Speaker 1: 0:10

hey guys, welcome back to preview lions podcast. This is sarah and I'm with your favorite maternal mental health therapist, whitney. Hey, hey, whitney. So we're gonna do the episode and we're going to do the episode and we're going to talk as ourselves, in the sense of you're the therapist, I'm the client in therapy, because I have had so many premium moms who they're like okay, I want to start therapy. Is it going to be weird? What do I expect? Right? And the most common question I get is can I really say everything I want to say to my therapist?

Speaker 3: 0:51

You sure can. I've had clients ask me that before. They're like okay, so how open can I be with you? And I'm like it is a safe space here. But I do always tell people. The only time I would ever breach confidentiality is if you tell me that when you leave here you're going to harm yourself or somebody else and we talk through those things and there is still that commitment to that. Then I have to call 911. Okay, at that point in time I do have to breach confidentiality for the safety of yourself and others, but otherwise these four walls are secure. It is safe. You can say what you need to say.

Speaker 1: 1:28

I love that and so let's okay. So let's say I'll go back to when. Well, you know, I severe postpartum depression, so I was like I have to get into therapy. And going back to that time, it was like I had no choice, like I just knew that this was do or die, literally in a situation. And I do remember going and you know it was a whole ordeal and it was a family effort for this but thinking, oh man, what am I going to say? The first time? Because and I wish I would have known a few things about therapy and the first thing that I wish I would have known is that I cannot unpack 20, 30 something years in the first session with you.

Speaker 1: 2:19

I can't expect Whitney to fully understand the whole gamut in 50, 60 minutes, right? I also wish I would have known that you were not going to take my baby away, that you were not going to judge me, that I was going to shock you with something. I was going to say that, like I had to, like I didn't have to be hit your perfect, I didn't have to. Like say all my words correctly, I could cry, I could be like I don't know, whitney, you know all these things like. I think I thought in my head I had to have it together, I had to get it all out at once ooh, perfectionism.

Speaker 1: 3:01

right, I had to be a perfect little therapy client and I needed you to think, as my therapist, that I was a great client.

Speaker 3: 3:11

Yeah, that you had it all together. I do actually get that with clients sometimes and I tell them that you can't ace therapy.

Speaker 1: 3:21

And to me and to you it is our goal in life to ace things yeah, because we want to achieve those things but also I don't like failure eventually those sessions are?

Speaker 3: 3:34

they just stay surface level? And I'm all for like catching up, like hey, how are things going? Like I get it, like it does kind of help ease you into the session, absolutely, but we're talking five or ten minutes of kind of shooting the breeze. If we do multiple sessions at surface level, are we actually doing anything?

Speaker 1: 3:54

and that is something I had to learn in therapy, and it's a level of vulnerability, right. Oh, absolutely to say, and sometimes, and I've said, and I'm in therapy now, oh, absolutely To say, and sometimes, and I've said, and I'm in therapy now, there is things that I do not want to even recognize about myself, to even say it Right.

Speaker 3: 4:13

Well, it's not fun to be vulnerable with ourselves because then we're spotlighting things about ourselves that we don't like, that need to get worked on and that's just not enjoyable. I mean, just let's call it for what it is. And when we recognize those things, sometimes we either go into denial of oh, it's not that bad, I'm not that bad, or in more so my scenario, I hyper fixate on it and I think, oh, I'm a terrible person. Yeah, yeah, we internalize that.

Speaker 1: 4:43

What do you wish clients did in therapy to make it the most productive?

Speaker 3: 4:48

Oh, that's a good question. I wish that they knew that they don't have to impress me. I don't care if you say the right things, I don't care if you come dressed up or dressed down. I don't care if you come dressed up or dressed down. You know therapy is one of those. You need to be able to come as you are, emotionally, physically, whatever the case is. Do not try to impress your therapist.

Speaker 3: 5:15

Don't put that pressure on yourself, because that really does hinder the therapeutic relationship You're not going to feel like you can trust your therapist because you're masking for them, yeah, and that's it's just going to be hard to really get things done.

Speaker 3: 5:30

You know, I want people to realize that you're allowed to be vulnerable, that it's not a bad thing to be vulnerable, that it's not shameful, it's not a character flaw, it's not a moral failing nothing of that nature, absolutely nothing of that nature.

Speaker 3: 5:45

I want people to realize that this should be your safe place, that you're allowed to talk about whatever it is that you need to talk about. You know, whether it's that you have deep, dark thoughts at times, whether it's that you're caught off guard, that you had an intrusive thought and you haven't had one in months and you're thinking why on earth am I having one now? It could be that you want to talk about something that happened between you and your significant other, but it's about sex and you're like I'm too scared to bring that up. In therapy that tends to be a theme and maybe it's because we're in the South and religion, I don't know, but that seems to be a theme where people are like, well, I'm embarrassed to talk about this. I'm like, but you shouldn't be Now again, will I force someone to be just uncomfortable? Absolutely not. But I don't want them to feel like they have to reserve themselves.

Speaker 1: 6:34

Right, You're allowed to be authentic. It's hard right, Because I think I've learned in therapy. It's like she only knows what I tell her.

Speaker 3: 6:45

Correct. We can only do with what we're told, and.

Speaker 1: 6:48

I have rose colored glasses at times, of Sarah's version and I also don't like being called out shocker for everybody in my life who knows me. But she does in a very respectful way, but she does in a very respectful way to say you handled that situation this way. Next time, why don't you think about X, y and Z, right, so? But she can only do that and teach me if I let her. And that's the key, I think, with therapy is I you know, you can only let them in and you can only let them do their job if you allow it. And that is, and I think people come into therapy and they're like I'm going to say two sentences. The therapist is legit, going to get again my 20 history of how my father is a narcissist. This happened during my birth. This is my history with alcohol, blah, blah, blah In two sentences and go Whitney, fix me yeah.

Speaker 3: 7:54

And that's the thing is. You know, I'm not a bandaid. Yeah, I'm not a bandaid. I cannot fix something that quickly. It would be great if I could. I'd work myself out of a job real fast. But the thing is, healing is not immediate, progress is not immediate and it's not linear.

Speaker 3: 8:13

We're not going to go steps one, two, three, four, five, and we're going to go in a row and then we're done. We're going to go one, two, throw on the brakes before we get to three, may have to reverse back to one, and so often clients feel like they are actually regressing. When that happens and I encourage you to reframe that that you're not regressing you have not lost what you've worked for. It is that we have a new and different obstacle that we're learning how to navigate, and life is always going to do that. I say it all the time, like life has been lifing, because we might be cruising along for a little bit and inevitably something comes up. Something comes up.

Speaker 1: 8:57

Yeah, let's go to the first therapy session. What are you generally, what's going through Whitney's mind when you're meeting someone for their first time? That kind of conversation, because if our listeners are like I'm starting therapy, it'd be great to kind of just know what to expect. Get a little insider sneak peek inside of the therapist's brain here to help them. I mean, I think it's weird. I was gonna say my first therapy sessions have been weird and it's not been like that. These, I mean, in some it's been weird because I'm like it's not me and that person didn't necessarily mesh and the others was. It was just like I had a lot to unpack. Yeah, it's just gonna take time oh, absolutely.

Speaker 3: 9:40

I was about to say you can't expect to unpack everything in the first session. It's an hour. We can't unpack your life in an hour. Not trying to be rude, but it's just not humanly possible. So to get back to your question of what goes through my mind with an initial session with someone, so I do always try to read the intake paperwork because I feel like that gives me an idea of what is actually bringing someone to me, what are areas that are why it's important to do it.

Speaker 3: 10:07

Oh, absolutely Absolutely. You need to do the intake paperwork because it gives me just a snapshot of either current things that are going on that are a stress for you. Maybe there's family history things going on, patterns of behavior could be a previous diagnosis, could be that you're like, hey, I'm going through a life transition and just don't really know how to navigate it. It could be a variety of things that pops up in the intake paperwork. So when someone comes in, they sit down. I tell them I'm very transparent. I'm like, hey, write your intake paperwork. It looks like these are some things that you know you may want to be focused on. I said but what is bringing you to therapy? What do you want to focus on? So that I'm not dismissive of things that you actually want to talk about. That way I'm not over in left field talking about something on your intake paperwork when that might have been like five or six down on your list. You know I want to focus on the things that the client views as important or urgent.

Speaker 1: 11:08

Okay, good, so going in, and you know it doesn't have to be specific, right, because sometimes I remember when it just be how you're feeling, right, like I'm not feeling like myself. I don't want to be like I've noticed or I cannot get out of the thoughts I have and I don't like that. I find no joy in this situation, or I keep having nightmares of this situation, or I lost my baby and or I'm trying to get pregnant. It's not happening and it's happening for everybody else, or my parents, I just lost my parents or I'm going through a divorce, right, like it doesn't have to be. It can be like all this is going around and I'm feeling X, y and Z. Whitney, you know it's you. We don't want you to diagnose yourself and go and be like Whitney, I have blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, fix me. But we want you to be a little stark, self-curious of those things that maybe you're showing or acting or feeling that you don't want to feel, or like I can't live in this space.

Speaker 3: 12:16

Right. So and I want people to be receptive to when I say, well, here are some coping skills that we can utilize to kind of take the edge off. And I always tell people, like the cold technique or deep breathing, or grounding, all of that it's not a cure for what you are going through, it is a distraction for the brain and it is a way to take that edge off. That way we can start to rewire those thoughts and that's where the healing and the fixing takes its place. It's not that I put an ice pack on my neck. Yeah, that's not what actually healed. That was enough of a distraction so that I could tell my brain, whoa, hey, you're not in danger. Deep breaths, like let's pull ourselves down from this kind of thing.

Speaker 3: 12:59

So in that first session and I'm talking about coping skills frequently I feel like I'm a bit of a detective where I'm asking well, what about this, what about this? What about this pattern? What about your parents? What was that dynamic, like Things of that nature, and so that way it's giving me a little bit more of the root. Like we see the tree, the trees are symptoms. We see that and we know, okay, I need to trim this branch. I need to trim over here, but really to heal I need to look at that root.

Speaker 3: 13:31

And that's where things like attachment style quiz comes into play. And, again, that's never a diagnosis, but it does give us good insight into how we handle interpersonal dynamics. I'm a huge fan of the Enneagram. I feel like it's one of the more accurate personality assessments and it has helped, given me insight into why I do the things that I do and so kind of utilizing those things. That way. It's not a diagnosis, it's more of providing insight, and so there can be times where you know people have come in before and they're like well, my doctor diagnosed me with blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 3: 14:04

And I'm like, okay, well, what about? Are you experiencing this? Are you experiencing that? But you know I'm going through the, the criteria of it all and they're saying, no, no, it's actually more like this. Or oh, I'm having an intrusive thought, or oh, I'm having nightmares, or I'm having hot flashes. When I think about it, I'm like, oh well, not, I'm not an MD, I'm not a nurse practitioner, I'm not a psychiatrist. But we're not actually checking those boxes for that diagnosis. It sounds a little bit more like PTSD or OCD or you know what have you, and so kind of guiding them with that and then to, while I can't prescribe. We talk about medication. Is it helpful? Did you have negative side effects with it? Oh, you're just about to start it. Okay, here are the negative side effects you need to be aware of and the timeframe that those negative side effects can actually occur.

Speaker 1: 14:55

Very yeah, so it is.

Speaker 3: 14:57

It's a lot of digging and a lot of coping.

Speaker 1: 15:00

It's a lot.

Speaker 3: 15:01

It's a lot of digging and a lot of coping. It's a lot, it's a lot of coping, and I feel like I do information overload sometimes for the client, and I always feel bad for the client when I do that. It's never intentional, but I'm like, oh, we need to do this, oh, we need to Like. For me it's almost exciting because I'm like, oh, we can do this and that can be really helpful and and I get really excited over it. So then I feel like I do information over to the client sometimes.

Speaker 1: 15:22

Because I'm like well and Well, because it's like I'm sure it's difficult for you to like see obvious things that like you're, like it is fixable, it is treatable. It is like we can get you out of this space. It's like don't live in it. And I guess the next question is it's like it varies so much.

Speaker 3: 15:46

I mean, most of our listeners know about my own grief journey. That was at the end of 2022. If someone comes in and they have experienced loss or if there's details that are similar to my boss and I was like I need to figure out how to cope with this, because there is something called countertransference and that is where a therapist can project their own emotions, feelings, things like that onto a client and it's actually against our code of ethics to do that. And I did not want to project my grief onto the client because there were some similarities there, there were some sharing of dates and things like that, and I was like I want to be very aware that I don't put that onto that client, because that's not fair and it's not ethical. And so just talking with them of well, you know, you're human, you're not a robot, you know, and you're allowed to be a little teary eyed, you're allowed to have that empathy.

Speaker 3: 16:55

But one thing that I have started doing is either having my bottle of water on my table next to me or my tumbler with a straw and, if I start to feel those emotions, just taking a sip of water, kind of using those grounding techniques on myself to be like you're allowed to feel these things, but let's just not express it right now, yeah. So sometimes it can be very heavy, especially if there's anything that's similar to a hard situation that I've been through, or even if I haven't experienced what they've experienced. If I have a mom come in and she's lost her baby, how am I not going to feel heavy? Yeah, how is that not going to be devastating for me?

Speaker 2: 17:34

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 17:39

And so you know it's okay that I feel those things and I recognize that again, I'm not a robot, I'm human. I should feel those things because that also shows I have empathy. It shows that I'm not this sociopath that just doesn't care about anybody. You know what I mean. Like it shows that I'm a genuine person. But I do need to be careful with how much I express to clients.

Speaker 3: 17:57

You know, if someone comes in, it's been so eyeopening, doing like family and couples and things like that, where I'm ever thinking, oh my goodness gracious, like I'm very fortunate to not have those scenarios at home. Like it's just very sad to hear what people go through and I am such a fixer that I'm like I want to get you out of that. But also it's not as simple as someone packing their bags and leaving. So you know, those situations I don't necessarily feel heavy or emotional after. I'm more so of, ok, I need to equip them. So I kind of pull back from that thinking OK, we need to talk about psychoeducation on what does narcissism look like? What does borderline look like? What does financial abuse look like? Giving them that education, telling them how we can establish boundaries if they get to a point where they feel like they can leave, even working with them, on how do we execute that plan? What is the safest thing for us to do for them?

Speaker 3: 18:56

And then you know, I do have happy sessions, I do. I have clients. That experience wins and I want to celebrate that with them because we need to. And again, I'm not a robot Like I'm allowed to say that's amazing, I'm so. And again, I'm not a robot Like I'm allowed to say that's amazing. I'm so happy for you, I'm proud for you.

Speaker 3: 19:12

I actually had a client this week that we were able to discharge or terminate services after about a year of working with each other because they had made so much progress and it was a mutual thing. I asked him in the session. I was like, hey, because this is where you're at, like, do you feel a need to keep doing therapy? And they said, you know I was questioning the same thing when I pulled up today. Like, do I need this on a regular basis anymore? So with that we were able to mutually terminate and I was able to celebrate with them their wins but also say, hey, you know, if life gets in the way, again call, you can set up an appointment. So it is a wide range of emotions.

Speaker 1: 19:55

I love that and I think you know when I think therapy, you know people are like, oh, if I start, am I forever in it? And to that Whitney's point, no, and there could be. Situations like that are very difficult. That, yeah, that regular therapy session really is something you should not miss, that you dive into, because literally every therapy session there's a new piece of the puzzle that has to be uncovered, right, or you're like this situation is keeps going and you know we've had previous moms with all sorts of maternal mental health issues come through and and you know, and some have been like I've done three or four sessions and you know I feel great.

Speaker 1: 20:36

Some are like I need, I've been with her for two years and I still need her for two years. You know all that can continue. And then there's some that again, like life happens, we get it through it. They come back and they're like, hey, this just happened in my life. And so your journey of therapy and how often you go, when you go, if it's lifelong, if it's situational, it all varies, right, and I think that's important for people to know. It's not like you start therapy. You never get off. You know the therapy train Absolutely Well.

Speaker 3: 21:11

That's one thing I never really have determination discussion when someone starts therapy because we just don't know how long it's going to last. Now again, when we start to see that consistent progress, that consistent ability to manage things, that you know we're having more better days than not and when those bad days hit we're able to use our coping skills, we're able to ground all of those things, when I start to see that consistency month in and month out, then I pose that question of hey, you're doing really well, do you want to continue? Because I'm never going to tell someone you can't, but it could be that they say you know what, let me just come quarterly. Okay, we can do that. They can do a check-in quarterly for maintenance mode. We can do that. That is doable and I have a few clients like that, that they come like once every two months.

Speaker 1: 22:06

Yeah, again, you don't have to be in a crisis either to start therapy right Like so we always say we do a risk assessment on our premium moms and we follow the U cards you were dealt. You can't control that will be impactful on your mental health. So let's go ahead, get a therapist on board, let's get to know that you guys get to know each other, have some plans, get some coping skills Right. So that is what I tell people all the time. It's like you know, I have my child has a pediatrician. I go to that pediatrician for yearly visits, right. I? If something goes wrong, I have them to help fix it. It's not like a crisis. We're not saying therapy is like oh my gosh, you know somebody, this happens, you call, but you have that person in place for a physical health. Having that person in place for a mental health, depending on where you're at I think it's so smart and so easy.

Speaker 3: 23:12

Honestly, Absolutely, Absolutely, Because you have them in, you know you're in their back pocket. Essentially and that's how it is with my therapist is I do see her on a more situational as needed basis and that's kind of the agreement we've come to.

Speaker 1: 23:26

Yeah Well, let's finish this up with some. Let's just make people a little bit more comfortable, because I'll say some things I've mentioned in therapy. You say some things you've heard in therapy that you're like I don't blink an eye about that. People are going back to do Whitney, really can I say that? And you're not going to, you know, fall off out of your seat or think, oh boy, we've got some issues.

Speaker 1: 23:51

You know being, like you said, being very open about you know, it's so interesting, my therapist, when I will explain certain dynamics that exist in situations and relationships in my life. Right, and literally just like you're like I don't even think a movie could depict some of these things. Right, and literally just like you're like I don't even think a movie could depict some of these things, right, and she'll go, ok, tell me more. Or she'll say I've never had her say, oh my, this is, I've never heard that. Right, and I've told her some crazy things, crazy things. So what's some crazy, whitney, or let's not maybe crazy is the wrong word, but what is some more more said than not, things that people expect a reaction from you or expect you to literally fall at your chair, but you're like I've heard it.

Speaker 3: 24:40

Well, this isn't well as far as like the therapy session. I think I've only heard it once in office. I heard it a few more times when I worked in the hospital was that someone you know would come home from work or whatever and catch their spouse having an affair in the act and I was like, oh so, are you seeing a lawyer? Yet you know that's usually my next question. I'm like that's probably grounds to leave. Can you leave safely? Do you have the ability to leave Now? I hurt for them because that's a horrible situation to be caught in, like your whole world just got turned upside down. I'm not harsh with it, but I'm over here thinking that's not a sustainable relationship and it shouldn't be. You should not stay in a relationship like that, where there's not even the respect, where someone won't cheat on you.

Speaker 1: 25:28

Intrusive thoughts, I'm sure moms have said Whitney, I have had thoughts of throwing my baby out the window. I've had thoughts of you know, running away. I have had thoughts of you know I can quickly go from sickness to ICU to death, to I see this. I've had thoughts of X.

Speaker 3: 25:52

I've had a client this week even that said you know, I felt like I was doing really, really well. And then I was making supper washing students, just a routine, normal thing. And she said I just thought you know what my baby and husband would be better off without me. And she was so unnerved that she even had that thought. She was so taken back because there was no trigger that she knew of for it. She didn't know why she thought it, she doesn't want to do it, she doesn't want to act on anything. And that's when I started saying okay, well, from what you're telling me, that's not something you want to pursue. So you're not A thought is a thought.

Speaker 3: 26:36

And then you know we started talking a little bit more. It turns out her child is going through the four-month sleep regression. She's been waking up every hour on the hour. I said, oh, so we have some sleep depression making things worse. And she said you know, I didn't even connect that because I said when did the intrusive thoughts start? And she said about two weeks ago. And I said and you said he started sleeping poorly three weeks ago and so it was one of those. She was almost reassured that there was a cause for it, that she's just not thinking these thoughts up, just because and so she would have never felt comfortable if she wouldn't have shared that with you, right.

Speaker 3: 27:13

Because I'm over here like, well, we don't have a way to execute that. We don't have a plan, a means, a timeframe. Like doesn't sound like you want to pursue that and she's like I don't. I'm like, well, then you're not.

Speaker 1: 27:28

Yeah, I love that. I think it's again. It takes you time because if you've never had a safe person, I think that's a. I think that's an important topic too. A lot of people have never felt really safe to say, talk about mental health, have a safe person, non-judgmental, have someone on their team to equip them, want them to succeed. So it can be difficult and, let's be honest, society don't want us to talk about mental health, you know it's like it's a whole thing, even though it shouldn't be so.

Speaker 1: 27:57

When you do find that therapist, we hope that you know they're there for you. You can. It is what you put into it too. If you don't tell Whitney, whitney ain't going to know. Whitney can't tell that mom what sleep deprivation will trigger intrusive thoughts and what she experienced if Whitney doesn't hear that.

Speaker 3: 28:17

So give it a whirl. I can't help with what I don't know.

Speaker 1: 28:20

Give it a whirl If you're on the fence. We challenge you to try it. And if you do first is hardest Do your intake paperwork and if you're like, okay, okay, cool, where do I find this magical therapist there? A psychology, is it psychology today, whitney, or psychology, what is it?

Speaker 3: 28:38

psychology todaycom. You can filter out by location in person and virtual, which most places offer both. You can filter out by specialties. If that's something that you want, you can filter out by specialties, if that's something that you want. You can filter out by if you want a male or female therapist, and then more often than not they do have their insurances that they're credentialed with listed. But if you're ever curious like hey, do you accept Aetna, cigna, blue Cross, viva, whatever your insurance is, you can always call that office as well and say hey, I was looking at someone's profile in psychology today. I was curious are y'all credentialed with fill-in-the-blank insurance?

Speaker 1: 29:20

And then you can always ask about a cash rate if that might be cheaper versus sometimes your deductible is so high. And then Postpartum Support International we love Whitney was trained by them. They have a registry too that you can go on and find a provider if it's a maternal mental health support to you, and I would challenge you, if you are going through infertility or pregnancy, postpartum, having a therapist that is maternal mental health trained will only behoove you. So they need to be aware. But OK, guys, we have dove in. You're not going to shock your therapist when you say what you want to say. You're not, You're not and it's going to be fine.

Speaker 2: 29:55

So we'll see you next week, See ya, maternal mental health is as important as physical health. The Preview Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables, like anxiety, anger and even apathy. Hosted by CEO founder Sarah Parkhurst and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay, each episode focuses on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum. Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges, as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms. You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time. Please know you're not alone on this journey. We're here to help.