Navigating Grief While Parenting

Speaker 1 0:10

Hey guys , welcome back to the Preview Alliance podcast . This is Sarah and Whitney , so today's topic little more heavy . But you know Whitney has shared in our past videos and podcast that grief has been unfortunate part of your journey .

Speaker 2 0:26

It's been a big theme .

Speaker 1 0:28

How many months ?

Speaker 2 0:29

I mean since the first death , five months since hospice care and things like that were introduced to our family . That was August , so we're looking at about seven months , yeah .

Speaker 1 0:42

I was going to say it's , and then , even before , that it's almost been like a year of just knowing things were coming to some extent than others . So , yeah , it brought up a good question of how do you grieve while still being ?

Speaker 2 0:55

a mom , and how ? Because I do have my older daughter , who was six now , but she was five when all of this was happening . How do you explain grief and death to a five year old in a way that can semi comprehend it , but you're not traumatizing them or making them fearful of things ? And I do not call myself an expert in grief education for children . I'm a mom winging it Right Now .

Speaker 2 1:25

It's ironic because grief has actually been one of the areas of therapy that I have almost found a niche , and part of that comes from being in labor and delivery for as long as I was and having to help moms grieve the loss of a child , whether it was miscarriage , a stillbirth , neonatal loss . I had a friend whose boys had a rare genetic disorder and they died just a couple of weeks after they turned a year old , so things of that nature . So it's weird how grief was already almost there , like from a clinical and professional standpoint , and then 2022 was like oh , hold my cup , I got you , I got you . We're really going to put you to the test here . So , that being said , as a therapist I had my own therapist that I saw regularly . Ish , I want to say maybe about once every two to three weeks , give or take a little bit , and so again , I'm a therapist . So yes , I am biased with this , but there's no shame in having a therapist as a therapist .

Speaker 2 2:29

I had my own therapist that I really relied on during those times , because what else was I going to do , because my husband was grieving as well . So I guess we'll start from the beginning of it all , which was almost a year ago . It was either last April or May where , several years ago , my dad had been diagnosed with prostate cancer . It was stage one , very slow moving . So he would go in every six months and have scans done and once a year would have a biopsy done . He had had his yearly biopsy done and they said , okay , it's starting to spread more , we're going to have to do some type of an intervention , whether it be radiation , whether it be a prostatectomy , which is where they remove the prostate radiation seeds was an option , things like that . So he was actually having to face doing some type of an intervention to stop the cancer , which obviously is unnerving , because I was 35 at the time . I'm 36 now and my dad was 64 . And I've always kind of viewed my dad as very invincible , very strong guy , like literally hit , watched him build my childhood house that we grew up in for several years . So the thought of oh like this is actually posing a real risk at this time . That was a lot to take on .

Speaker 2 3:52

And about that same time , literally in that same phone call that my parents are telling me and my sister about this , my grandfather so my mom's dad had been diagnosed with a very aggressive form of prostate cancer . Now , that being said , he was 92 years old at the time , so surgery was not a great option for him because of anesthesia Bye . Luckily for my grandfather , he was eligible for the immunotherapy . So it was a shot that they would give him every about every two to three months , and essentially the goal of that was to stop the growth or the spread of the cancer . And at 92 years old , that's really our best case scenario , right ? And so with that I was like , okay , well , you know , that's not terrible , but again , keeping into perspective , he's 92 .

Speaker 1 4:36

Yeah .

Speaker 2 4:36

And so I thought , okay , well , we've got about a year left with Poppy . That was kind of my mentality was it would be this spring . So this current timeframe and years ago I don't even remember how long ago it was my husband's stepdad , whom my youngest daughter is actually named , after he was diagnosed with Parkinson's several years ago . We're talking like very much pre COVID . I mean , probably seven or eight years ago he got diagnosed with Parkinson's . Well , around I want to say it was baby June of last year we went and visited them and I started noticing his tremors were a lot more severe , a lot more noticeable and I thought , okay , well , his Parkinson's is really starting to advance at this time . And we actually went out to eat for his birthday in late July and he was starting to use a cane and I thought , okay , like we can see this decline , but mentally , like he was still there and you think , okay , he's in his late seventies using a cane , but this probably is not imminent . Again , in my head I thought we got a couple of years .

Speaker 1 5:35

Yeah .

Speaker 2 5:35

So , mind you , we have , like my dad's advancing diagnosis a pretty significant diagnosis for my grandfather , and then seeing my father-in-law's Parkinson's advance . We're having a lot of anticipatory grief with this . So , in August of 2022 , my husband's stepdad was placed into hospice care , not because they thought his death was imminent , but so my mother-in-law could have more resources . Because , in this goes back to my case management days hospice care covers equipment . You don't have to pay out of pocket for that stuff .

Speaker 1 6:07

Hospice covers a lot more than traditional Home health .

Speaker 2 6:11

And that was the purpose of it . That's why the neurologist was like we're writing for hospice , but keep in mind , we don't believe that he has a six month prognosis .

Speaker 1 6:19

It's just unfortunate that you have to play these games to work this this time .

Speaker 2 6:24

But at the same time , people like him Need it . I mean , yes , well , it's appropriate .

Speaker 2 6:29

I'm just going to say that he was also a veteran , so I'm like he has given so much like , yes , let's , let's do what we got to do , kind of thing . So about the time , though , that he was placed into hospice , my mom started noticing that my grandfather started just seeming to get weaker , being very clumsy , falling frequently . Now , mind you , he also had really poor vision he had . His vision has been getting worse for many , many years . We've known that for quite some time . So we were like , is this a vision issue ? What's up with this ?

Speaker 2 6:59

Okay , so literally the same day that my dad went in for his surgery for his prostate cancer , my aunt took my grandfather to the doctor , because back in the spring he had shingles , and they just kept thinking , oh , they're getting infected , they're getting infected Finally got around to getting referred to a dermatologist . Don't ask me why it took that long , I don't know . It's a whole work or more , where the medical social worker and may have to kind of sit back a little bit , because I was fit to be tied Because so many things were not done the way that I thought they should have been done and the way that Birmingham hospitals and doctors would have done things . So , in that appointment with the dermatologist . They diagnosed him with squamous cell carcinoma , which is a form of skin cancer , and it was fairly advanced . So they sent him for a PET scan . The PET scan actually showed that the squamous cell had not infiltrated his organs or bones yet and they were going to put him on a medication to kind of again slow the progression of it .

Speaker 2 8:02

Blah , blah , blah . But in that PET scan they found pneumonia in the lower lobes of his lungs and I thought , well , that can explain this fatigue , that can explain , honestly , the clumsiness . Yeah , because again , pneumonia brings so much fatigue , especially with older population . Absolutely , nominia is no joke with a healthy person , but you're talking a 92 year old man . It's a lot , it's a lot . And he had also started to have some hallucinations . But he was aware of his hallucinations .

Speaker 1 8:30

Yeah .

Speaker 2 8:31

Like he told my mom one time he goes well , there's my old cat over there , and he goes , and I know she's not here , but I see her . And my mom was like well , do you want me to do anything ?

Speaker 1 8:39

He goes , no , because I know she's not actually in here , but I'm seeing her , so you're experiencing throughout this this , I mean , it was a process , oh , months upon months , and you are knowing what's coming .

Speaker 2 8:53

Yes , and you're with your background , I was going to say being in medical social work , I could see the writing on the wall and that was a very hard place to be because you so you said anticipated grief .

Speaker 1 9:06

Yes , so we start grieving before we've lost that person .

Speaker 2 9:12

Oh , for months upon months , absolutely so again , my dad had had surgery that day . The dermatologist diagnosed my grandfather with the squamous cell carcinoma and we probably got the results . Well , no , I'm a liar . I'm a liar . So that was September 12th . I remember that date vividly .

Speaker 2 9:30

It was probably about a week after that he got his PET scan because , that was a whole fight and I was about to call in favors to the hospital I used to work for and burping him to get him there , because the town that they lived in just significantly dropped the ball and it should not have taken that long .

Speaker 1 9:45

Do you think through this ? When you're dealing with this grief , you're trying to control things , to grieve that you don't even know Grieve .

Speaker 2 9:53

I think it was more of a preventative and just knowing how much my grandfather loved us and how hard he worked for us , I thought why aren't they working that hard for him ? Do they not understand he deserves gold yeah , like he deserves the gold standard care . And you all are dropping the ball Like I was infuriated and during this whole entire time you were still being a wife .

Speaker 1 10:14

Oh yeah , You're still being a mom to two and working , and working , Doing all the things . Now your oldest is knowing things are going on .

Speaker 2 10:22

Yes , she , more so , was aware of my father-in-law because that is her grandfather , so she was aware that things were not good with him , and so my husband started taking them up there to visit , which they only lived up like an hour away from us .

Speaker 1 10:36

Yeah .

Speaker 2 10:37

He started taking her up there more frequently . Yeah , and I say her both of my children kind of thing , because I started kind of going to my family to try and do . We were kind of having to just divide and conquer , essentially .

Speaker 1 10:48

And it happens that way , I feel like with grief is , it's not just one grief . I feel like you get hit , like you keep getting hit .

Speaker 2 10:55

Oh , if that ain't the truth and I think that's what people with grief is like .

Speaker 1 11:00

Let's even practice so grief and grieving , so grief , right is emotional state that like knocks you off right . It's that grief , like you feel it , like you , it's the gut punch , like you're , just like I keep , I physically Uh-huh , like the crying , the feeling like I'm going to throw up , just like you can't explain it right . But then the grieving , yeah .

Speaker 2 11:24

The grieving to me was more of like the sobbing , the crying , the emotions of it all , and it's longer .

Speaker 1 11:31

Yes .

Speaker 2 11:31

Oh , I'm still grieving .

Speaker 1 11:32

So grieving is a process , Grief is . Is that like I ?

Speaker 2 11:36

hate to say it , it never goes away . It never fully goes away , because I had a grandmother that died seven years ago and most of the time I can talk about her and not cry , but then sometimes but , there are times , especially on the anniversary of her death , I'll kind of get a little teary out and I'm like okay , and I breathe through it . You know , I acknowledge what I'm feeling .

Speaker 1 11:57

I read something because the miscarry , you know , my miscarriage is my greatest grief that I carry with Ava for our first one . And I read something because I thought , you know , like you said , I feel the same way sometimes . It's like there's certain things that really hurt me . Yes , and I was reading about that . I was like , why is this ? You know , because you've taught me to start being curious about things .

Speaker 2 12:20

Let's dig a little .

Speaker 1 12:20

Let's dig right . Yeah , you're experiencing that new or that milestone without that person for that first time . Correct ? So that grief hits you ? Yes , because it's that loss of that time with that person in that event .

Speaker 2 12:38

And then you have things like birthdays and holidays and things like that that come up that sometimes just slap you across the face and you're like , oh well , there's my grief today . Yeah , didn't see that coming

Family's Health Journey Challenges and Hardships

Speaker 2 12:47

. Yeah , so in September , my grandfather two weeks after that dermatology appointment , he got admitted to the hospital for IV antibiotics . So at this point we're like early October that's where we're at and so he got admitted to the hospital for IV antibiotics to try and treat the pneumonia . Finally somebody is getting antibiotics on board . I don't know why it's taken this long , but finally we're actually doing the things that we should be doing . And so , after being in the hospital , he was admitted to a rehab facility , and when I say rehab , not substance abuse , I'm talking like physical rehabilitation , like a pretty intensive , like inpatient PT , and that's typical with , especially like people like him physically they medically could be discharged from the hospital , but like they cannot go back to normal life .

Speaker 2 13:34

He lost a lot of muscle they're weak , so a lot of atrophy there and then to pneumonia , will weaken you pretty significantly . The whole time , though , that he was in the hospital and then that he was at rehab , he continued to have hallucinations , but he was just so aware of them .

Speaker 1 13:51

So you , though , are seeing this person . That's not him .

Speaker 2 13:55

No , because the last time I saw him well , I will say that like post that cancer diagnosis , yes , but not hallucinating was 4th of July and he was still driving .

Speaker 1 14:08

And so it was a quick , quick deterioration . I mean really very , very rapid , so you didn't even have that time to be , it just was now he was this person in this state .

Speaker 2 14:22

And I will never forget it was a Friday because it was like a teacher work day at school , so my oldest was not in kindergarten that day , and so me and well backstory my husband's parents are divorced , so I was with my in-laws but we're talking like his dad and then stepmom , I was with them at the zoo with her that day and we were driving home and my mom had text me and she said we've made a very hard decision about Poppy today and I'm going to get emotional .

Speaker 2 14:48

I am so sorry . No , she said we have chosen to do hospice for him and I can't say that it surprised me . Okay , it still hurts . It still hurts and it hurts now and we're in , we're in March , but still so I was like well , I , I understand that it's hard , but I also think that it is appropriate . And going back to medical social worker , having seen this , having set up hospice for patients before , you knew , I knew , and it was appropriate . So that was on a Friday . They brought Poppy home on a Monday . Well , bless it . My poor mom caught COVID from the rehab facility that he was in .

Speaker 1 15:28

That was just . I remember that text and I was like you have to be kidding me , Whitney .

Speaker 2 15:31

Yeah , I mean , it was one of those . Every time I texted Sarah , I was like so , are you ready ? Buckle up , friend , it just Buckle up . I just think you probably dreaded my texture , like what a bomb is she dropping ? No , no .

Speaker 1 15:43

I just felt like I was like I can't stop this for her and I just kept feeling so , just like I wanted it to be better for you and it kept getting worse , uh-huh . But I also thought like there were so many like things that , like I don't say , distracted you from the like , the loss in the mid but it was just like you were dealing with crisis after crisis after crisis it was .

Speaker 2 16:06

I mean , I couldn't get my head above water , I couldn't fully process one thing after another We've spoken about this in a prior episode where I was really having to fight for an ADD eval for my oldest daughter , and so I was going through kind of those trenches , and then we throw this in the mix and then you've got my dad's diagnosis , which I will say his surgery was very successful but you didn't know that , but we didn't know it at the time .

Speaker 2 16:30

So we're still dealing with that . And then you've got my father-in-law I should say like my stepfather-in-law , but you know so that Monday that they bring Poppy home from hospice , my mom tested positive for COVID and she felt horrible . It was not one of those milder asymptomatic cases . She got hit with it , she got hit hard with it . And then , of course , a few days later , my dad gets it . Because how , how do you avoid that ? You can't , yeah , you can't . And my dad had been at the rehab facility too . So we can say that he caught it from my mom , but he could have gotten it at the rehab facility as well .

Speaker 2 17:03

And so Poppy was home on hospice on a Monday . And so my mom because y'all y'all are going to think my family's bananas over here so her sister , my aunt , had had a kidney transplant about two years ago , so she's super immunocompromised . So , even though the CDC had changed quarantine guidelines , my mom stuck to the 10 days because of my aunt . So I mean , and I get it Like , mom did what she thought was the right thing to do for everybody and that's all you can do with what you've got in that moment

Explaining Death and Grief to Children

Speaker 2 17:38

. And so that Sunday , october 16th , is when I went with my girls to go see him , knowing that he was not responsive and knowing , okay , this is the last time I'm going to see him alive . So how did ?

Speaker 1 17:53

you do that as Whitney , and then you're doing that as mom .

Speaker 2 18:00

So with my oldest . I told her . I said baby Poppy is not going to be like . You know him . I said he's going to be in what I told her was a doctor bed . For some reason that just stuck with her better than a hospital bed . And I was like he's not going to be able to play with you , he's not going to be able to talk to you like he's not doing well . And I told her that he had a sickness and he had gone to the doctors but the medicine just wasn't strong enough . That was really the best way I knew to explain it to her . And I told her that when he died he would go to heaven and that we wouldn't see him again after he died . So as best I thought I could explain death to a five year old without being traumatic about it , which everything I've read about is to just be honest .

Speaker 1 18:48

Oh yeah , and don't you know , get it to a point Now you're two and a half year old , or two year old at that point .

Speaker 2 18:57

My new , two year old there . It was over her head .

Speaker 1 18:59

It was that and it's just then .

Speaker 2 19:01

they don't understand that situation they can't expect them to .

Speaker 1 19:07

So how did you do ?

Speaker 2 19:09

you in that moment , because you're grieving too , I was grieving , and so thankfully because , again , my parents are still in quarantine , so it's not like they can play with my kids while I go see Poppy my sister came down and so she played with the girls while I went and saw Poppy .

Speaker 1 19:25

Did what your moment .

Speaker 2 19:27

Yes , did what I needed to do with him and then , bless it , my oldest , she's so empathetic . So I came back out all the things and she was insistent that she go see Poppy and I said , well , baby , you need to know he's not going to look like how you think he looks . And she's like it's okay , mommy , it's okay . So I took her in there and she really blew me away because she just was very gentle . She touched his hand , she asked questions about the nasal cannula oxygen , about the hospital bed . She was curious .

Speaker 2 19:58

She was curious , but very appropriate , I mean you know , she was very gentle , she was not rambunctious . My two year old , on the other hand , I mean , she was just like a little tornado . She's everywhere .

Speaker 1 20:08

And it's hard because she's too . I'm glad you had that moment , because if you , wouldn't , have had that moment , regrets . I would have had a lot of regrets , and then you're trying to navigate the two year old .

Speaker 2 20:18

Yes , I mean my sister was there , and then my uncle was there too . He kind of taken the shift with my grandfather that day , so my aunt could go home and get some rest , and that's important part is to do what you need to do for that childcare , to have that moment , oh yeah , and if you never get the moment to say goodbye because it's not a poppy situation you still need that moment .

Speaker 1 20:37

I had that moment coming up in a little bit , if it's the funeral , if it's the visitation , if that's just you crying in your car , take your moment away from your child . You need it . You need it . That's , it's okay .

Speaker 2 20:51

Well , and I'm just going to be honest , like we've had a portable DVD player in our car for years for my oldest one , and then we've always reserved it for like long car rides and that kind of stuff , I'm telling you , sister friend watched Paw Patrol , but I know she watched a cartoon or something on the way home so that I could process seeing poppy for the last time , because I knew it would be . So that next day , that Monday , my mom finally got out of quarantine and so she went and saw him and all that kind of stuff . And then that Tuesday morning I was taking the girls to school like normal and my daughter said something that was so interesting to me , and she goes well , mommy , I know what Poppy is dying . I said , well , why is that baby ? And she goes well , cause he wants to go be a burden flying the sky Now , mind you , huge Auburn football fan . So I thought she was going to say he was the eagle , and so I said , well , what kind of a bird is he ? And she goes . I read bird , cause they're the strongest and the best . I had no idea that Cardinals have the meaning that they do as far as a visitor from heaven .

Speaker 2 21:49

So I texted my mom and I said hey , did Poppy die overnight ? Because Sydney just told me something that just really makes me think he didn't . She goes . No , he's about the same . And I was like , interesting , no lie . Two hours later to the minute he passed away and I will say I'm thankful for hospice care because they did make him comfortable . He was in a lot of pain from the squamous cell carcinoma , and so they did a very good job of keeping him as comfortable as they possibly could have . And so a few days later we did the funeral , which ironically was the day before what would have been his 93rd birthday . And so I also had to explain to my older daughter what a casket is and that Poppy was in there . And bless my two year old , when I was carrying around on my hip , she would point at Poppy and go nine night , poppy , nine night .

Speaker 1 22:37

It's so hard , whitney , like it's just so hard .

Speaker 2 22:40

And then , well , when we were at his house , when he was in hospice care , when we were about to leave again , had her up on my hip to go out to the car and I told the girls I was like , well , we need to go , you know , wave by to Poppy and Sammy looked at Poppy , she goes up . I want up Poppy , oh God , because he loved to play with her . So he died October 18th . And , mind you , this whole time my husband's stepped out , is still in hospice care . His Parkinson's is advancing very , very rapidly . He died November 19th , so a month and a day later . So again kind of thrown into the trenches of grief . It's like it was perpetual grief . Not to mention that the week after literally we got home from the funeral from Poppy and Sydney popped a fever and both girls were sick that whole week of his adenovirus and then stripped throat for my youngest one . So that was fun , so throwing the mommy into it and then , because the reality is is now your mom .

Speaker 1 23:37

Mom , don't stop .

Speaker 2 23:38

No , mommy , don't stop . The world At the same point .

Speaker 1 23:41

grief is not going to be stopping and grieving is not stopping , and then we have my husband's grief too , because he's losing a stepdad . But then you have this whole thing . I mean , I just felt like there was trains just coming out .

Speaker 2 23:53

Oh they were . It was not a good time in my life , and I can say that , and I'm just calling it for what it is . And so my husband's stepdad had chosen to be cremated . So then that's a whole other conversation you had .

Speaker 2 24:07

It was a yes , that was challenging because he died right before Thanksgiving week and so they had already decided on cremation beforehand . But that gave my mother a lot of the opportunity to not have to go to a funeral the week of Thanksgiving . So they had his funeral on December 1st . Well , we took my oldest one with me to that one because daycare was open , and so my youngest went to daycare like normal , just because that made our life easier , and I don't think that's bad , I think that's fine , it's OK .

Speaker 2 24:39

For a two-year-old , that was appropriate . That is Now my five-year-old . I gave her the choice . Yeah , I asked her if she wanted to go with us or if she wanted to do school , because my mom did pick up my youngest . I said , and then , honey , can come get you this afternoon when you're done with kindergarten . And she's like no , I want to go with you . And I said OK . And so we were there at the funeral and they had chosen a gray marble container for my father-in-law and she said well , mommy , where's Popo ? And I said , well , you see that gray box over there . And she goes , yes , and I said that's right . And she goes no , mommy , he's too tall for that . And I'm like accurate ?

Speaker 1 25:15

Yes , I can't .

Unexpected Grief and Difficult Conversations

Speaker 1 25:16

It's like when there's things you have to like explain , but you're like , how do I explain ?

Speaker 2 25:21

And I'm just going to be real . I just said , well , that's a good point , and I just went on because I was not about to have a conversation with my five-year-old about cremation and that process .

Speaker 1 25:32

But it's like those things that you don't think you're going to have to answer while you're grieving at a funeral , but when you're a mom , yeah .

Speaker 2 25:40

Nobody told me I was going to have to have that conversation with a five-year-old . That's very curious and very aware of things going on in life .

Speaker 1 25:47

I mean , that's hard to explain and that's not someone that they know and love and you know and love , correct .

Speaker 2 25:51

And then here it is , in that moment , and so then that following Saturday , december 3rd , we went up to my other grandfather , so my dad's dad . We went up to his house for that side of the family's Thanksgiving . So we were there . It was great , wonderful , all the things . And I had told that grandfather I said we really want to commit to seeing you maybe once a month , once every six weeks , things like that , because with COVID and all the things , like you just didn't get to see people , we just didn't get to . And again , he was elderly , he was 90 . And we didn't want to put , and I worked in the hospital too .

Speaker 1 26:24

For so much it's been a weird period of our lives . It has been , and now we're coming out and it's like you're right , we do need , we're trying to make more efforts for our families , especially older generations , well and especially just , and everything you've just been through Exactly . You knew how quickly things could turn . Things can change .

Speaker 2 26:41

And so that was just something that I was aware of , and so it was . I'll never forget . It was December 22nd and I could see my mom calling me on my phone right before I pulled a client back to my office and I thought , oh , she's just calling me for Christmas Eve plans . So I let her get a voice phone . Because I was pulling a client back , I was like I'll call mom on lunch , Not a big deal , and because I do have a Fitbit , she immediately texted me and said you need to call me .

Speaker 2 27:08

And I was like oh and doesn't that just ?

Speaker 1 27:10

make everybody just sink in like , oh , I wanted to throw up .

Speaker 2 27:14

But here I am starting a session with a client . I can't be like time out . Let me see what this is about . So I still have to maintain my professionalism , all the while dealing with anxiety because something is wrong . Because if it were about Christmas plans , my mom would have just said , hey , give me a call and you get a chance and we'll talk about Christmas .

Speaker 1 27:30

And at this point you were just like what else is going to happen ? I was like you knew , like I knew .

Speaker 2 27:35

Something was wrong . I didn't know what it was , and so , even before that hour was up , my mom called me back again , and now I'm really starting to panic and I'm trying to hide it .

Speaker 1 27:44

Because you're still doing your job . Yeah .

Speaker 2 27:46

I'm still in a session and I'm trying to hide my panic from my client , because it's not appropriate for me to put my feelings onto a client . We have to maintain those ethical boundaries . And so immediately I think I wrapped that session up like five minutes early and so I called mom back and she answered and I immediately just said what's wrong and my other grandfather had died in his sleep .

Speaker 1 28:13

Very unexpectedly . Whenever you text me that I'm like you have to be kidding .

Speaker 2 28:17

And it was just bizarre because a few days after we had done our Thanksgiving get together , my dad had taken my grandfather to the cardiologist . He was a diet control diabetic , not overweight , none of that . He had had a heart procedure a few years ago for his atrial fibrillation , but it was well managed , Very well managed , and so they took him to the doctor . They adjusted some of his meds for his lasex , things like that , but overall the doctor was like you've got a great heart for a 90-year-old , Like you're really doing well .

Speaker 1 28:48

It wasn't . This one was very like . It wasn't the hospital , it wasn't hospice .

Speaker 2 28:53

It wasn't something new coming . This was very unexpected , I thought I had at least a year to two years with pop Like . His death was semi on my radar because he was 90 . But it wasn't it wasn't to the level of the past two no , no , no . I did not think it was imminent by any means . And you talked about grief and kind of that physical reaction . My mom told me that and I just started going no , no , no , this is no . And she goes . I'm so sorry and I said no yeah that did not happen .

Speaker 1 29:21

And that's a lot of people's reaction .

Speaker 2 29:24

It was a very visceral reaction .

Speaker 2 29:26

You just like your body screaming no , oh yeah , and so I immediately went into denial , avoidance , whatever you want to call it . And I remember feeling so weak in my knees I didn't like fall or anything , I just felt weak in my knees . And so I mean , and I still had sessions that morning , like I had another client in the waiting room so I couldn't just like cancel , like hey , I know you're sitting there ready for your session , but I just got a terrible phone call Can't see you today . Like I couldn't do that . So I had to kind of get myself together for a couple of more sessions and then when it was finally my lunch break , I told our secretary . I said I I can't do the rest of today , I'm just not there . And , mind you , my husband and my older daughter they were already on Christmas break , I remember- that .

Speaker 2 30:08

And I was going to meet them for lunch at Chick-fil-A that morning and I walked in and I felt like a hollow shell of a person at this point and I'm sure I looked pale , all the things cause . I looked at my husband and he immediately read back my facial expression of something is wrong and I just remember kind of falling apart in the booth at Chick-fil-A , sobbing , can't get a word out , and he's like what is wrong ? And I'm gasping between words and he's like Whitney , I can't understand you , what is wrong ? And I got it out and I just fell apart in Chick-fil-A and that's okay , yeah , that's okay .

Speaker 2 30:48

I mean it has been a perpetual season of grief , but then we go into okay , now we have Christmas without him , that we just did not see coming , and you had to do all and like let's not forget you , your mom you're still doing all Christmas oh yeah , we're still still doing all the things you still made .

Speaker 1 31:05

the kids have the best holiday .

Speaker 2 31:07

Well , and then you think about it too . My older daughter was there while I'm falling apart and she's like mommy , mommy , what wrong , why are you crying , mommy ? So I had to tell her oh what , third death in two months , baby girl . So I had to explain that to her .

Speaker 1 31:23

And then , when I think it's good , whitney , that you you had to get it out .

Speaker 2 31:28

No , granted , I did not tell her that he died in his sleep , because I have read before that that can make kids scared to go to sleep .

Speaker 1 31:36

So I was like , well , that's not a detail that she had to know .

Speaker 2 31:38

No , it isn't . But then you know , we went to the funeral and that was during the week . I was like I'm going to get my two year old went to daycare because that was just the best option for everybody .

Speaker 1 31:48

That's actually one of the things I was reading about , like utilize your resources . Utilize resources . Ask for help .

Speaker 2 31:54

If you're already paying for daycare and it can cover you when you have a toddler that won't sit still , that could be , you know , tantrum-y , like all these things when you're trying to grieve and deal with what you're dealing with .

Speaker 1 32:07

Don't make it harder on yourself .

Speaker 2 32:08

Correct and so we were there and it was you know how they do kind of like the final call I hate to say it up to the casket so family can say their goodbyes . I went up there and my daughter was next to me and I said , well , do you have any questions ? And she goes , is he hurting ? And I said no , baby's not hurting . And I said you know , you can touch his shoulder or his arm if it makes you feel any better . That backfired on me because she did not touch his arm or head . She like slapped her hand on his forehead like she's taking her temperature .

Speaker 1 32:38

Well , but then again it's well . She knows she's been moms and grieving and in these situations , oh yeah .

Speaker 2 32:45

It was one of those , like you , you would have thought she was checking for a fever . And then she goes mommy , why is he cold ? See , yeah , and thankfully it was a very cold day in Alabama that day . And I said you know what baby , someone opened that front door and he just got cold from that . And she accepted that answer . And I just let her accept that answer because at five years old , that is the best .

Speaker 1 33:07

There's no rule book , Whitney , of how to respond and you don't know what your kids want you to say we don't know what our kids are going to say in a normal day , let alone in like a grief funeral situation .

Speaker 2 33:18

The third one in two months , much less . And so that was that . And so you know we then we did the graveside and blah , blah , blah , all those things . Even now , whenever I've taken Sydney to like a dentist appointment or a doctor appointment or things like that , I'm like , okay , do you have any questions about , like , what we're doing ? Do you have any questions about , like , what we're going to do at the pediatrician or whatever she goes ? Yeah , I've got questions . I'm like , well , what is a baby ? And then she'll ask me questions about Poppy and Pawpaw and pop and I'm like , yay , and it hurts you still , I know , oh , it does . Because I mean this past week has been just another wave of grief where we hit the five month anniversary of Poppy dying , the four month one of my father-in-law dying , and then yesterday , the 22nd , was the three month anniversary of pop dying , plus Poppy's house went on the market and then it was pop's birthday .

Speaker 1 34:09

And I was like yay , thanks .

Speaker 2 34:12

Like this is fabulous , love it . So I say that to say grief is a continuum . We're never fully done grieving . We learn how to adapt with it .

Speaker 1 34:24

You learn life with grief .

Speaker 2 34:26

You do . I mean , there was a really good diagram that I saw on Instagram that said okay , this square is you , grape , is this massive black circle ? And throughout the diagram , the square gets bigger , so it makes it look like the circle gets smaller .

Speaker 1 34:45

But it's still there .

Speaker 2 34:46

But we learned to . It's still there , but we learned to adapt and work around it and I feel like that's a great depiction of grief . But then too , I mean I'm a mom winging it and just know you don't have to go into a lot of details with your kids when it comes to grief , because these were all three men that my daughter knew in her life . She had good relationships with them . She saw my parents and my mother-in-law have relationships with them .

Speaker 1 35:17

She saw everybody breathing yes .

Speaker 2 35:19

She saw everybody grieving , but she also saw okay , these are people we're connected to , this isn't some like 15th removed cousin that lives across the nation . This was immediate .

Speaker 1 35:30

These were close .

Speaker 2 35:31

These were very , very close things . And you know , bless her , she has assigned everybody a color of a bird , because that's just what she does .

Speaker 1 35:41

That's a grieving thing for her , and that's fine , and it's remembrance .

Speaker 2 35:44

Well , and now it's one of those like if we ever see a red bird or a blue bird or a humming bird , she's like oh well , there they are . So she sees that and it's something that can bring us comfort to as adults .

Speaker 1 35:55

Well , I know , you know , I've always said that Ava shows herself to me .

Speaker 2 35:59

Yes , she's a butterfly . She's a yellow butterfly , that's right , she sure is . And now I think you have your birds . That's right , we have our birds .

Speaker 1 36:05

Well , whitney , I know it's not easy to talk about this , and I think it's important because I think we all that's something no one's going to get away from grief .

Speaker 2 36:14

And nobody's immune from life . So , I say that to my clients a lot Like nobody is immune from life . We can't bubble ourselves from life , so cut yourself slack . When life does hit you and you find yourself crying , you find yourself angry .

Speaker 1 36:30

You find yourself , you start to get bird .

Speaker 2 36:31

Yeah , you find yourself questioning the whys of it all . I would be lying if I said I hadn't questioned . Well , why did Pop have to die within two months , in a month of these other deaths ? Like that seems unnecessary .

Speaker 1 36:42

A work through your emotions . As Whitney said , she's open , she has a therapist , she works through it , supports us and good friends . And again , the biggest thing is like there's no rule book , there's no right or wrong . When your mom and mommy in grief , you're just going to have to go through it .

Speaker 2 37:00

And , like I said , I was winging it and we all are , especially when you have kids that young . So hard . So , mommas , do the best that you can .

Speaker 1 37:08

Well , I may be biased and you're not alone .

Speaker 2 37:10

Again , not alone , but I'm not hopeful at all .

Speaker 1 37:14

And your vulnerability will help . It will help .

Speaker 2 37:17

So , and here's one thing if you do seek out a therapist for your grief journey , ask them about the empty chair modality . It's a fabulous modality for grief .

Speaker 1 37:26

Tell the listeners let's leave on that tip . Give them that .

Speaker 2 37:29

So empty chair is when you are in the office with your therapist and there's a chair that nobody's actually in , but you visualize You're a loved one there and you just tell them everything that is on your heart and on your mind .

Speaker 1 37:43

I love that .

Speaker 2 37:44

With no boundaries .

Speaker 1 37:46

I love that and I think you could do that , and you're driving your car oh yes , you could save it as your passenger Cause you're like well , what if I'm not in therapy ? That's okay . Talk to that person and let that out , and I think we all need that sometimes .

Speaker 2 38:00

Oh , absolutely .

Speaker 1 38:01

Well , thank you , whitney .

Speaker 2 38:02

You're welcome .

Speaker 1 38:03

I think you're incredible . I hate you went through it , but you're going to help a lot of women .

Speaker 2 38:06

Maybe we're on the other side of it Fingers crossed .

Speaker 1 38:08

Knock on one I was about to say it .

Speaker 2 38:09

I hope I didn't jinx it .

Speaker 1 38:12

Okay , guys , we will be back next week .

Speaker 2 38:14

Alright , see ya .

Maternal Mental Health Support Podcast

Speaker 1 38:17

Maternal mental health is as important as physical health . The Previous Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression in all its variables , like anxiety , anger and even apathy . Hosted by CEO founder Sarah Parker's and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gaye , each episode focuses on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum . Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges , as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms . You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time . Please know you're not alone on this journey . We're here to help .