my child And again you know , keeping in touch with the teacher like it's not belligerent , it's just like she's not focusing , she's not completing her work , all of these things .

Whitney 4:11

So we get into the pediatrician And she said , well , you know , she is still first half of kindergarten could easily be a transitioning adjustment period . One thing that she had brought up to me , because I was mentioning how hard of a time Sydney had with her handwriting , that really seemed to be kind of a key factor And a lot of this was handwriting freestyle , not tracing . And the pediatrician had told me that her son was either in second or third grade when he got diagnosed with ADD in a tentative type and dysgraphia , which is where it's a form of dyslexia , like they know their letters but they spaced them out super far apart . It's like a spatial reasoning issue . Yeah , and she said that in third grade , you know , they took him to a psychologist , got him evaluated , got the diagnosis . At that age they started him on a medication night and day , totally different .

Whitney 5:09

And I did tell our pediatrician as a cheese five . So I don't love the idea of jumping to a medication at this early of an age . Down the road , if we need to , we'll cross that bridge I'm not completely opposed to it , but at five I don't know that . I want that to be my first line of defense . And so I also know that as a therapist like if someone struggles with ADD , adhd stimulants actually help them focus , so I use me oh , drops in my water all the time . They have caffeinated ones small dosages of caffeine . We were making her blue water in the morning .

Sarah 5:45

Yeah .

Whitney 5:45

And guess what ? All of a sudden we have a behavior change , we're bringing home more greens . So I told the pediatrician that . I said it's kind of our own little research here . Yeah , i said , but we implemented this stimulant and all of a sudden we have pretty significant improvement as far as behavior . The writing is still an issue , right , and the focus is a little bit better , right , things of that nature . And so our pediatrician had recommended that we get an OT , which is occupational therapy , on board , get her evaluated through the school's OT , which , if your child is going through the public school system , they most likely have resources like that on hand That you can use , correct And so and they do not have to be in special education to qualify for those things . That being said , because our pediatrician was like she's not autistic , she's not going to qualify for special education services and their traditional all she goes , but OT might be something that we want to look into , strengthen those hand muscles and really start to go that route .

Whitney 6:51

Yeah , i'm here for it , absolutely Here for it . And so the next day I had followed up with the teacher and I said , hey , this is what her pediatrician recommended , that we have OT within the school evaluator and kind of go from there . So the OT actually came in . So I had taken Sydney to the pediatrician , i think on like a Tuesday . I had told the teacher everything on that Wednesday , thursdays , when the OT came and observed her , and then they had some holiday that Friday . So Monday is when I did a conference call with the teacher and the OT , and the OT and her teacher were like she's not autistic , she is not hitting the marks for that at all , please do not worry about that . But also , like her writing is not that bad . They're like , yeah , she could use some OT just to get her letters a little bit better , fine tune it .

Whitney 7:44

Exactly . But for a five year old the OT was like I have some second graders that can't write to this level , And so I thought , okay , good , Maybe this is an OT issue where if we just strengthen those muscles , we're going to be okay . And so what they did was they sent me home a list of different games and activities that we could do at home to work on these fine motor skills . But Sydney doesn't know she's doing work , so to speak . She thinks it's like a fine activity .

Sarah 8:13

She thinks it's a game .

Whitney 8:15

And so , and then our pediatrician also sent a referral into the Children's Hospital of Alabama for just the psychological processing , just to go through that whole evaluation . And they told me they said you know , the referral is good for a year , so it's there if you want it And if you don't know , harm is done . And so with that we were , i felt good because we had a plan from the school of we're going to implement these OT things here And should we feel like we need to go further , then we can open up into what services are available to us through the school . And then also I had a referral in for psychological testing at Children's if I needed it . And so from there on out we started implementing those OT games And Sydney never knew that there was a purpose in that .

Sarah 9:10

She just thought it was something fun to do with her mom .

Whitney 9:11

Yeah , She just thought it was something to do , fun to do , with us . Now I will say the waiting period between turning in those Vandy forms and getting the appointment with the P was about six weeks . It's a process , It is a process And so during those six weeks and honestly even getting up to that point anytime I would mention it to somebody it felt like it got brushed off And that frustrated me to no end , because there's probably something in your gut , oh yeah , and let's be honest , i'm sure it killed you when you saw that picture of her with her head .

Whitney 9:46

That was awful , broke my . I wanted to go get her from school , but true and see like they won't let me , just take her to take her . But I can remember , you know , and again , her teacher has been fantastic . But the well , it's just wait and see . I wanted to make you aware I got frustrated with that because I'm like I don't want to wait and see .

Whitney 10:04

I want to get resources on board as soon As possible , because I know early intervention is the best intervention for anything . Yes , well . And then when I would bring it up with my husband , he's like , well , it shall be fun , she'll be fun , and I'm like you are not as concerned about this as I am , and that's a problem .

Sarah 10:18

It is a problem and we will discuss that problem . Yeah , I was like you do not feel the same way that I feel about this and I feel so invalidated right now , and you're just like I think there's something about Your mama bear coming in your instinct and you know you see it when there's clients that start early with you . Yeah , beginning , and how much progress and yeah , we can and , like you said You did , what so many moms need to hear is you follow through and you even though people were saying hey .

Whitney 10:49

Wendy , it's okay got a little bit of a pushback or may not push back That's the wrong word .

Sarah 10:54

I had a little doing it on purpose .

Whitney 10:56

I felt like I was hitting brick walls .

Sarah 10:59

But you just keep pushing .

Whitney 11:00

Yeah , and we're kid .

Sarah 11:01

So what you think was key and like getting oh .

Advocating for Your Child's Needs

Whitney 11:08

So I think part of it was knowing that Sydney couldn't speak up for herself and you had to be her voice . I had to be her voice . I mean , yes , she's five , she has words , she can communicate . but can she communicate to me that she feels defeated , that she doesn't write as well as some of the other kids ?

Sarah 11:24

No , and that's she probably doesn't even know .

Whitney 11:27

That's why she's feeling defeated like she sees it , but it's like well all the other kids could finish their worksheets or whatever before her and says she feels defeated . So we already have a comparison game happening in kindergarten . That's not okay . That's not how it's supposed to be .

Sarah 11:45

No , with the kindergarten , i mean I can . I can say this too . I've seen it with Will in pre-k . Mm-hmm , he said , someone told me I scribbled , scrambled and it hurt my heart . Uh-huh , and they know They don't do this to be mean either . The teachers , but like you're putting their work up , you can obviously see comparisons .

Whitney 12:08

Absolutely .

Sarah 12:09

You look over and you're like why did so-and-so finish that before me , Kids ?

Whitney 12:14

know that They do Well and it's one of those . our teacher had , i say , hours like she's my teacher Well she is .

Sarah 12:21

Yeah , because that's what you have to think about . Yeah .

Whitney 12:23

Yeah she is your teacher too , because it's your team with the teacher , Absolutely , And so you know we would get pictures through the app throughout the day and there would be so many times where you know they had activities and I had the kids names on them and Sydney's wouldn't be up on the wall and it's because she wouldn't finish them , because she felt so defeated , Oh my God . So again there's that element of comparison , not intentional by the teacher , No , But Sydney can tell well , they finished their stuff before me .

Sarah 12:52

And it's like she can't go home at the end of the day and say , mom , Yeah , i'm struggling .

Whitney 12:57

I don't feel like I'm as good at cutting with scissors or writing , which is fine .

Sarah 13:00

Yeah , exactly . So now , if it's a teenager , that's a whole different ball game . Yeah , different ball game , but we're talking to our younger kids here Yeah , but even if it is a teen and you're noticing something , you push for it .

Whitney 13:11

Oh , absolutely . And here's the thing , And I've always loved our pediatrician , you know , going in when I'm telling her these different things . I can tell the questions that she's asking back of . what are we ruling in and ruling out ?

Sarah 13:24

Yes .

Whitney 13:25

Things of that nature , and so it was one of those .

Sarah 13:29

I felt like our pediatrician welcomed that appointment Yeah they want to know , because they're not going to know , Just like if we go back to anything with our mental health if we don't tell them it's like if we're sick we go to the doctor and say hey , we're having a fever , We're having a cough . So if we're having these difficulties , or our child's having these difficulties , if we don't tell them and go to them for it they just assume we're healthy and our status quo and continually not Correct .

Sarah 13:57

So you have to make the resources work for you guys like Whitney , did You have to go and say it , you have to keep pushing , you have to keep pushing .

Whitney 14:04

And now , never , at any point in time , do I feel like I had to be overly assertive or a Karen . I never , because the teacher did a really good job of communicating with us .

Sarah 14:15

You did a great job of listening .

Whitney 14:17

Yeah , and I will say it's hard to hear that your child struggles because no one wants their child to struggle . No , so did I have to process those emotions ? Yes , i did , but it's weird . It's like I had to grieve a little bit or feel my feelings and be proactive at the same time , because you know which is a challenge Sydney needed you to take action ?

Sarah 14:38

Yes , absolutely , because she wasn't processing her feelings , so you had to do the whole work Exactly . And that's what we have to do when we advocate for our kids . Is , i mean , and we're talking about , sydney's going to be perfect and she's going to be fine , and she is . And we're talking about all extremes here is like when you're advocating for your child they're being bullied , is it if ?

Whitney 14:57

you think something's being ? delayed If you think they have ?

Sarah 15:00

an allergy that's not being recognized . Anything You have to , like Whitney said , process your own grief . Yeah , you're allowed to Voice journal . let it out . Talk to someone and say I am so upset that there could even be something wrong with her .

Whitney 15:15

That was me , As I was like where did I go wrong ? Did I do something wrong in my pregnancy ?

Sarah 15:19

Did I do something wrong ? Did I fail my child ? Did I not see it ? Am I too busy that I didn't know this ?

Whitney 15:25

Yes , So there was a lot of emissions . I had to go through and process with that , in addition to being proactive and advocating on her behalf And you were probably , honestly , there's part of you that's scared a little bit . Oh , absolutely Of what ?

Sarah 15:40

those results were going to be .

Whitney 15:42

Well , yeah , who wouldn't be ? And so you're just like And then you know , all of a sudden we see almost night and day difference of we're struggling , we're struggling . Okay , now let's implement some OT games to help her . And then boom , All of a sudden we're getting pinks , we're getting greens , we're getting really good behavioral colors . Yeah , Her handwriting is getting better every single day in her notebook that she brings him .

Sarah 16:06

I'm like Okay , so it was a muscle thing in addition to confidence confidence and someone even just saying To you I just , i keep going back to that picture . Mm-hmm , it was so sad , it was awful and it's something that you can always hold on to mm-hmm and know and tell her .

Whitney 16:26

Oh yeah and say look what you overcome and here's the thing right now She does not have a diagnosis of ADD . That's not to say that down the road that that diagnosis couldn't take place right . However , i feel better prepared to navigate that for her right . I know some of the resources available to us through the school system . I know her pediatrician is on board . So , right , three , four , five years down the road , if we feel like we're dealing with this again , you know what . I know what we need to do now . I know to get those forms off their website .

Sarah 16:58

So and get that started immediately break it down for them . What did you do first ? You process your feelings . Yeah , I process my feelings . You accepted what was being told to you . I think that's a little bit .

Whitney 17:09

I dug a little bit of is this a normal transitionary period for kindergarten , right ? Or do you think that this could be ADD ? right , was told . Well , let's just wait and see , but I really needed you to be aware of it is what her teacher told me . So I'm over here thinking , okay , i want more than that . So what's our ? next , so then I started digging a little bit . You know Google . I'm not a huge fan of dr Google because they can't go down .

Whitney 17:35

Rather I can but I started just looking for , you know , add in young children , so being informed being informed kind of looking at things , not saying it's an absolute , because it's not right , but being more informed , more updated , taking that information and saying , okay , sydney is checking some of these boxes Calling the pediatrician , so go to your pediatrician go to the pediatrician .

Sarah 17:59

When we're young age kids or even like up to teens . They're a key like thinking them as a core person in your support for your kids . That's correct You don't feel like that for them . Find a different pd .

Whitney 18:09

Absolutely So , went to the pediatrician and they guided us . Our pediatrician has forms online that she can print off And it's through Vanderbilt , you know the parents and the teachers . They fill it out and , from what our teacher told us is , they had to send it directly to the pediatrician , which I assume is so like we couldn't alter it , which I completely get . So I did have to sign a release of information for the school to communicate with the pediatrician . I'm fine with that , that's .

Sarah 18:35

HIPAA . If you're hearing this and you're like that's a lot , call your pediatrician's office .

Whitney 18:39

They will have a nurse , they'll have yes , they'll have someone to guide you through it , and help you through it .

Sarah 18:44

So , don't feel like that . So just know , call your pete .

Whitney 18:47

They will guide you through what their process is and they'll help you . Is everybody's different ?

Sarah 18:51

Yes , everybody's different . Then who did you turn to ? there was the teacher good at school about knowing like ot or this and that , so A little bit of both so when we went to the pediatrician .

Whitney 19:01

She was the one that recommended ot , and so she said you know , with it being the public school system , that we should have ot available to us , at least just to observe Sydney . So who actually got ?

Sarah 19:14

you in contact with them , the teacher , so .

Whitney 19:17

After the pediatrician appointment , I reached out to her teacher and said hey , this is how the appointment went . This is what the pediatrician recommended . How do we go about getting in contact with the ot in the school system So your child's teacher should the next be a core person ?

Sarah 19:32

and yes And if you feel like that that relationship is not good , you can go as a guidance counselor .

Whitney 19:37

You really can go to the principal , absolutely go to other teachers if your kid has multiple teachers . Yeah , And so with that , she said you know I'm not 100% sure , Let me reach out to our special education department and I'll keep you posted . I'm good with that answer .

Sarah 19:53

Why don't you look at our dancer instead of shutting me down and saying I don't know , We can work on it Absolutely , and so I mean literally .

Whitney 19:59

The next day she had OT in there looking at her and had communicated that with me .

Whitney 20:05

So use the resources that are in the schools in your facilities in the day care you have but and if any point you didn't feel like this was right for Sydney or you felt like something was off , you would have said it Absolutely So you it's funny you mentioned daycare , because I even because she does after school care at the same place she did preschool at and it's the same place that our younger daughter does daycare I even went to them and I said , hey , this was never really made an issue when she did pre-K last year , but did y'all ever see anything similar to this ? What'd they say ? Not really . They said occasionally she could take a little bit longer to do her coloring sheets . Wasn't like nothing that was alarming , right ? Nothing that you know raised red flags or anything of that nature . Um , cause Sydney really didn't get yellows and reds in pre-K . Occasionally she'd get a yellow cause she'd play at nap time , but you know nothing . That was like crazy for a four year old . You know what I ?

Sarah 20:59

mean . So you did your history , you went to your background . I think the most thing that and we can do more episodes about this and we're actually going to bring on a special guest that kind of helps .

Whitney 21:07

That's going to be so cool .

Sarah 21:08

But take this from Whitney is that we're all . We're moms , we're navigating the unknown together .

Whitney 21:13

I was about to say we don't always have to know what to do And sometimes we're winging it , And that's why we have pediatricians , teachers , school resources to guide us .

Sarah 21:23

You're not in this alone No . Ask your friends if they've been down this route .

Whitney 21:27

Mm , hmm , absolutely .

Sarah 21:28

No , this is encouragement . You're in it together .

Whitney 21:31

Oh yeah , i'm proud of you .

Sarah 21:31

I'm always am , but you're a great mom .

Whitney 21:33

We were winging it , but hey we it worked out . She's doing great . Yeah , she went back to school yesterday and got a pink . Hey , we'll take those pink days Oh absolutely .

Sarah 21:43

All right Till next time .

Whitney 21:44

Right .

Sarah 21:44

See ya Returnal . mental health is as important as physical health . The previous podcast was created for and by moms dealing with post-partum depression in all its variables , like anxiety , anger and even apathy . Hosted by CEO founder Sarah Parkhurst and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay , each episode focused on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum . Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges , as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms . You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time . Please know you're not alone on this journey . We're here to help .