Speaker 1: 0:11

Hey guys, welcome back to Preview Alliance podcast. This is Sarah and today's episode I'm super excited about. I have a special guest with us who we are going to be talking all things pregnancy, postpartum and we're just going to say it fitness, mom, bod, whatever you want to call it, getting back our identity. But we're going to tackle it today. So I'm welcoming McKenna. Hello and welcome to the Preview Alliance podcast.

Speaker 2: 0:39

Hi, yeah, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Speaker 1: 0:43

To all our listeners. I'm going to let you know how much of a rock star she is. It is five o'clock in Hawaii where she is joining us in the morning and she is a mom of two littles and she is up looking great and engaged, ready to talk to us.

Speaker 2: 0:58

Yes, it is early, but that's how we roll as moms Totally Well for our listeners.

Speaker 1: 1:05

Give us a little background about you, tell us about what you're up to, and then we'll kind of dive into why we wanted to bring you on. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:12

So my name is McKenna Poe and I am a personal trainer For that. I'm a wife and a mom. I've got two kids, like you said. I have a three-year-old and a one-year-old. But I'm a personal trainer and I specialize in corrective exercise for pregnant women and then I also specialize in the diastasis core separation.

Speaker 2: 1:36

So my typical day looks like doing mom's stuff for most of the day and then work stuff while kids take a nap, getting in what I can around my kid's schedule, and my husband is a firefighter so he's gone for 24 hours at a time. So I'm a little bit limited on what I can do and when I can do it, but we try to get it done as best as we can. And yeah, we live in Hawaii, so a lot of beach time, a lot of outdoor time, because luckily we have the ability to do that, because it's pretty much nice weather all year round. So that's us. We're in Hawaii and my husband is a firefighter, and then he's also on the worship team at our church, so we do a lot of church, you know, just pretty average stuff Church, beach, family, get togethers, all that kind of stuff Wonderful.

Speaker 1: 2:13

Well, yeah, I mean so many things to touch on. I guess the first thing that I think a lot of listeners probably just piqued their interest is okay, so what is corrective specialist? What does that mean? When you hear that title, you know we talk. We've talked before with pelvic floor and our listeners are kind of familiar. You know the common things, that the lies we are told like it's okay to pee on yourself. No, it is not you know or?

Speaker 1: 2:39

you know if you're working out and you feel like you're about to pee, that's a red flag, or you know you're just like you hit on it, you know when you're at the stomach separation that a lot of moms have. So just walk us through, kind of like what led you to this specially and like what's your goal, for moms are.

Speaker 2: 2:59

So corrective exercise differs a little bit because rather than just trying to get you in shape, we're also trying to get you healthy. So if you are pregnant or postpartum and you are, for example, experiencing a lot of lower back pain, rather than just saying you need to stretch and kind of calling it a day or maybe get a massage, I'll totally recommend those things for sure. But we're going to look at why are you having lower back pain? So usually the lower back pain is because your core has separated out of the way and so you're not having the extra stability there so you're leaning backwards. That's why you have more of that pregnancy waddles, because you're tilting backwards. So you have all these musculoskeletal changes that are happening and so we're trying to adapt with them and help you kind of cope with that and gain strength around that. So we're going to strengthen all the surrounding and little supportive muscles that are going to help aid in your body's changing. And so, rather than just giving you a standard workout to do, we're kind of looking at the whole picture and how we can help with all your little aches and pains. And the way that I kind of got into that specifically was I was a personal trainer before I had my kids and when I got pregnant I remember asking my doctor, like okay, what can or can't I do? Like you know, there's no way it can be the exact same because I'm going to be changing. So what you know, what's my guidelines?

Speaker 2: 4:17

And at the time I lived on Kauai and Hawaii itself is not known for having those resources for pretty much anything, except if you're a surfer. But especially in regards to pregnancy and postpartum and things like that, there's not a lot of resources. And so my doctor just told me you can just do whatever you feel like doing. If you want to do CrossFit, do CrossFit. If you want to hike, hike. If you want to do nothing, do nothing. Whatever is fine. And that just wasn't a suitable answer for me. So I really just started out researching for myself to get answers, because that just you know, I like to know the why behind things, why are we doing things?

Speaker 2: 4:56

And when I found the avenue of corrective exercise, that really fed into that desire to know of like why and behind what's going on, like, why do I feel like this? What's happening in my body, and it was kind of the closest thing that I could do without having to go back to like full-time school, but I could do for like two years, so it was a little bit more doable for myself. And as I started doing that to learn for myself, I was like, okay, there's no way I'm the only one asking these questions and being told these same things. And so I started just briefly posting little things on my Instagram and my Instagram isn't huge or anything but started having moms message me and be like my doctor said the same thing, or you know what are you doing for your exercise? Because I haven't known what to do, so I'm not doing anything.

Speaker 2: 5:41

And you know doing nothing is, you know it's safe, but it doesn't mean it's the right way to go either.

Speaker 2: 5:47

So that's kind of what led me into that and as I started learning more, just really fell in love with the learning of it and then being able to answer those questions for other moms too, because what I wanted to do and what I felt like was kind of unacceptable in my mind going into being a mom, I kind of had heard a stigma either way of you're either going to have to be kind of fitness obsessed and have like be blessed with great genetics to be able to get back in shape after having kids, or you're just kind of like doomed to never look or feel the same again and I just felt like that wasn't an acceptable answer either way, like you should be able to be a mom and have time with your kids and be fit and healthy and confident before, during and after pregnancy.

Speaker 2: 6:32

So that's kind of like my goal for moms is to do it in a healthy way where we're not like obsessing over our fitness or things like that and it becomes unhealthy, but to be able to do it in a healthy way but still be confident, because just because you're a mom doesn't mean you can't be confident, you can't look good or things like that. So I wanted to be able to sort of bridge all the gaps between looking good but also doing it in a really healthy and sustainable way.

Speaker 1: 6:59

Now so was that during your first pregnancy, where you're like there's no one out here doing this? And so I think it's very similar to why we started Previa Alliance, which were maternal mental health focused, because it was the same thing I was going. This was during my second pregnancy, where I had experienced postpartum depression severely and I was asking questions well, what can I do differently, how can I be prepared? And it was the same responses I was getting was you know, there's not a lot of resources, or you've made it through it once, you'll make it through it again, kind of mentality. So you're right, like that's not acceptable for moms. They deserve the resources and they deserve it honestly, in a digestible, easy way, right, yeah, absolutely. That's why I love your Instagram is that it is a platform for moms to see you a busy mom of two littles with I mean 24-hour work shifts with your husband. You're pulling solo mom duty a lot.

Speaker 3: 8:00

Yeah, I am pulling solo mom duty and you still figure out how to incorporate and get it in.

Speaker 1: 8:03

So let's touch on that for a second. What like mom life tips do you have for us there? Because is your family in Hawaii with you or are you guys kind of by yourself?

Speaker 2: 8:12

So my in-laws are in Hawaii, my husband's family. They live like five minutes a month. I'm actually at their house right now because my father-in-law is watching our kids at home while my husband. He gets off this morning but not until later. My family and parents live in Kentucky, so I'm from California originally but they just moved out there about two years ago. So I have lots of help with my in-laws and if my parents were here you know they're dying to help, so I would love to be here for that, but it really just comes down to, I think, changing your expectations of what a workout should look like.

Speaker 2: 8:48

After I had my first son, I also had experienced really severe postpartum depression with him and I had just so much pressure on myself that I had to get back in shape and look really good and feel really good and that just that wasn't happening and part of my, I think, struggle was that I had really high expectations that weren't being met. But my expectations were pre-kids and then you know that's going to change each time you have a kid. It's not going to be the same after each one. You know you're going to have new circumstances and challenges after each kid and so changing what that looks like. So maybe putting off the dishes during nap time and doing a workout and doing the dishes later, or just allowing my kids to run around and be a little crazy while I get a workout in, or taking it outside and letting them play outside and I'll do my workout outside and it might not be a fluid all the way through hour, but I'm still getting my movement in. I'm still aiming to get the same amount of reps in as I can. I don't recommend running right away. But once you hit that point where you can run, then I like to just put the kids in a stroller, go for a run because they're kind of contained and that's still getting me movement in and things like that. So I think just changing your expectations of what exercise is going to look like after you have kids, especially as a stay-at-home mom I know plenty of moms who have a gym membership and they have childcare at the gym and that's totally awesome.

Speaker 2: 10:19

We don't have anything like that in Hawaii. There's no childcare at the gyms and so I couldn't. The nearest gym's a half hour away with no childcare. That's just not doable for me. To be able to go to the gym and get a workout in like that, if you can, that's great, but for home workouts as a mom, I think just changing the expectation of what that should look like is probably going to set you up for much better success than even what program plan you're doing.

Speaker 1: 10:44

No, I think that's a valid point and I think that's something that you don't realize or it's told to you when you're pregnant. I think there's a lot of things when we're pregnant that we assume will not change, and I think it is like you said the expectations. Like no one says, hey, your workouts are going to look different, like even physically, what you can do in the beginning to then.

Speaker 1: 11:05

the time, like you don't have that hour time, like you used to, I think, a lot of moms who are used to having that segregated, sacred time per se of this workout. It's like where we clear our minds as well.

Speaker 1: 11:19

like where you just kind of feel like it's your time, and then it is hard. Just kind of feel like it's your time and then it is hard. It was a hard thing for me when I was working out with my oldest was little and then when my youngest, you know, I timed some naps, because then I turned away of going like, okay, nap time I want, is my time right?

Speaker 1: 11:38

So like I always say to moms do what you can, that you need to get do with your little helper tagging along and then try to have your sacred time. So that nap time is that workout time. Or that nap time is like where you're like I'm going to read a book or I'm going to watch a TV show and then, yes, your workout may look a little chaotic, right, like you think, hey, I'm going to knock out 10 reps of this. That little one comes over. You do two. Hand them a snack, you know like throw the ball, whatever, and then you do eight more.

Speaker 1: 12:09

So I think you're so right and you think it's just you. You're just like oh my God, it's just isn't my child.

Speaker 1: 12:14

That's the only child that keeps interrupting me, my family, as a mom, yeah, yeah, like you just have this preconceived idea of what your life is ultimately supposed to look like in every area, and fitness is one that you're, so you hit on. All the topics of just society paints this picture of you. You're pregnant and then you just have this baby and you see celebrities, you see you know, people that bounce back and then you're, you're going.

Speaker 2: 12:44

That's not happening to me you know that's a really hard one nowadays, especially with social media, is that only the people bouncing back are the people you're gonna see on there in, you know, a sports bra and leggings right after they had a baby.

Speaker 2: 12:58

You know, yeah, most of us who you know it's gonna take a while for all that to go back into place, and that's not because you're not in shape, but all that has to go back into place. There's so much healing that has to take place, and so that's not the stuff that you're seeing regularly and that's like such a hard thing too, because you're seeing, you know, 30 seconds of a mom's wonderful clip when you know I don't know where her kids are. At that time you know she could have a babysitter, or maybe they are being well behaved and that's great. That doesn't mean they're like that all day long, and so that is a very hard thing, especially even on your mental aspect of being a mom is the comparison that we are able to have, not only in our own circles but on social media, because there are so many people who are like fitness influencers nowadays.

Speaker 2: 13:45

And those are the people that we're really seeing and that's a really high expectation to try and match up to, and it sets high expectations for yourself that you probably just won't meet at that time, and not because you're doing something wrong, but it's just because that's not realistic and it's probably not even realistic for them. There's a lot going into that and there's a lot behind that. So, yeah, I think social media and, like you said, just society and all around us has painted a very tainted picture of what that's supposed to look like for moms coming into postpartum.

Speaker 1: 14:16

So if a mom's listening to this now say she's pregnant, what's some advice to give her? So she's like okay, I want to start doing things now. That's going to make my pregnancy stronger and better, that's going to aid in my recovery. What is now that you know the information? You went through it? Say you're let's say you're going to go for round three, what would you be doing? What's McKenna's like? Okay? Pregnancy to-do list.

Speaker 2: 14:41

Okay, pregnancy to-do list is going to be, first and foremost, making sure that you are eating enough. That's such a big thing especially if you have other kids is so many moms are not eating enough, and so making sure you're eating enough and obviously proper nutrition, for sure, but making sure you're eating enough. I'm someone who's hypoglycemic, so if I don't eat then I am like your worst nightmare to be around and that's something that I really failed to do pre-pregnancy and postpartum. So making sure you eat enough and like feeling yourself to feel good, getting a lot of protein in. You know you're sustaining a baby, so getting that protein in and feeling good.

Speaker 2: 15:18

The next thing that I always start with and start clients with is diaphragmatic breathing, and diaphragmatic breathing is what connects the core to the pelvic floor. Your diaphragm is your optimal breathing muscle and a lot of people breathe through their chest or through their stomach. The best place to breathe is through the diaphragm, because it's going to allow you to expand and get the most breath. So, starting with that that's something that I start you on in pregnancy and that's the first thing that we start postpartum is diaphragmatic breathing, because it's that really gentle reconnection of the core and the waking up of the core and the pelvic floor and it kind of ties the two together. So diaphragmatic breathing it's my first one, and then I always just start with getting in.

Speaker 2: 16:02

While I'm pregnant I like to at least get in three solid workouts a week, because I totally get that. Especially in your first trimester you feel awful. I was so sick my first trimester with my son that the thought of getting up made me nauseous, and so getting in a workout at that point is so challenging, but it is beneficial and it can help you feel less nauseous. But to get to that point is so hard. I would always start with trying to go for a walk first, like if I could even just get up to go and start with like a five minute warmup walk. That was like my best friend and then I could sort of like, okay, gather myself to get into a workout.

Speaker 2: 16:39

And I'd say my guideline that I usually tell my ladies is what you'll hear, and this is like an outdated guideline is the don't let your heart rate get above 140 beats per minute when you're exercising. That causes so much stress because everybody's fitness level is different and so you know my heart rate could get to 140 going for a run, whereas you know somebody who just doesn't have the ability to exercise regularly, their heart rate might get to 140 beats per minute doing something very normal activity. And that's not due to you know anything crazy, it's just you know, what does your normal day to day look like? Based off of sort of how you're feeling, because when you're pregnant, how you feel changes from day to day, even moment by moment, and so really just kind of going with how you're feeling, like what you're able to do that day.

Speaker 2: 17:31

There were days where I felt super strong and like I could get a full lift session in, and then there's days where I just couldn't and I needed to take a nap and go for a walk later that afternoon, and so with my first pregnancy I had again nap and go for a walk later that afternoon, and so with my first pregnancy I had again just put a lot of pressure on myself maintain that like consistent exercise seven days a week and all that kind of stuff, and I just felt terrible and it just it put you know just the wrong mentality on myself and rather than enjoying being pregnant, I was just stressing out about that.

Speaker 2: 18:02

So McKenna now, two pregnancies later, is like okay, I'm at a different place fitness-wise now, so I would just continue doing what I'm doing as I can and I would just gently modify things for the sake of my core and my pelvic floor. But for now I would just stick with what I'm doing. But yeah, I would say the biggest thing that I like to start people on and moms on is diaphragmatic breathing and just gentle core work. And going for a walk. Walk is honestly just like I don't know. There's just something about getting outside, going for a walk, breathing in fresh air, that really changes, I feel, how you're feeling and where you're at mentally and all that kind of stuff where you're at mentally and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1: 18:45

No, I think walks are. So people are just like, what do you mean? Go for a walk? But it's the most underrated for our mind, for our body. So a walk a day, I say, can usually change everything your worries, your anxieties and your health. Now let's flip it. So what would you say to the moms who just had a baby? So let's talk about like zero to six months moms postpartum. Well, what is some advice you give to them?

Speaker 2: 19:10

Okay, zero to six months. So your first six weeks you're not cleared for normal exercise yet. So what happens a lot of time is you don't do anything or you do too much, and there is a fine line there. So first six weeks is and there is a fine line there. So first six weeks is, in my opinion, one of the most important sections of your postpartum. And so I always start with the first week diaphragmatic breathing and really gentle pelvic floor reconnection, just really gentle, one second hold and gradually adding another second each week, and then we'll do some very gentle core connection work, so just to wake up the core, and then I'll move into really gentle waking up of your glutes, your hamstrings, your diaphragm, things like that. Because what a lot of people don't realize is when you give birth, your glutes actually turn off. Whatever happens, they actually go into a temporary paralysis and for a lot of ladies who don't actively exercise their glutes, they won't turn back on naturally and so you have to activate those before you can work those muscles out. And so that's why you'll hear a lot of times like you'll see on Instagram a lot of jokes about like the flat mom butt or having a mom butt or things like that. I feel like most women probably don't want to have a super flat butt, like they'd like to have shape to that, and so I always like to start in with that like engaging of those muscles and getting them activated so that when we get cleared, we're able to grow those muscles and build strength and see a little bit of results and stuff like that. So those first six weeks, just a lot of reconnection and healing and waking up muscles so that we can exercise. Because, like I said, if your muscles aren't active and they're not turned on properly, you can't grow them, you can't strengthen, you can't do those things. So I really like to focus on the healing aspect.

Speaker 2: 21:02

The other thing that I would say is that your body just did nine plus months of changing. You've got to give it time to heal. That's something that I see a lot of times is moms starting after their six-week appointment right back into their normal workouts or even back into running, and that's really harsh, and so that doesn't mean you can't do good exercise where you feel winded and all that kind of stuff, that sort of feeling that you're looking for. But it shouldn't be the same, because you're not in the same place and what I like to say is like that's so okay, because you just did such a big task. Your body grew a baby and you delivered that baby and that's a big task and there were so many changes that you're unaware of that happened in your body and all of that has to take time to go back and so just to give yourself grace and allow time for you to heal. The other side of that is you don't have to just not do anything for six months and then do that. So there is sort of like an actively waiting that you can do where you're. You know you're building back up. I think that's more.

Speaker 2: 22:12

What I'm trying to say is not just jumping right back in, but allowing yourself to have that progression, because you're kind of progressively getting less. As you're pregnant, you're going to kind of start to do less and less and then you want to kind of reverse that and slowly start to do more and more. And again, walking, that's like the number one For me. I'm like, whenever you're able, whenever you're not actively bleeding more, every time you go walk, go for that walk. If you're able to and your body's feeling it, go for that walk, because that's also going to aid in your healing with circulation and all of that and just for your mental.

Speaker 2: 22:46

For me, like that postpartum especially first six months, like your mental state is so important and so putting the pressure on yourself to really get into a great workout routine can be really challenging on your mental status.

Speaker 2: 23:02

The other thing is is I'm somebody who really likes structure. So having a workout plan to go into is helpful for me mentally and so I liked to sort of you know I would write something up before I had a baby that I could follow for after, because I like to have that structure and I like to not have to think about what to do and just to be able to do it. So if that is something that is beneficial for you, then I would suggest you know looking into that before you have your baby, if you're able to. What I also like to like give caution for is not every person who has a prenatal or postpartum section on their workout programs means that it's a good one. Just because they advertise that, it doesn't mean it's going to be a good one. It doesn't mean all those exercises are going to be beneficial for you postpartum. So really look into, kind of, who you're following, whose programs you're going to do, and things like that. But yeah, walking, that's again always going to be my best one.

Speaker 1: 24:02

And it's good for the baby too. You know, I remember immediately coming home and I had C-sections and pretty rough ones and, like I even that small walk. I remember where we used to live there was this big hill and I was too, too adventurous and I remember I was starting up the hill and I was like I can't do this, and so my husband literally went and got the car and got me and I remember being so upset about you know how.

Speaker 1: 24:24

I felt in that and he was like you literally just were cut open, you know, and I was like I know, but it is that snapback, it is that we got to get back, and I think it is because we feel so out of control sometimes mentally in our situation that we look at our body as a thing that's like, well, I can fix that right or you see it right. I think you can see your body, you see your muscles and sometimes seeing that body postpartum, it's hard to accept it.

Speaker 1: 24:52

You know, it's hard to sometimes look at yourself in the mirror. I'll never forget the first C-section why there was a mirror in the full-length mirror in the bathroom, Lord knows, lord knows. Just get rid of it, because I remember I had to be helped to the restroom by my husband, stood up, saw myself and I was like what has happened?

Speaker 1: 25:13

You know, and it was that you know and you know everything that just happened. You just grew a baby, you just had, you just gave birth to this child, but it is really hard to see your body and so many. And I say we're the generation where, when we were growing up, our parents were very inundated with diet culture, right or like.

Speaker 1: 25:35

Weight Watchers was huge, or you know. It was like this, where people are doing those steps, you know, and it's like workout. So there was a lot of pressure on as we were growing up as young women of how we look and what we should look like, and then moms. So then that's people don't realize that, but like that's still ingrained of us in some level now that we're moms and it's hard to navigate it.

Speaker 2: 26:02

Yeah, and I think, even like how you feel to right after is like you think, okay, I'm just, you know, I'm not sick, so I'm just gonna have this baby, and then I'm gonna feel like myself again and that's just so discouraging to not feel like yourself right away. I just remember, after I had my first son, I had 32 stitches and nobody told me. I had no idea that I had stitches, I had no idea that I tore. I pushed him for three hours and you know it. Just everything seemed really routine. They handed me him. I didn't even pay attention that I was getting stitches. And so I went home and I remember the first time well, actually the first time I had to go to the bathroom there I fainted on my way to the bathroom. Whatever happened, my blood pressure was off, so I fainted. They brought me back, they put a catheter in and they actually ripped my stitches putting the catheter in. They never fixed it, but they again never told me.

Speaker 2: 26:53

And so I'm just like I'm standing up and I'm feeling just awful, like something's majorly wrong, and I'm just devastated because in my head there's no chance in my life that I'm ever going to be able to work out feeling like this. And so I was just like I. You know, I'm devastated, I don't know what to do. I can't even get up to get my baby because I'm in so much pain, I can't sit down.

Speaker 2: 27:17

And I just remember, like coming back to our house and my mom was there and asking my mom, like is this normal? Like I can't sit down? And she was like it's normal for you to be sore, for sure, but do you know if you have any stitches? And I was like I don't know. So we found my packet. My packet didn't say anything on the front, so I literally had to go like check for myself and then to see that and just be like oh my gosh. And I just remember being so devastated about that and then just thinking like man, like is this ever going to heal? Is there anything I can do to help? You know I wasn't given anything.

Speaker 1: 27:52

I had no idea that's so traumatic and not okay. Yeah, like I'm so sorry you went through that and you are not. Unfortunately, you are not like a lone person in this experience of things happening during your birth that you're not told about, that you find out about or maybe you express and dismissed about, and that is very impactful and your recovery and I mean I'm sure that made how you're feeling with the postpartum depression worse. I mean, that's heavy.

Speaker 2: 28:24

Yeah, it was. And then our son he had colic and I had no idea I had taken him in and I kept asking like there has to be something wrong with him, because he would and like, don't even exaggerate in 24 hours of the day he would sleep, a total of two, and he would scream the other 22 hours and like bloody murder, screaming, and I have 24 hours by myself and so and you know, that's not a job you can just call him sick, for you know, you know he's the guy who has to be there no matter what. And so I was so discouraged and I just kept asking and asking and everyone just kept telling me, you know, he's just a stubborn baby. And I'm like I've never met a baby like this before. And I have a little sister and she has Down syndrome and I'm quite a few years older than her and I remember her being a baby and I don't remember that at all. And so with all those things together, that really added onto that. So I feel terrible. I have a baby who's screaming.

Speaker 2: 29:24

It ended up that he had a tongue tie and he couldn't latch right and I got mastitis, and so I have all baby who's screaming. It ended up that he had a tongue tie and he couldn't latch right and I got mastitis, and so I have all these things going on and I wasn't expressing that I was sinking very well, except for being angry, and I think I didn't even associate what I was feeling with postpartum depression, because I took that as more of like a I'm going to feel down and baby blues, when I had a lot of anger and I had a lot of rage and like I didn't want to be away from my baby but I also kind of couldn't stand to be near my baby at the same time. So as they're asking me you know those routine questions at your checkups nobody's mentioning things like that, and so I'm just thinking like, oh my gosh, I'm the worst mom ever because I'm so angry and I don't like I don't want to get a 50 view because it hurts and I don't know if that's normal but I'm not getting answers, and so there was so much around that that caused a lot of anxiety and so getting outside for me and going for walks and allowing him to take a breath if he went outside then he'd stop crying. So we did spend a lot of time doing that, but it gave me a lot of anxiety around my second pregnancy and labor and delivery, which my baby, my little girl, was night and day. She slept through the night from the day she was born and you know, I think God just graced me with a better experience after that and I didn't have any stitches and all that. I had a really, really, really hard labor and pregnancy.

Speaker 2: 30:49

But the postpartum section, in my opinion, is so much I think it's harder. I think postpartum is the most challenging task that women are given with and you're not given with a lot of resources or knowledge about it, like we're talking about, and so, yeah, I think that's such a big one and that's so hard to then add in I want to look good and feel good and I don't know how to do that because that seems impossible. And this time around with my second baby, who's a year, I remember telling my husband after I had our baby, rather than just spiraling into that sort of depression and anxiety of I'm never going to look the same, and probably even more so now because it's my second baby, because that's something that I kept getting told to, oh well, just wait till your second or just wait till your third or things like that, and you know that that sticks with you, for sure those comments stick.

Speaker 2: 31:41

And so I was so nervous and I finally just told him. I was like you know what, I had our baby. It was a couple of days later and I was like you know what? No-transcript, like that's totally okay. I was like that can be changed later on. Right now I'm just going to enjoy having a little baby who is quiet and smelling me and things like that, and so that's a big one for me is like okay, I don't like the way I look right now, and that's okay, because I think that's something also that we get told a lot now, like I think we're almost switching sides a little bit to being like you know, shaming, you're kind of shaming, or how do I word that? That's kind of shame. To say I don't like the way I look is a little bit shamed now.

Speaker 1: 32:30

Like it's like toxic positivity.

Speaker 2: 32:32

Yes, exactly yes.

Speaker 3: 32:34

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 32:34

Yeah, and so I think that's the other side of that too is like to be able to say I don't like the way I look, but that's okay, and you know, not obsessing about. Not obsessing about it is the hard part but is really, you know, important. But yeah, that was like. It's almost like I had the two opposites. Like my first pregnancy was like you have to get back in shape, and then the second pregnancy was like don't worry about getting back in shape because you know everybody's just going to love you for you, and like that's you know that's true and that's good. They should, yeah, but I want to feel good. So you know, what can I be doing? So that's you know both sides and say, okay, that's fine, both are good. Now let's do it in a sustainable and in a healthy way and not just like throw you to the wolves and not just leave you to figure it out by yourself.

Speaker 1: 33:27

Yeah, now, you touched on a few points and one thing that struck with me is like when you say being careful of who you follow and you know I have learned a lot through this space when it comes to mental health or fitness, or just like what moms need like products. It is such a huge consumer market that is called pregnancy and postpartum that billions and billions and billions of dollars are spent to advertise towards moms who are pregnant or postpartum and to go towards our pain points or vulnerability points. And to go towards our pain points, our vulnerability points, right, and so it is targeted at you, even to the point of the Instagram algorithm. Right Of like what you watch and you'll see the rest, or what you search and then your ads, so to know that people know that you're looking. We want to fulfill our inner pains and needs, right, like I'm a good mom.

Speaker 1: 34:18

Well, this mom's doing this. Maybe I need to do this, or look like this or buy this.

Speaker 1: 34:21

Right and so just to be cautious of knowing your own truth that you are a great mom, If you don't need anything extra, you are a great mom and we all struggle. And to look back and just say, you know, just like most holidays, it's very commercialized, you know. So the same thing is happening. But to be very thoughtful of when you're following someone, or if you're engaging in their content and you want to, or their workouts or what they are presenting in the world of influencers, right Like you know those products and that is it.

Speaker 1: 34:56

Are they doing it for the right reasons? Do they have research behind it? Are they properly trained? So I love that point.

Speaker 1: 35:01

And then when with your, when you talk about the rage, I think that is not talked about enough. I had postpartum depression, severely the first, and I did not experience rage. It was. It was very hopelessness, no way out, spiraling. Four months postpartum was really my rock bottom and you know, overcame that with therapy and reaching out. And then with my youngest son, I learned after effect. I struggled with rage and it was before.

Speaker 1: 35:31

No one spoke about being, you know, angry mom and just like, literally how you described it of I didn't want to leave him with someone but I did not want to really be around him and I did not know how to say that to people, right? Or my irritability level was really quick. I, you know, I found myself throwing something against the wall one day and I was like what is happening? And then that whole shame and guilt that you feel, it's like who am I? And like kind of mom am I? But that is anger. Rage is postpartum. Rage is a subset of depression and it really comes from unmet needs, expectations and feeling of hopelessness. But I thank you for sharing that, because people would look at you and say you know she looks great, she's living in Hawaii, she's this, but like that, they don't know what you went through you know, and they don't know how you overcame that.

Speaker 1: 36:30

So I guess the question is what helped you kind of get out of that really?

Speaker 3: 36:33

dark time.

Speaker 1: 36:34

What was, besides going outside, and you know I mean you had the odds against you with like I think, like all your people, that you were turning to like professionals. Right, we're kind of like you know, it'll be fine, or there's no resources. So how did you overcome this?

Speaker 2: 36:49

Yeah, that was an interesting time too, Because at that time my husband and I had moved to the island of Kauai. So we live on Oahu. We were on Kauai so we had no family and we didn't know anybody there, and he was going through his fire academy and that was during COVID, and so we couldn't do anything, we couldn't go anywhere and Kauai was very locked down, so nothing was open. So that was a very like lonely time. And, yeah, I would say the biggest things that helped me were I changed my diet slightly. So first I started with the mentality of trying to just get back into shape and so I tried the keto diet right away, and keto totally made my milk supply go away and so all of a sudden I'm freaking out because I want to nurse my baby to at least one years old and now my milk's dwindling. So I changed that and so switching from eating a lot of sugary junk food to making a little bit better choices with my diet really did help, because sugar and those things do play an effect on how you're feeling and different ways that your brain reacts and things like that. And I also quit putting the pressure off myself to be like this perfect influencer who you know. I can get up every day without a cup of coffee and tackle the day and whatever. If you need that cup of coffee, if you need to have to and be a good mom, you know like feel bad and have your cup of coffee. So things like that making some friends, some mom friends, and asking for help. When I needed help, that was a big one of like hey, I need to be able to walk away for a little bit, and recognizing that it would be beneficial for me to walk away from our son for a little bit and not because I felt entitled to do so, but I felt like it would be mentally very helpful for me. I also added in some different supplements like fish oils, organic fish oils and things like that that are supposed to help with some of those issues. So I did a little bit more research on that, but I'd say the biggest ones for me were community and just finding some friendships and some friends and also realizing and calling it out for what it was realizing.

Speaker 2: 38:58

Okay, I think I have postpartum depression and it's something I'm really struggling with. That was a really hard thing for me to admit to my husband because I felt like that made me a little bit weaker. I felt like I should be able to be a mom and get it done. Something magical should just make me a good mom when I give birth and that's just not the case. That's something that's very learned, I think, throughout your entire life, and so being able to call it for what it was, and even calling it for what it is, I feel like, can be freeing to a degree to be able to say you know, it's not even just me, but this is like something that I'm struggling with and you're kind of able to disassociate yourself from the problem and work through the problem. Because I feel like if you think it's just only yourself and this is like, by nature, who I'm bound to be that's really hard to think on and accept and that feels very hopeless to try and change that, but to realize that there is something going on and kind of feeding it.

Speaker 2: 39:55

And that was another one learning how to get our son to sleep. You know that was a big one he. You know he didn't sleep through the night for seven months, seven or eight months, and so he would sleep. The longest stretch he had slept in the first eight months of his life was four hours, and so the lack of sleep was hard and I wish I would have. You know, my husband offered all the time I'll take him. Why don't you lay down and rest? But I was so fixated on being the best mom that I couldn't do that, and I wish I would have done that. So being able to receive that you know, being a good mom doesn't mean doing everything at once. That's a good one, that was a helpful one.

Speaker 2: 40:38

And then another thing, just for me personally was just like because I do go to church and I am a Bible-believing Christian and things like that. It was just my normal things of praying and reading my Bible and those things that I had always done and held very near and dear before. But let go to the wayside because I didn't have the time, and I really didn't have the time. Who has the time when your baby's screaming in your ear for 22 hours?

Speaker 2: 41:00

And I might've had the time, but I didn't have the mental ability to do that, but to be able to say like, hey, I need 20 minutes to be able to sit here and read my Bible and pray. Just do those things on my own and for myself and with myself without a child nearby, is something that really helped me out of that. And then even in this second postpartum season, it was remembering those things beforehand and not spiraling into crazy anxiety of like what if I get postpartum depression again? Because I think that is such a big anxiety of like, oh, I can't do that again, I don't want to do that again. But being able to recognize like oh, I can't do that again, I don't want to do that again. But being able to recognize like okay, I've done that before. If that so happens again, I know some tools that might be able to help me in advance.

Speaker 1: 41:48

So I think those are some of the things. I think those are so great and I had to learn it. I still have to remind myself daily. Mom's struggle with this is that you are worthy of a break. You are. It is not making you selfish or guilty. It's making you a better mom too. It was told to me. Finally, you know the baby's screaming, screaming, but I'm in a safe place. You can take that five, two minutes and you know they're safe. You can walk to other rooms and you can deep breathe. Or you can just take a minute, or it is okay for your spouse or someone you trust to let you get three or four hours of sleep. You know that's fine.

Speaker 1: 42:25

It is again like we're breaking what's ingrained in us, that we have to do it all for everybody. Look this way and smile, and that is not true. And I resonated a lot with what you said and that is the whole point of this podcast and our company is for a mom to hear something you've said or something I've said today and say I felt that way too and have a name it. So we always say name to tame it, because it does like you said. It takes that pressure off.

Speaker 1: 42:54

It's not a Sarah thing, it's not a McKenna thing. It is the most common complication of pregnancy, which is maternal mental health issues, from depression, anxiety, ocd, rage, ptsd, the most common. So we are not told about the most common thing. So then when it happens to us because odds are, the more pregnancies we have, us or someone we know will experience this yeah, and you feel like it's yourself and you're just shamed and the fear of failure and then you think, is it ever going to get better? And you spiral from it. But that is the whole point of this and I really thank you for your vulnerability and sharing that, because that is how we make moms know they're not alone in this.

Speaker 2: 43:37

Yeah, absolutely, and that's something that I really like to encourage moms to do, and I'm also because of what I do, you know, first and foremost, I'm all about making sure that you know you're mentally in a good space, because if you're not mentally in a good space, it's really hard to be a good mom, it's really hard to be a good wife, it's really hard to just even be a good you. That's really challenging and that saying of the mom sort of sets the tone for the house. I found to be very true on those days that I'm really struggling with being angry and overstimulated and whatnot, and I have a real quick temper. That really translates to my whole family. And so realizing that and realizing, okay, what are the things that I can do throughout the day that help me be able to be better for my family Because that's where I like my focus to be is like, how could I be better?

Speaker 2: 44:30

For you guys and for me, that is exercising, like I do feel better, and there is, like you know, there are so many studies on mental health and physical health and exercising and how movement and all that go hand in hand, and so that is something that I like to remind moms of like, even on a day where you may not feel like it, if you're able to get in some sort of movement, chances are you probably will feel better. And for me, especially with like the rage, like working out and sort of like sweating and just kind of like, it just kind of almost feels like it's like kind of pushing some of that out when I'm doing it.

Speaker 1: 45:07

What's somatic movement, honestly, of when you're pushing weights or you're pulling that push, pull movement is a way and it's research to get your body out of almost that heightened state that we live at, especially when you're struggling with irritability and anger or if you've had a traumatic experience. You can literally get stuck and fight or freeze, and to really movement. It's proven so you're 100% correct on that. It is a walk. I've always said there's not. I've yet to find anything that a walk has not brought me some kind of clarity piece or kind of just reset me on truly. My situation hasn't changed. I have changed how I look at that situation.

Speaker 2: 45:47

Yes, absolutely yeah. What's interesting is my mom before she had my sister who has the Alzheimer's syndrome she was a early interventionist with families with kids with special needs, and so what she did in the company she worked for was they would go and they would diagnose the children and then they would give tools to families on kind of how to help them cope throughout the day. And one of the big things that they did is a lot of kids with special needs have sensory issues and so it's a lot the squeezing or going and letting them do an obstacle course before they need to get a chore done, or sort of having an outlet of some sort or just knowing those things that help your specific child. So that was kind of her job and so that's something that I kind of like to think like myself. I kind of feel like a little bit of an early interventionist for my family and for, hopefully, other moms of like okay, how can we help you cope with these things? Because and I've even translated some of those things that we did for myself because, like, overstimulation as a mom is just such a real thing, whether it's the visual noise of a messy house or the audible noise of kids yelling or crying and, you know, maybe someone has the TV. It's just, it's so much and I really struggle with that. And so being able to say, okay, like, what tools do I have in my belt that I know for me work and how can I use those throughout the day, it's so helpful. And, like you said, walk is one of those things for you and that's one of those things for me too. So, especially starting the day off, like if you can just kind of start that, that's so helpful.

Speaker 2: 47:20

And I think something that a lot of women struggle with in that postpartum season is not leaving their house.

Speaker 2: 47:26

And I have a lot of friends who you know one, two, three months goes by and they've never left their house and they've gone for, you know, a walk to the car to go to a doctor's appointment. And to me that's like I totally get that, because your house is your safe space and you can kind of just be a mess in your house. But in some ways, the sort of setting yourself up to have to get out and have to, you know, maybe be a little bit more presentable and have to get a little movement in, I think can be super helpful too, because I think mind is, you know, kind of our biggest muscle. That's going to trump everything else, and so if we're not able to go, okay, I'm kind of going to override how I'm feeling a little bit and go for that walk. That's going to put us, I think, in a little bit better space, and that's kind of what I try to do, and try to try what I encourage, without doing too much.

Speaker 1: 48:19

No, I love all that. How can our listeners find you? We'll link everything on our show note if they're listening in the car. How do they find you on Instagram and learn more about and see what you offer?

Speaker 2: 48:27

My Instagram is at McKenna Poe my name is M-C-K-E-N-N-A and then P-O-U Well, it's Poe like the panda from Kung Fu Panda. P-o-u Well, it's Poe like the panda from Cogs and Panda Love that yeah. And then I have a website and it's called cowgirlupmamacom, and so that's kind of like my little slogan. So that's what it's under. It's not under my name, and then you'll see on there I have a training app and it's kind of under the works.

Speaker 2: 48:52

Right now I'm going to be putting up some postpartum stuff and prenatal stuff and things like that, just so you can, like I said, have something that you can follow without having to worry about. And then I have an ebook. I just put out an ebook which is your first six weeks postpartum, so those really important weeks that I was talking about and it's going to walk you through a lot of basics. And then it's also going to walk you through those first six weeks of what you should be doing specifically. And I tried to make it like you had said. You don't need that overwhelm of something that's hard to digest, and so I like to give a lot of information if I can, but I feel like in those first six weeks, that's not something you need. You just probably want someone to tell you do this to help yourself, and so that's kind of how I have it laid out and made so that's on my website for sale too. Is that for six weeks?

Speaker 1: 49:38

ebook. That's so great and we ask all our guests this, so and there's no right and wrong answer, but we always say what would McKenna now tell very early pregnant McKenna Like, what is your advice to yourself about motherhood? What would you tell her?

Speaker 2: 50:08

Yeah, that's a good one. I would say what would you tell her? A season that's going to change and probably have a new heart, but it is a season. So let go of those expectations and that worry of this is your new forever, and know that that's subject to change at some point.

Speaker 1: 50:27

I love that. And McKenna, thank you. You have been a lot of light in this and I will link everything on the podcast episodes. But thank you so much and just keep encouraging, because we need more voices like you out there. And again, I just appreciate you getting up so early to talk to us.

Speaker 2: 50:45

Yeah, thank you so much for asking me to be on. It was super fun.

Speaker 1: 50:49

All right, guys. You will hear from us next week on our next episode. Have a great week, bye, bye.

Speaker 3: 50:56

Maternal mental health is as important as physical health. The Preview Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables, like anxiety, anger and even apathy. Hosted by CEO founder Sarah Parkhurst and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay, each episode focuses on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum. Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges. Each episode focuses on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum. Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges, as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms. You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time. Please know you're not alone on this journey. We're here to help.