Speaker 1: 0:10

Hi guys, welcome to Preview Alliance podcast. This is Sarah, and I am with a very special guest today. She will totally make moms who are freaking out about school starting and where our kids need to be with reading and literacy and knowing their phonics, feel better. So this is a perfect time. Our kids are getting back in, so tune in and here we go. Hi, pam, welcome to Freeview Alliance podcast. Hey, great to see you, sarah, so glad to be here. I am very glad to be talking to you. Side note listeners me and I already had a freak out session with Pam before we've recorded, so this episode is just as much for me as it is for everybody else. But, pam, before we really dive into the nitty gritty, please tell our listeners about you and what wonderful things you're doing and why we've brought you on today.

Speaker 2: 1:03

Sure, yes, well, great to meet everybody through the podcast. I'm Pam Allen, I'm an author, I'm an entrepreneur and I'm a literacy advocate, and my work has always been about helping children learn to read and write from the very youngest ages, babyhood and on, and also I'm a mom of two amazing daughters and a sort of new two-year-old little grandson, with another one on the way. So we have our house is always full of children, babies, neighbors, children, nephews, nieces, et cetera. I've created a lot of programs for helping parents and caregivers and teachers help children learn to read, and I've also created programs for school districts that have been very successfully scaled across the country and around the world, including Lit Camp and World Read Aloud Day. So I'm very happy to be here. My newest endeavor is a new program called Palastown, which is coming out in August. That will help parents to help their kids learn to read really early.

Speaker 1: 2:02

I love that. So you know, I had freaked out to Panthers. My oldest is going to kindergarten and we go in and they're like we're going to see his readiness and I think and Pam knows this I have failed a little bit in the sense of I kind of assumed his preschool is doing a lot, and you know they are.

Speaker 1: 2:21

I'm not bashing them by any means, but I guess I didn't really know where he was and they're like he needs to be reading, coming into kindergarten, he needs to do all these things. And I freaked out, took it upon myself, thought, well, how hard is it to teach a kid to read? And then literally started, found Pam, and was like Pam, I'm failing, I don't know what I'm doing, I don't know what are sight words, where do I even begin? And I said, you know, if I'm struggling with this, I know other moms are and, as always, we want to go to the experts and we want to turn to trusted resources. So that's why Pam's here. So, pam, let's start at ground zero. What if a mom's going? Okay, school is like next month, pam, what do I do?

Speaker 2: 3:05

Yeah, I mean what you're saying. First of all, I do want to say that I think sometimes schools put a lot of pressure on parents in unrealistic ways. So one thing I'll say is that it's your right as a parent in a school, in any school, to really be kind of advocating for your child. Say, look I'm, and you can ask. Asking questions is good. Just to say, listen, I need to sort of understand a little bit more what you mean by reading by the time they enter kindergarten, because that's not really what most schools are saying. So my question for you is what is your expectation? What does that mean to you? Because what that means to them might simply be beginning alphabet awareness. It might not be actually stretching sounds all throughout the pages. So one thing is just to really have a good conversation, find someone either you know who your child's teacher is going to be, or talk directly to the principal. You have every right to do that. That's part of your rights as a parent in a district and or in a private school setting and to sit down and say can I have 20 minutes of your time on a Zoom? I just want to get a little more information, because I'm not sure I really fully understand, when you say that, what that actually means. So I think that's one thing, just to really know and have good clarity, and you have every right to do that. So that's one. The second thing is there are some wonderful things that we can do at home with our children that will help prepare them for school, and every child is very, very different, it is true that way, and also every school community is very different, for example. That's going to very much affect the way your child thinks about reading, the things that we can do at home before our child enters school in a positive way, not to try to quote catch up, but to just be where your child is.

Speaker 2: 5:01

There are a few things. One is reading aloud is actually a lot more important than people realize. It's something everyone knows is fun to do and we tend to do it before the child goes to bed at night and things like that. But actually to try to embed that a little bit more, even during the waking hours, like the breakfast time, when they come home from a play date, on a play date, to actually have books easily accessible and reading aloud to the child without any expectation. You don't have to ask questions like a teacher, simply just read aloud, read aloud, read aloud. It's a lot more effective than you might think and in fact studies show children who are read aloud to every day perform academically up to a year and a half better than children who are not read aloud to every day, and that you can do that now if you weren't doing it before. If anyone's listening and feels oh no, I wasn't, don't worry, children are so open and available to it and it's incredible.

Speaker 2: 5:54

And, by the way, you don't have to have a million books either. They love to hear books again and again and, by the way, that's actually a positive, not a negative, for pre-reading. So, for example, my grandson I read aloud to him. Obviously I read aloud to him a lot and there are certain books, like the spot books, that he really loves and he is starting to memorize those books. So when he looks at the words now he's starting to point, and I'm always pointing at words with him, like I'll point at the cover and show him that words have meaning. That's really a nice thing to do. I wouldn't overdo it to the point where they can't even enjoy the story because you're just pointing at the words, but the cover page. I would definitely do. And if you see repeating words, I would do that. Like spot is a repeating word, or you know where's spot that repeats throughout that book is, you can use your pointer finger because the teacher is going to do that when it's time to start school.

Speaker 2: 6:43

The other thing is alphabet charts are amazing and there are some really good ones. You can find them on Instagram. You can find them in like Lakeshore is a great company that has really nice little products. We're going to have a beautiful one in August that's coming out. Alphabet charts are amazing because even just putting them, making them into laminating an alphabet chart, making it a placemat there's some really good again online you can find those pretty easily. Chart making it a placemat, there's some really good again. Online you can find those pretty easily. And actually just being playful with an alphabet chart, having them, use Cheerios to put, like, where can we find the B for bear? Put your Cheerio there. Those are really fun ways to actually learn the alphabet.

Speaker 2: 7:20

And then the third thing is just really about. You had mentioned sight words and phonics. Both of those things are things that you're the mom, the dad, the grandparent. You shouldn't have to suddenly become like a master's in reading education. But there are some very basic, simple things that you can do. One on the phonics side is you can sing to your child and you can do a lot of chants and nursery rhymes and those things are actually really good for getting your child ready for phonics in school nursery rhymes, and those things are actually really good for getting your child ready for phonics in school. Just the sound of language is really really important. And then I'll say one last thing about this on the phonics side is the very best way to help your child with phonics is to actually believe it or not.

Speaker 2: 7:59

Not about reading, it's about writing. Put out a little writer's corner, put blank paper and a lot of different materials like crayons, pastels, markers, anything that you're not worried is going to ruin your furniture, washable, everything. But put all those things out and then say use language like do you want to write a story about a backhoe today, as opposed to, do you want to draw a picture? Because once they start hearing that, they're earlier going to go to the language, to the alphabet. So I might say, oh, you're drawing a picture of backhoe, let's put a, b there, because that stands for backhoe, and then we would put the B and I would draw the B.

Speaker 2: 8:36

And then Gus might say to me, oh, lala, lala did that. He says Lala did that. And then I say, okay, and now Gaga can do it too. So then he'll draw a B. I mean, he's just practicing and I might have to guide his hands to do. He's two and a half right now, but again that might be happening when they're four or five too. That's okay as well, wherever they're at. And you know, that's the thing is like these are all little tips, but they're big actually. For a little child those are big things. So that's just a few ideas.

Speaker 1: 9:03

I love that. Now, what do you say to the mom that's going? This is really stressful to me. This is anxiety inducing. You know, I think it's one of those things, right, that school in general, that new chapter, we're talking that big chapter and listeners, don't worry, we're going to pan back or we're going to go like baby to. You know, start in school. So we'll have another episode where we'll talk things you can start doing literally early on. So this is more aimed to our listeners. Who's starting kind of like that elementary school or they're in elementary school. This anxiety inducing, right, Because you're seeing your kids struggle. You don't know how to teach it to do better. Sometimes relationships with teachers can be a little iffy, you know. You don't want to be that pushy parent, you don't want to step over right. You don't want to be that pushy parent. You don't want to step over right. How do you navigate from your experience dealing with so many parents and kids and school systems? Like? What words of advice can you speak there?

Speaker 2: 9:56

That's such a huge one and, by the way, it's very important to pay attention to that because you're going to have that throughout your child's when they're in high school. Even so, it's a really good sort of relationship work that you can do now when your child is small. My two words of advice that I have stood me in very good stead, as well as both as a parent, you know, and just as someone, an educator are observations and wonderings. Observations and wonderings, you know sort of there's a lot of emotion around raising our own children. We like love them and want to protect them. We're the mother bear, you know. Sort of there's a lot of emotion around raising our own children. We like, love them and want to protect them. We're the mother bear, you know. And so the teacher has to grapple with 25 or more of those mother bears every day. So we have to kind of honor that as well.

Speaker 2: 10:39

But observations and wonderings can never really lead to conflict unless you know this teacher is horrible. Most of the time teachers are trying their best and trying as hard as they can. One is the observation that you make about your child at home. They can't challenge that. So if you say I've been observing that my child is not yet making alphabet letters, or I'm observing that my child loves to read books more than once, or I'm observing my child doesn't like to sit still, or my child is getting anxious when you send home work, or my child feels anxious if I'm pressing too much on.

Speaker 2: 11:14

The teacher can't refute that. It's real, you're seeing it, you know better, you're in the home, you're just observing what you see. And then that opens up for a really good conversation with the teacher. And then the second thing is the wondering. So I'm wondering what you suggest then, if we have a few a month or so before school starts, I'm wondering what your best advice is for. Or I'm wondering what you do when a child is feeling hesitant or uneasy. So the observing and wondering, observing and wondering and I think that's like just A leads to better conversation and you're not losing sort of ground as the mother bear. You're basically making it clear I'm my child's advocate, but you're saying it in a way that's opening the door for a relationship which is going to be really good for your child.

Speaker 1: 11:58

I love that. And then so let's say, the listener is like we had a really bad year last year. You know at school, and you know at school and you know again. This is I always tell my son. He's like well, mom, why does this word you know have this sound and this one doesn't? And I'm like no, no, I didn't. You know, I'm not a master. I think I think how to navigate when you don't know. But I think half of it is saying I don't know to my kid let's get curious and let's figure it out. But if they're like, I want to learn too, pam, like I want to be able to have response. Where do you lead them and direct them? I know pal sounds coming, but where can like? They're like, I want to be educated with them, right, I want to know this lingo of phonics, because that was a million moons ago for us and I don't even know if I really was taught like the phonics that's being taught today.

Speaker 2: 12:42

To be honest, yeah, I mean, I think that first of all this is the thing is that first of all, your child is going to school, so they're going to get a lot at school that's going to start. Coming home, you're going to see some things that you can just repeat, like if you see that, oh, you can invite your child to be your co-journeyor in this and say, oh, did you learn how to sound out some words? Can you show me how you did that? And you're not pretending, you're actually like how do you do that? You know, because in school they're going to learn how to tap out the sounds of words. They're going to learn how to do their beat with their feet to the sounds of words. And in some ways I think like we've made phonics into something very complicated when it's actually not that complicated and you can use your best instinct is actually oftentimes going to be a little more fun than what happens in schools with these prescribed programs. But I think one is to say to your child like what did you do? Let's do that too. And then follow their lead. And then the second thing is really almost using your own, like if you're looking at a children's book for the first time is to say, if I'm just looking at this through the lens of sounds and letters and I'm using my sort of objectively best judgment, you could simply say like do you see the letter P in that word? Let's just point at the letter P. Or if you say, let's listen to the sounds in that word, let's listen to the sound of pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. Can we put a beat to that? Pop pop pop? And then what sound rhymes with pop, pop, pop, top, top, top, bop, bop, bop. That's really what phonics is.

Speaker 2: 14:15

Phonics is literally like early parenting on steroids. You know what I mean? Like that's really what it is. So I mean I think sometimes school districts, they all have us think it's like really complicated and like you have to have all kinds of extra training and there is a lot to be said for learning for sure. Just like when you have a baby and you're learning how to strap the baby into the car seat. You look on YouTube and you find some videos. And I think that's where my aim is for parents is, I really want to give you those strategies, because why should you have to do all the heavy lifting? And I think, before that moment happens.

Speaker 2: 14:48

I think the main thing is trust your judgment, trust your instinct and also follow your child's lead. If you say what sounds do we hear in that word? And your child says op, op, pop, pop, op, op, all you need to say is that's awesome. Like you don't need to correct them, you know, just be awesome with them. I think that we you know, phonics is about listening to sounds. It's about listening to sounds and letters and, like I said earlier, the other really good thing that you can do, that you don't need a lot of training for, is to actually turn it around to writing, so that your children are practicing sounds and letters in their writing. It's really important they do that and oftentimes all we're doing is practicing sounds and letters and reading, which is very passive. You know, dr Seuss already wrote that book and now we're supposed to be. You know, cat on hat in mat, that's good, but the child sitting down at the table and trying to write their first sounds, that's even better.

Speaker 1: 15:43

Okay, so that's even better. And then what I mean, I'm just, I love learning honestly how you would do things. So you, with your grandson, what age did you really? I mean, you probably started a baby, but if you're, if moms are listening to you, know again, we will do a whole episode on this. But, given us, what age did you kind of start working with him?

Speaker 2: 16:09

So, as far as, like you know, a kind of I mean I'll say this like I feel and I'm a literacy educator, so everyone listening just be at ease with that Like part of my goal is to give you guys some really easy tips that you can do without having spent, you know, a million years like studying this stuff. But I'll say, for me, I've been thinking about Gus as a literacy learner from the moment of his birth. Like I've been thinking that was lullabies and a lot of singing, even if you don't think your voice is very good. And also, by the way, it's awesome to let them have them listen to your phone on Spotify and all of that, but there's nothing better than the sound of your actual voice, with them singing, chanting, rhyming right from the very beginning. And then the other thing is when we're getting to like now, when he's looking at books like these are the palestine books and they're very cute and adorable and they've got. You know, this is the print that's in there. I'm already. What I'm thinking about is I'm directing his eye to the print because I want them. I mean, obviously, you see how great these illustrations are and he's gonna, he loves those.

Speaker 2: 17:11

But I also I do know, like, for example, the repeating words in here are like honk, honk, bud honks on the brass trumpet, honk, honk, and that repeats itself. And a lot of children's books have a lot of repetition in them. I'll start, I'm already doing this. I'm pointing at the repetition. That's like a very simple thing that you can do. So he knows already in his mind those words are showing up like a lot in this book and he's not really like initially he's not really drawing a connection between whatever this black mark is on the page and the sound I'm making. But when he hears that story for the third time and I say Bud honks on the brass trumpet, honk, honk, this time I'm now pointing honk, honk, honk, honk, and he starts doing that and slowly but surely I see his mind click, click, click. That word looks like what Lala is saying and that is an important connection that he's making. So I'm starting to do pointing is big for me, like I will point a lot, like I'm really wanting him to see there is a connection between what we're reading aloud and what the word is that he sees. The other thing I'll do is I will model my own reading so like let's say we do get to.

Speaker 2: 18:23

Let's think about this book, like here Pag loves the song, that's this page. Pag loves the song, and that. That you know, that word loves actually is not phonetic, like it's not spelled L-U-V-Z, right. So and I'm going to sometimes, when I do a read aloud now with Gus and he's two and a half, I'll say Pag loves the song. Wow, that word loves, that's wow. I love the way that looks.

Speaker 2: 18:48

You know, I'll point out words that I call power, words that you actually can't stretch the sounds of those words. And then finally, like when I'm reading the book, I am also pausing. At the end, let's say here the last page says Pag thanks them all. Get well, pag. And I'll pause and then I might repeat that Pag thanks them all, get well, pag. With a lot of expression. And then I'll say to Gus can you read that page? And he'll say get well, pag. Because he just remembers that I said that, not that he's really reading it, but that time I'll do it again with him Get well, peg. And we do it together. But again, now I'm pointing again and then so he's like oh interesting, I didn't know I was doing that, you know. So we have that.

Speaker 2: 19:34

And then I pause one last time at the end of that read and I ask a comprehension question, like something like as simple as did you like that story? Gus? And he might not even. He's only two and a half, so he sort of understands what I'm saying. But I I'll say lala really liked that story. That was a fun story. I liked how pag thanked everybody at the end. So even if I'm kind of thinking, does gus understand all of this? Right now it's baking into him that words have meaning, words have meaning, words have meaning. So words have meaning, words have meaning. So he's more interested the next time he picks that book up about that page, about those things that look just like black marks, right now he sees that something that I'm saying, something Lala is saying, has significance here. So the comprehension questions like did you like that book or would you like to do something to help a friend, even if he's not totally there yet, and I can say Lala likes to help friends too. Lala will help Mez to cook the dinner. That's my husband. So even if he's not totally getting all of it, I'm already like a little bit ahead of him. So I'm always just a touch ahead. Without judging him. I'm not saying now, gus, you have to tell me if you liked it. No, you'll notice, I'm not judging him, I'm not putting him on the spot, I'm not making him feel bad. I'm simply modeling my own reading experience and I'm genuinely telling him how I feel about this book. I'm genuinely thinking how can I do something like what Pag's friends did? And then that is kind of part of the comprehension side, because we friends did, and then that is kind of part of the comprehension side because we can't.

Speaker 2: 21:05

Phonics are great, but we also must teach our children that these books mean something. And for me I felt like when I was working on this project I said I want these books to mean something. I don't want it to just be cat fat, rat, mat sat, because that's just like what is that you know? And but the nice thing about cat fat, mat sat rat is you can also do those things. You can cut up little cards, you can put rhyming words on the cards, you can lay the cards on the table and then say let's mix these up and make a poem or make a song Cat rat, mat, fat sat.

Speaker 2: 21:36

So I'll say okay, gus, let's mix up these, and Lala's going to choose three and I'm going to make a song from them the fat cat on the mat, the fat cat on the mat. And then he's not really yet reading them, but he goes, the fat cat on the mat, and he's seeing that I've got these cards that actually rhyme and it's just, it's a Lala game. It's not like some kind of standardized assessment. You know what I mean. So I think it's as simple as how can we have fun with language? I think that's the main thing.

Speaker 1: 22:07

I know me and every listener is like Pam, are you for hire for to be a grandma Like?

Speaker 2: 22:14

definitely.

Speaker 3: 22:14

Can we rent a grandma.

Speaker 1: 22:16

You know, but, I, think I came away so encouraged from our previous conversation and this one because I think there's a lot of pressure we put on ourselves because we want our kids to succeed in this, so uber competitive these days. Can we just talk for a second? The level of competitiveness that is put on these kids at age five and six is out of this world.

Speaker 2: 22:37

Yes, it is. Yes, it is it's. You know what the thing is. That's what I, you know.

Speaker 2: 22:42

I think for me I honestly and I've been, I think people who know me on social media will see I've been coming out very strongly against screens and the overuse of screens and the too much time kids are spending on them and the impact. It's not like screens are the only enemy to childhood. It's actually because, in moderation, I think a lot of things are really okay. You know what I mean, and so I think it's more about like, how are we, how are we our children's best advocate for a safe and happy and holistic childhood? Meaning it's not just about the things we're giving them or not giving them. It's about a sort of emotional sense of safety that they feel in being themselves. You know, like so when I think about whether, when a child is learning to walk, for example, you know, my one of our daughters walked at 10 months, the other walked at 15 months, and both of them are adult, beautiful women. They're adults that are doing great, like they walk just fine. You know what I mean. Like one is a lawyer, one is a doctor, they're like doing just fine. And you know I remember at the time you know you're just like, oh my gosh, like is which is? It? Was that early, is that late, I don't know what.

Speaker 2: 24:04

No matter what I read, you know I was like not going to feel settled and I, I, so I really empathize with that and I think, on the reading side of learning side, the very best thing you can do for your child honestly, if I look at this in the big picture and all the children that I have seen go through my doors is to really create for them a sense of in this place I'm just great, who I am. I am like really, because out in the other world we can't control that you know and and and I as much. But I think if they come home and they come around your dining room table or they're playing with their dress up box and they just know that you feel like they're just awesome. I know that sounds very simple, but for readers it's a really important thing when they're reading with you, not to say you already read that book or you need to read faster, or why doesn't my child know those sight words, is to just in that moment, say what if I said to myself this is the most amazing child the world has ever known.

Speaker 2: 24:54

You know my mother-in-law. She always says she's in her eighties now, but whenever we're together, all of us, she says, aren't we just the best family? And we always think that's so cute and fun. But you know, when I always think about that, she makes me feel better, like what a great thing to say, at the age of 83, that she is like. She always says that and it's like it makes you want to leave with this renewed sense of pride. This is our group. This is our group and we're together and I think the world is going to press on your child. The world is going to press on them Like that's the thing. You just pray that the world treats them well, but in the space of your home.

Speaker 2: 25:34

For readers for me, I see reading as a place to build a lot of safety and to say this is cozy, this is comfortable, this is joyous. That is the best work you can do for your child. That is, while all those forces are pressing, competition, everything else. We were always, you know, marched to our own drummer in our family about. Like you know, I saw my friends were taking their kids to all these after classes and the early classes, this, that, and I always thought my gut feeling is my kids. They need a lot of time to play, and so I just really stuck with that, and I think you know in retrospect also there's a lot of pedagogy around that how important that is too. So I feel like to create that emotional safety at home around reading is the best thing you can do for your child.

Speaker 1: 26:17

And I think, just taking it. I love it's freedom in what you're saying, especially to me. I know our listeners because you know why. You have an old. This may be your only child, this may be your third child. Whatever that you're, you're wrangling a lot, you're working, you're trying.

Speaker 1: 26:29

As moms, we always feel like we're never doing enough for everybody. Right, there's not enough of us in the guilt and the shame comes in and the anxiety and then, you know, in our mental health comes into play a lot. Right, but to hear an expert in literature and reading been there, done that, seen a zillion children come through and say, just love on your child, read together, make it fun. You don't have to go and spend a rabbit hole two or three hours talking to myself who YouTube, googled all these things that you know had me in a panic. You know the simple things that we've covered and knowing which resources to go to. So tell, how can they find more of your work? So they're like, okay, I need more Pam, she, I can't rent her, so where can I find more of her stuff?

Speaker 2: 27:13

Yes, yes, and we're going to have so much more for parents coming in the fall. So stay tuned because I'm with you a hundred percent. Like, I feel like the. You know what you do at home is. So the thing I'll say as an educator is for you to create that place of wellness and wellbeing and the coziness and that helps me more as a teacher than any other thing that you can do that those are the kids I know when I'm working in kindergartens and I say that child's had a positive experience at home with reading. We can do some more of the rest. You know what I mean. I think that.

Speaker 2: 27:55

But as far as tips and things like that, the way you can find me is my website is Pam Allen, p-a-m-a-l-l-y-n. As in nancycom. And then Dewey, which is my company that is creating Palatine, is called deweycommunitycom and it's D-E-W-E-Y communitycom and if you go over there you can just leave your name and contact info. You'll be the first to hear when Talestown is coming in September and we'll send you a little gift to get you started and we're going to guide everybody on this journey, because it is the missing piece. We feel like there is a missing piece here. There's a lot of help out there for new parents. A lot of help, but not a lot of help for reading. So we're going to do that better.

Speaker 1: 28:29

And Previa listeners. I'll make sure to link everything. I know a lot of everybody's in carpool dear to us, of your kids who listen to us. So you're like wait, I didn't catch that. Don't worry about that. I will put that in the show notes and then I will make sure that we will put it on all our platforms when you guys release and so that they can stay in touch. But, pam, I can't let you go without asking this one question I ask of all our guests. Okay, so what would Pam tell the Pam who that first pregnancy test you're staring at it about motherhood. What would you wish you know?

Speaker 2: 29:00

What I think I wish I knew. I think what I wish I knew is that the child has the best understanding of time. That when they're making you slow down or when you're feeling like you're about to be late for something and you're rushing, or when the child is just suddenly walking very slowly because they're looking down at like some dandelion that's growing through the crack in the sidewalk, I wish I just knew how incredibly fleeting that is and it's so precious. It's like everything about being alive and mortality, and how incredibly beautiful that is and how incredibly beautiful that is. And I think when you're a new parent, life is so busy and so hard and you're just learning how to be a parent.

Speaker 2: 29:49

So I'm not saying that savor every moment. I totally get it. I mean I still remember breastfeeding and my breasts were hurting and having a breast infection and I'm trying to get my kid over to pre-K. So I totally understand that and I think what I'm saying is not about like anything preachy, but just more about the emotion of being in the moment with that young child who's moving a little more slowly than you are is to just say there is something about that that's a lesson for us as humans and they're teaching us. There are teachers, so, and I think maybe that's it. I don't know if I would have still understood it then, but I do think I understand it better now and I I, I revere children. I think they're incredible teachers to us.

Speaker 1: 30:34

I love that and you're so right. I mean I'm so guilty of them, guilty of this morning trying to get them into the car. You know there was and I was just like, okay, great, but I need to hear that and I know we all need to hear that. We need more of you in our lives and our listeners. You will get more. But, pam, again you always make me feel like I'm doing okay and it's gonna be okay and I thank you for filling that huge gap in this learning community environment and skills that you're teaching us, because we were out here struggling it was the struggle bus until we found you and we're so excited. So thank you again.

Speaker 2: 31:10

Thank you, sarah, for everything you do and what a great community you have there. So I'm here to help, and I'm also just here to learn too, and thanks for having me and everybody have a great day.

Speaker 1: 31:20

All right, listeners, we'll see you next week.

Speaker 3: 31:24

Maternal mental health is as important as physical health. The Preview Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables, like anxiety, anger and even apathy. Hosted by CEO founder Sarah Parkhurst and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay, each episode focuses on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum. Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges, as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms. You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time. Please know you're not alone on this journey. We're here to help.