Previa Alliance Podcast
There are few experiences as universal to human existence as pregnancy and childbirth, and yet its most difficult parts — perinatal mood and anxiety disorders (PMADs) — are still dealt with in the shadows, shrouded in stigma. The fact is 1 in 5 new and expecting birthing people will experience a PMAD, yet among those who do many are afraid to talk about it, some are not even aware they’re experiencing one, and others don’t know where to turn for help. The fact is, when someone suffers from a maternal mental health disorder it affects not only them, their babies, partners, and families - it impacts our communities.
In the Previa Alliance Podcast series, Sarah Parkhurst and Whitney Gay are giving air to a vastly untapped topic by creating a space for their guests — including survivors of PMADs and healthcare professionals in maternal mental health — to share their experiences and expertise openly. And in doing so, Sarah and Whitney make it easy to dig deep and get real about the facts of perinatal mental health, fostering discussions about the raw realities of motherhood. Not only will Previa Alliance Podcast listeners walk away from each episode with a sense of belonging, they’ll also be armed with evidence-based tools for healing, coping mechanisms, and the language to identify the signs and symptoms of PMADs — the necessary first steps in a path to treatment. The Previa Alliance Podcast series is intended for anyone considering pregnancy, currently pregnant, and postpartum as well as the families and communities who support them.
Sarah Parkhurst
Previa Alliance Podcast Co-host; Founder & CEO of Previa Alliance
A postpartum depression survivor and mom to two boys, Sarah is on a mission to destigmatize the experiences of perinatal mood and anxiety disorders (PMADs), and to educate the world on the complex reality of being a mom. Sarah has been working tirelessly to bring to light the experiences of women who have not only suffered a maternal mental health crisis but who have survived it and rebuilt their lives. By empowering women to share their own experiences, by sharing expert advice and trusted resources, and by advocating for health care providers and employers to provide support for these women and their families, Sarah believes as a society we can minimize the impact of the current maternal mental health crisis, while staving off future ones.
Whitney Gay
Previa Alliance Podcast Co-host; licensed clinician and therapist
For the past ten years, Whitney has been committed to helping women heal from the trauma of a postpartum mental health crisis as well as process the grief of a miscarriage or the loss of a baby. She believes that the power of compassion paired with developing critical coping skills helps moms to heal, rebuild, and eventually thrive. In the Previa Alliance Podcast series, Whitney not only shares her professional expertise, but also her own personal experiences of motherhood and recovery from grief.
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Previa Alliance Podcast
It Is Not Us... It Is The Kids
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60% of couples report relationship strain after kids…from the new roles, demands, and ultimate new person now added to your life-things can feel tense. Listen in as Sarah & Whitney talk through common relationship challenges after baby. Sometimes it is a nice reminder that it is not you…it is the kids.
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Relationship Challenges After Having Kids
Speaker 1Hey guys , welcome back to Preview Alliance Podcast . This is Sarah and Whitney . Okay , fun episode today , guys . It's titled , we can all relate . It's not us , it's the kids , it is we , you know , they are the fire of the dumpster , fire of my life .
Speaker 2I love them .
Speaker 1It is . It's a topic that I think on social media , if you just looked at it right Like people hit and home about it , but they're still going to post their perfect relationship post and oh , we're doing these date nights , the kids didn't change us , yeah , and you're like I know that's a lie . So it's actually researched . Okay , there's research from bringing baby home program that showed that almost two thirds of couples reported a decline in relationship satisfaction up to three years after having a baby . Whitney , how old are your girls ?
Speaker 2I have a six year old and a two and a half , almost three year old , three in August .
Speaker 1And I have a just newly two baby , james . That's right . So it will be five in August and a hundred percent , this is verified research that approved . That we can confirm . We can confirm that you are going to face relationship challenges Once these little love mugs come into our lives . From newborn to toddler to now Whitney's in post kindergarten . She's getting into elementary school years . Honestly , six is pretty good . We were talking this morning that you know my oldest , which could convince her to have a several more right now , if I could clone that one .
Speaker 2Yes , my two year old . She is a force to be reckoned with .
Speaker 1Our youngest are savages .
Speaker 2Yes , what is it with these COVID babies ? They are built different , I'm telling you . She got mad at me this morning because I wouldn't let her have a popsicle for breakfast . And then when I went to go get dressed this morning , my husband let her have some chips . I didn't want to end up in a dandy , but she wanted the whole party size bag and got mine a lot . And then she got mad because I wouldn't let her take the whole party size bag of Doritos in my car .
Speaker 1What are you ? What kind of mom are you ? Abusive ?
Speaker 2apparently I'm telling you .
Speaker 1Well , I mean , but this brings up , okay , this brings up some things , right . So , like pre babies , you and Michael , you got up say good morning , had your coffee . You know if you wanted your devotional time , you're in low time , you worked out you got ready .
Speaker 1So did you , he did him . Yeah , you were a team , yeah , it was easy . So here comes children , and maybe those little things that each of you did before you know . Give them a pass , whatever didn't irritate you . You know he may have missed the laundry basket for the thousandth time .
Speaker 2That does get out of the basket , you know and then , or your socks don't need to be next to the hamper , they can be in the hamper .
Speaker 1You know , he forgets some things . You're like oh , it's okay .
Speaker 2Right , it's whatever , it is whatever .
Speaker 1And you're still getting sleep , You're still having that time for conversation . You know you've not had these boundary talks because in-laws come involved . You haven't had the who's taken off work when the kid gets sick . You haven't had all that . Now , quickly , I like to say , a partnership becomes a triangle .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1And things get wonky Mm-hmm .
Speaker 2It's not as streamlined as it used to be .
Speaker 1It's not . And now this little baby , let's talk . Newborn stage depends on mom mostly Okay . I don't care how you're feeding . Oh yeah , it's going to be you , and you start noticing a role shift right and your basic life functions becomes something you have to ask for permission for yeah or get up early before the rest of the household to get it accomplished . I mean you find yourself seeing ridiculous things , like I'm going to the bathroom .
Speaker 2Yeah , don't let them unalive themselves for the next 30 seconds .
Speaker 1I need to shower , yeah , or can I have two seconds to eat , please , without someone on me ? So this hey , good morning turns to . I am going to the bathroom .
Speaker 2You're screaming for like .
Speaker 1I need my time . Like it's like an airplane pilot thing . Like eyes , I have eyes . Ok , now , whitney , your eyes . Like you have these kind of weird , obvious things that you're noticing , that you're going to fight about things that you have never fought about before . One of me and Bill's recent fights that we had that I mean ridiculous . Ok , baby James pooped in the bathtub .
Speaker 2And it happens , it's never pleasant .
Speaker 1OK so . But you know why we fought Whitney , why ? Ok , this is wild , wild to me . I'm a seasoned pro of how to clean poop out of the bathtub . Got it ? Bill is not OK . So he came home and he had Baby James , had just literally pooped . Well , listen , I was like getting well out , getting the shower going . I was getting Baby James out and like , can you get the poop out of the bathtub ?
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1OK , this is how this man tried to get the poop out of the bathtub .
Speaker 2You have some feels about this .
Speaker 1I'm still really upset about it .
Speaker 2I haven't processed it .
Speaker 1I can tell and I'm like I take a solo cup and I do a scoop method If it's large , easy , and then I drain , then I clean .
Speaker 2Yeah , and just toss the cup .
Speaker 1Uh-huh , whitney , he thought he would just add water to like dissolve the poop , to make it all go down the drain . I was like what kind of psycho bath am I married to ? And so then it becomes me to him criticizing and saying he can't do anything right , even cleaning the bathtub , and the kids are like in the shower fighting , trying , you know , because Will's convinced now poop's in his hair , you know it's going to go absorb through his skin , like into his blood .
Speaker 2We took it to a level .
Speaker 1And we're arguing how the bathtub should have been cleaned in that moment . Ok , so how quickly life changes and you put that , how ridiculous it is . We both stood on opposite sides of it . It was very convicted in how we thought it should have been handled , and if you would have told pre-kid Sarah and Bill that we would be having a fight about poop in the tub , we'd be like not us .
Speaker 2That's crazy . That's crazy , that's not us .
Speaker 1You know , we don't fight over little things . We don't fight over little things , we talk things through , we share responsibilities . All this to say , and pre-kids , you did Pre-kids you did Pre-kids that was the case . I mean , I think it's too right . Like what changes is now your sensory overload ?
Speaker 2You're tapped out .
Speaker 1You're touched out , the noises , the lack of sleep , so like your normal baseline is like exhausted , and we're not talking just baby Tallers , brutal , even older kids . You're running the million ways . Mom , why , mom , can I ? And then here comes your partner and maybe they want to come for a hug or kiss at the end of the day and you have like I am touched out .
Speaker 1Yeah , I have a loose moment , that one touch from them sends you spiraling or you do that kind of turn away and they're just like what was that about ? Because they haven't seen you all day . They also haven't seen the gazillion things that have came at you , so they take it personally . And so now I've had two things to a lot of podcast therapy episodes . I'll call it Learn to express . I am sensory overloaded right now .
Speaker 2I'm touched out .
Speaker 1I've had a kid on my head . I've had someone in my face or ear All day , all day , literally all day . This ain't a you thing . I need to ground . I haven't had a second to ground . Sarah hasn't done her ice .
Speaker 2I haven't stepped outside , I haven't hummed .
Speaker 1I haven't gargled . I haven't done anything . You probably haven't showered . I haven't showered . If I had used the restroom , the children were involved in it .
Speaker 2Oh yes , you know , like they're there . It's a team effort , it's a team effort .
Speaker 1So now I just don't think we're talking about it enough that the relationship's gonna change . How couldn't it ? Yeah ?
Speaker 2well , exactly that's the thing Change is inevitable , and especially when you're talking about something like kids , that is earth shattering .
Speaker 1And you don't go back . That's what I tell everybody . They're like oh , I can't wait to have kids . I'm like that's great , I'm excited for you . Just let you know you don't go back . Like your life for four kids is never coming to you . They're always gonna be there in your heart , in your mind and something . Now we're in the trenches , okay , we get this , and I don't wanna hear you're gonna miss these days , okay .
Speaker 2I'm sure I will , but at the same time I don't know that I'm going to miss my child laying in the floor crying because I won't wanna have a popsicle for breakfast . No , I mean , I don't think I'm going to miss that part of these days .
Speaker 1We just got back from the beach and maybe James along himself on the boardwalk hot , sweaty sand , did not wanna move , so then I had to . The gentle parenting did not work in that situation , honestly , I didn't even try , picked up the football position and just said we're going .
Speaker 1And everybody's looking at me like I've kidnapped . I'm like do you think I would kidnap the child that's having a tantrum ? No , I would not . This is what we call a tough love people . Yeah , but then you also start having a war of in your mind I did this , he didn't do that .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1You keep track .
Speaker 2The comparison game you keep tallies .
Speaker 1Why was up five times last night ? You snored . Why I've called out five times for work this month ? Because the kids are sick ?
Speaker 2Yeah , I did your turn .
Speaker 1Like . Then it comes a tit for tat which you never used to have that . Or it's a situation where , like we said , let's go back to the laundry basket . Oh , they could never throw it in the laundry basket . I mean , what is it where they can't Like ? What more ?
Speaker 2do you need ? If it's literally lying next to the hamper , why can't you move it a millimeter ?
Speaker 1Or the dish in the sink when it could be in the dishwasher . That's like one more step .
Speaker 2Why are ?
Speaker 1you reading my mind ? Well , because we're the same person . That's true , you know . And then then the common thing I hear is well , just what do you need ? Or tell me what to get done , and then you're just like I shouldn't have to tell you .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's one of those you're like . It doesn't actually take off of my mental load if I have to go through 20 things that I need you to help me with . I could have done it .
Speaker 1I could have done it , and then it just makes me be like more angry . Why did you not know ? We do this every single day this way . So again , I think little things become big things Because we are sensory overloaded . We have not crashed course into parenting and we're not alone if two-thirds of couples are taking what ? Three years to kind of figure it out . And the odds are you're going to have another child .
Speaker 2I was just thinking that you're going to have an additional child , or you're going to try to write mock infertility or have a loss or whatever .
Speaker 1So it's going to be a cycle as soon as you get out of the fog , you tend to forget how bad and how hard it is .
Navigating Parenthood
Speaker 2And then when we jump back in and we're like , ooh , what have I done to myself ?
Speaker 1And you're having to learn to . Even last night we were trying to have a simple it wasn't even important what we were trying to have a conversation about but he would say two words and dad , mom did it , or like yes , and so then you can't even have a conversation together . And then that time when you do , you're exhausted . Yes , and you're in your mind you're ready to fight over the things . The little things will set you off . So if you're listening to this and you're pregnant , you're like , oh my gosh , this sounds wonderful .
Speaker 2I've done it myself .
Speaker 1Let's talk about things you can do prior . Ok , so what we should have done , and we'll even go back to when you're trying to get pregnant . Right , you need to have open conversation . Things are going to change . I never had that conversation .
Speaker 2We should have had that conversation .
Speaker 1We didn't either , and you need to also just kind of know it might not be easy to get pregnant or may not look like you thought In your head start thinking when a baby comes . We're talking childcare . We're talking about post-partum recovery . We're talking boundaries , families , job switches , moving . I mean , have an uncomfortable conversation and say how are we going to handle this ?
Speaker 1Yeah exactly so . When you do get pregnant , you even start feeling the shift of responsibilities Because we're sick . Now Hello , first trimester we're tired , we're carrying the baby . Physical intimacy , maybe slowly going out the door because you're throwing up 15 times a day it's not a priority . It's not a priority when trying to get pregnant . It probably was .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1So he's like wait what happened .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1And the more pregnant you get , the less you will want it , the less you'll want it .
Speaker 2You've got postpartum where you're recovering .
Speaker 1Yeah , I mean it's .
Speaker 2Your body has literally gave birth one of two ways you are recovering .
Speaker 1You're recovering and we've said this before six weeks checkup is not the green light for everything , just to resume back because you're leaking , you're bleeding . All the things , all the things , even like the mental load to get ready for baby , falls on mom . Right yeah , the baby restree like talking to the family .
Speaker 2Watching the clothes .
Speaker 1The clothes , the telling her work about her leave she's going to . She has to physically go to the OB's office a zillion times right Like to figure out insurance that starts the kind of invisible load which he's thinking about it , but she , it's her body .
Speaker 2Well it's . I had to say it's her responsibility because , guess what ? It's her maternity leave .
Speaker 1She's trying to set herself up .
Speaker 2He can't file that for her no , and as far as insurance she's the patient , so he could call Blue Cross , viva , united , whomever , but she's the one , but she's the patient and then she's the one who has to give birth , correct .
Speaker 1So you , it already starts and like he can go out and still and do his thing . He's not going to be tired , he's not going to feel like you know , his bladder is going to explode so it starts shifting , yeah , and I just don't think they're going to get it . Even how many , I mean , there's never going to get it .
Speaker 1So , lean into your friends who've been there , done that there , and then you really strongly in pregnancy , you have to have these conversations . What are you going to expect in the postpartum period Exactly ? And that is like how am I going to get sleep ? Let's talk about postpartum depression , postpartum anxiety . What could that look like for me Exactly ? What are you going to do if I start showing these symptoms ? Yeah , who's my safe person ? I need to go ahead . If I'm struggling in pregnancy , I think again , it goes back to like her anxiety or her depression , which we know 50% of moms experience , recognizing that , getting therapy and getting talking to her doctor yeah , so when baby comes , you ideally have had these hard conversations . So when you snappy at each other , yeah , okay , that doesn't mean we're deteriorating . We'll never be the same . Correct , this is expected .
Speaker 2It's a process to get back to where you were . There is a really good book , and they also have cards , so you can kind of get either one , but it's called Fair Play .
Speaker 1I love that book .
Speaker 2It's a really good one because it hits it objectively . It's not like I do blah , blah , blah , blah blah and you do nothing . It's okay . Well , what task are we talking about ? What are all the things that go into that task ? Yeah , so a really good example of that would be meal planning , slash grocery shopping . So you may be thinking , okay , well , we're going to do tacos one night , we'll do chicken parm one night , one night of takeout , we'll do pizza another night , and then we'll do chicken casserole one night . Okay , you can write that on your calendar . But then it's like okay , I need to make sure I get spaghetti , I get rice , I get chicken , I get ground beef Right , I get all of the taco fixings , I get blah , blah , blah blah , plus your staples that you normally get , so like milk , tea , juice , fruit , all those things that go along with it , and even if you do one more pickup , like we do , because it makes our life significantly easier .
Speaker 2Love that . You know you're still going through . Okay , do I have all of this ? Are we running low on shampoo ? Do we need more laundry detergent ? Do we need paper products ? All of those things are running through your head . So when you list it out , it's like oh yeah , even grocery pickup is way more involved than we give it credit for . There's so much mental load of it there is , and so the reason I suggest either the cards or the book for fair play is you go through all of that and you say , okay , this is actually what it entails . How can we divvy this ?
Speaker 1out . I think a good example , too , is like take out the trash . Yes , you need to replace the trash bag liner . There's you have to do start to end of a task for it truly to be completed .
Speaker 2It's so funny . I break up Instagram a lot , but there are some actually really good accounts out there and one of them talked about how did you close out the task .
Speaker 1I love that I talked about how you know .
Speaker 2one night the husband said , hey , I'm going to bathe the kids , you just take a chance to chill . Great Fabulous . He goes bathe the kids , get them in G and M's . You know . Let's just say you split bedtime 50-50 because we do that in our household Michael gets the older one , I've got the younger one , just because that's how it works for us right now . But then they talked about the next morning . The wife got up to go get a shower and there's toys all over the tub .
Speaker 2So there she is having to pick up toys and she's like okay , thank you for doing 80% of the work . It's not that I dismissed that or don't appreciate that , but it still kind of shows me well , shoot , if I had just done it myself , I wouldn't have to do this now , first thing in the morning , when we're going to be shorter on time and it's like things like that Resitment . You get angry , so close out the task .
Speaker 1Oh , I love that phrase .
Speaker 2Yeah , closing out .
Speaker 1That , I think , makes them , I think it makes you feel like why do I even ask or why do you even do it ? I still have to do something , yeah . And they're like , oh , I'm trying . So you have to have that awkward conversation and say , yeah , I need you to close the task .
Speaker 2Yeah , right , and I recognize and appreciate your help . Can we work on closing out the task fully ?
Speaker 1So that is the thing .
Speaker 2Let's just say , like if that was Michael and I , you know . Let's just say that roles are reversed , though . Let's just say I made the kids we do . Bedtime is routine . He gets up , but I've left the bath to wheeze in there . I didn't close out the task , kind of thing . Yeah then he can come to me and say hey , I appreciate you doing blah , blah , blah , blah blah . However , I need you to close out the task . Okay , cool . But she says are there's a task he hasn't closed out ?
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2So there's probably something that I do and I don't close out the task . He probably does something . It doesn't close out the task .
Speaker 1I'm gonna say I'm pretty sure you close out task .
Speaker 2I try to , but you know what I'm human ?
Speaker 1Uh-huh , I'll give you a 99.9 , though yeah , I know you , it's the enneagram one in me , uh-huh . But you bring a point that we're not all perfect . Yeah , we're not all perfect we all almost need that reminder and we have lines fights , right . Yeah , like you know , like there's things that , oh yeah , that could be one percent that we don't do .
Speaker 2Yeah , naturally I'm going to think that my way is the best way , because that's how I'm wired . We're humans . We always think our way is the best way .
Speaker 1But our partner is why we fell in love with them . To start with , right , they bring something to our lives . Yes , that and our perspective that we don't have on our own , that it complements , and so one of the best Advice I ever got through this was it's not a you against him , it's a we versus them . Yeah , and them could be the world shores , it could be the children some days , honestly , because you have to go to battle together . There's enough coming at you as a couple yeah two are stronger than one .
Speaker 1That Refraining what like . If we're in an argument , I need to be fighting for us versus the Sarah when yeah now does that happen ?
Speaker 1No , no , do I try , yes , and do I go back and say I've had to eat humble pie a lot and say I Felt this , I I apologize if I came across as that . Yeah , you know , and I'm gonna own it and try to be better . Yeah , now I'll . We've been transparent . We had to go to a rage room when baby James was yeah , cuz we were angry at each other and we're like what have we done ?
Speaker 1Yeah things have shifted so bad from one to two , but I think showing up to each other and saying this is hard . Yeah , we're changing . Yeah , and knowing you will get back to a version of you at some point . Oh yeah , it gonna be a minute , oh yeah , and there will be things . Like I said , you will have fights over . Yeah why did you not get the poop out of bathtub the right way ?
Speaker 2Admittedly , though , unless and this is probably a gross thing to say , but listen , like diarrhea , like it was not . When I know it was just like we can't add more water to it . Thank you .
Speaker 1I feel I've actually pulled people on this . I've not let it go either . That's the thing you every should do . We got to let this go . Yeah , I guess I let it go . I didn't let it go , but you know , it's just not you guys , though they're feeling this like this is us too . We experienced this , we go through this . Yeah , I mean , do I yell at him when he's pooping for 50,000 minutes ?
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah and go .
Speaker 1Why are we doing this ?
Speaker 2Yeah , cuz you're out there just saying sos , I'm drowning .
Speaker 1Do I call my friends , do I send messages out and say , young , what have we done ? Yeah , yeah , does he probably think the same thing ? Yeah , but do I love him and now I get to see good moments ? Yes , yeah , are we gonna like charge on ? Absolutely . But this I think you have to remind your guys , and you know , date night , so crucial . Yes , a newborn stage it can be hard . But do it and realize that you're gonna like have that moment when you're together and you look at me like it's still us .
Speaker 1Yeah , it's the kids , it's them Mm-hmm , we're still okay .
Speaker 2Yeah , they threw kerosene on the fire . Uh-huh , we had a lovely little campfire , and then here comes the kerosene .
Speaker 1Yeah , so just remind yourself it's your two-thirds . You're with us , mm-hmm , and the people that say it hasn't changed after kids liars liars . So we're here , so hug your partner . Yeah , this two shall pass and just know we're all in it .
Speaker 2Yeah , it gets . It does get better as the kids get older . Mm-hmm , I can confirm with my oldest . Yeah , wait for the second to you know . Pick it up here a little bit .
Speaker 1We need . We need Whitney's second to give us good content though . That she has that's why she's here . All right guys , till next time .
Speaker 2See ya .
Maternal Mental Health
Speaker 1Maternal mental health is as important as physical health . The previous podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression in all its variables , like anxiety , anger and even Affid . Hosted by CEO founder Sarah Parkers and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gaye , each episode focus on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum . Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges , as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms . You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time . Please know you're not alone on this journey . We're here to help .