Speaker 1: 0:10

Hey guys, welcome back to the Preview Alliance podcast. This is Sarah and today's guest I have. You guys may know them from Instagram. They are the mom and psychologist. Caitlin and Chelsea are going to be on today and we're going to discuss highly sensitive parents, children, anger and, most importantly, I want to make sure that you guys are aware of them and their resources to help us care and navigate postpartum. So I'm super excited. So stay tuned, okay, guys. So we are so excited today to welcome Chelsea. You guys know her. She's part of Mama Psychologist and we're huge fans and if you're on Instagram, I guarantee you've seen one of their posts that's helped you through parenting. So welcome, chelsea, to the Privy Alliance podcast. I'm so excited to have you today. Thank you so much for having me. If a listener is living on a rock and doesn't know who you guys are, can you give us a little intro of who you are and kind of why you founded Mama Psychologist?

Speaker 2: 1:06

Yeah, absolutely so. I'm one half my partner in crime and best friend Caitlin is the other. We are both registered psychologists in Alberta, canada, and we have very similar stories. Actually, we both started in the child and adolescent mental health space. We did our master's and registration at the same time, so we did all that together. Caitlin became a mom a couple of years before I did so. She had her first in 2017. And then we actually both. I was pregnant with my first and she was pregnant with her second at the same time. So, anyway, my whole bridal party and myself got pregnant at the same time, so our kids are like six weeks to four months apart. It's so funny.

Speaker 2: 1:41

And so, you know, Caitlin talks a lot about her journey and her struggle regarding postpartum anxiety was her biggest kind of struggle and for me, my first was actually born three months early. So we did NICU life and we were displaced from our home and so, you know, I just felt like I got thrown into motherhood in a tumultuous way and I felt really lost in that. And Caitlin and I were both talking and we're like we're, you know, quote unquote trained to do this. We help families, we work with families, like we know all the coping strategies and we're floundering here. So you know, we can't be the only ones that feel this way.

Speaker 2: 2:21

And I joke that we were in our postpartum fog and she's like do you want to start an Instagram? And like, talk about our resources and this information and some of our own journey. And I was like that sounds like a great idea, as I think I'm still in the NICU, like not aware of my surroundings, and the idea of it was just kind of to share, yeah, again, our resources, our own experiences, and it kind of took a life of its own and almost five years later, we're still doing it and it's growing and developing and we're developing new resources and all of these things. So it's been a happy accident, I guess.

Speaker 1: 2:58

I love it and I love connecting to our listeners, moms, who get it. You guys have young kids. You're in the thick of it with us. You're trying to I mean real life experiences, right, so it's easy for you to put out content. I always say because we're living this and you have such a personal tie to help moms. So thank you for really recognizing that you're right, like even those who are well-equipped right Textbook wise or training wise we can still motherhood can knock us on our you know, on our backs and going like what's happening. So one thing that really wanted to dive into and knew you'd be the right person to talk to this is I've been seeing it going around instagram. I feel like you're it's a buzzword highly sensitive child and parent yeah, I absolutely.

Speaker 1: 3:45

It's a buzzword. It's a buzz and I think we all have. I think it's. You know. We have to be careful, in this day and age of so much information, to not label ourselves or our children. You know, with these buzzwords, right, but to really understand and say is this me, is this them? You know, is there things I can learn that will make my child, even if they're not highly sensitive and me, get through the day better?

Speaker 2: 4:08

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so when we're talking about, like, the highly sensitive child or the highly sensitive parent, what we're really talking about is the capacity to handle sensory stimulation and overall environment, right. So, depending on the research you're going going to read, approximately 30% of the population will identify or have these traits of being quote unquote highly sensitive. And so what I tell people, it's not necessarily an awful awful thing, it just it's really a personality characteristic that we can pay attention to and help us navigate parenting right, because sometimes when we do have a more emotionally sensitive or reactive child, that can be really exhausting as a parent, especially if you're also a highly sensitive parent, right. And so again, we're looking at emotional intensity.

Speaker 2: 4:55

So highly sensitive children or parents will often experience their emotions more deeply and have strong reactions to these emotions.

Speaker 2: 5:03

Even if it's positive or negative or kind of neutral, they just might have this bigger reaction overall. They're also more sensitive to sensory stimulation, so they can often be more overwhelmed by loud noises, by chaotic environments, right, when you're trying to parent, the kids are running around, the TV's on or the toy is singing and you can't figure yourself out, right, just because it's too much overwhelm. There also are deep thinkers often and deep processors, so they might ask really reflective questions, they might think about things deeply. You might, you know, you kind of see those like little wheels going in some of these kids and you're just like what are you thinking about? So those are some traits to kind of look out for. A lot of people get worried about like diagnosable, like things we often hear like autism, things like that, and they are different. So you know, if you are concerned about any diagnosable troubles, we always encourage you to reach out to a professional to help do that assessment, where this is specifically talking about these traits and characteristics, just to kind of make a differentiation between the two.

Speaker 1: 6:08

All right, okay, got that. And then you know, I believe my oldest has traits of being highly sensitive and I feel like I do as well, and maybe I didn't even, maybe it's been there my whole life and motherhood just got a little fire to things. So let's for a second talk about that mom, because I think it's hard, right, because we're overstimulated in general, right, especially. I had a NICU experience as well and just being in the NICU can be very overstimulating, right, like all the noises, the smells, the sounds, the people. So how have the listeners going? Okay, so on the day to day it's a lot for me. How do I know if I'm highly sensitive or it's just motherhood and maybe I've never been taught coping skills?

Speaker 2: 6:45

Absolutely. I think part of it is reflecting back. So what was I like before? Right, did I notice some of these traits, maybe on a different level? Right, because I do think motherhood, just your mental capacity is kind of pushed and that stimulation is pushed and all of those things. So it's often heightened, for sure.

Speaker 2: 7:02

But it's really important to say, okay, you know, when I was a kid, did I notice some of this within myself? Or you know, when I look back to before I had kids, what was I doing or what was I thinking? Or, you know, do I look back and go, oh, I was really emotionally reactive. Or do you have a family member that you can say, hey, did you notice any of this in me before? That I just didn't really realize. But the traits are very similar. They're going to be very similar to the child.

Speaker 2: 7:28

Right Again, feelings feelings deeply, thinking and processing deeply that more sensitive to noise, and this can also be touched to right. It's like, oh, I don't like the feeling of that sweater or I need to wear my comfy pants when I'm stressed, or, you know, like those kind of things where, like you, may be sensitive to the senses in general and the need for or, I guess, increase me, because I think every mom probably needs a stimulation break, like we all need some downtime or some sensory deprivation or different things like that. But it's maybe me needing it more frequently than maybe a friend or a family member might need that.

Speaker 1: 8:04

Gotcha it more frequently than maybe a friend or a family member might need that Gotcha. So what about? Do you often notice with clients or you know parents talking triggers? Is there common kind of triggers that you're seeing for a highly sensitive child? So our listeners can start kind of maybe looking at their day and saying, okay, if I'm over scheduling or if I know we're going to this party and it's going to be a lot like, what kind of triggers can we be aware of for a highly sensitive child or parent? That I always say knowing's half the battle, right Of what we're going to kind of have set ourselves up for success.

Speaker 2: 8:33

Yeah, paying attention to the environment, for sure, if you know, like after school can be a really big wind down time for highly sensitive kids.

Speaker 2: 8:41

So if, like, there's some times during the day in particular that you're like it's kind of like no one called a witching hour, but you know cause it's more related to babies, but it's kind of like, oh, we always struggle at this time of day, right, or it's always after this, like birthday parties. So different environments like that for sure, and also thinking about you know their emotional response to things. So you know discipline can be feel like a like you're like kind of walking a fine line. It can be really challenging because you know getting in trouble or you know receiving feedback that they interpret as negative or feels really hard. We, you know, we, some of these kids, when you give them feedback, they're like, oh, I'm really sorry, or they cry or right, they just like take it on. And you can kind of see that where other kids are like oops, and you know kind of carry on. So paying attention to how they respond to that discipline can also be a really good indication of how they're feeling in terms of that highly sensitive traits.

Speaker 1: 9:36

And let's talk about a situation here. So say you do have a highly sensitive kid and you, you know you're providing feedback and discipline, right, it's like, and they take on that shame and guilt and that like you could just see that you know how do you respond? Or what would you tell parents? Okay, yes, I have this in this situation. You know they have to know right from wrong. I'm trying everything. I know the normal parenting tricks are not working here. So, what can we do?

Speaker 2: 9:59

For sure. Well, I'm pretty sure my oldest is highly sensitive. I see it a lot and so I'll use myself as an example because it's kind of easier to kind of understand how I approach it or how I encourage parents to approach it too. So whenever there's anything like you know, don't hit your sibling, don't you know those kind of things, he'll often say things like oh, I'm bad, I'm the worst, you know he'll like really verbalize like I. You know I'm bad, I'm the worst, you know he'll like really verbalize like I, you know I'm like, why are you self disciplining? Like it's not even going any further than this, right, but you can kind of catch that because it's very impactful for for him to receive that feedback. And so I really emphasize the behavior over like him like I say Okay, no, it's not you, it's we, it's not kind to hit others, you know things like that.

Speaker 2: 10:47

So I really try to emphasize the behavior, I really try to emotion coach in those moments, so really paying attention to the feelings, like I can tell you're feeling embarrassed or you know, we try to talk it out if we can.

Speaker 2: 10:56

Sometimes we can't right if they it's too escalated, it's you know. I give him a space and I say you know I'm here when you're ready, or I'll check on you in a couple minutes and then I'll leave the room or I'll go give him some space and sit at the other side of the room aside time, right, depending on what's happening. So really, like coaching those emotions, helping him identify them, right, that it's the feeling that you're feeling. It's not necessarily the shame or guilt, embarrassment or jealousy or anger or sadness, like whatever might be coming up for you. So I'll do a lot of that and then also trying to just paying attention to okay, can we, you know, redirect, what else can we do? Emphasizing in other moments those, you know, positive characteristics, right, not that parents don't do that anyway, but no, just like, really I try to be really intentional with some of those things when I can, I love that and that's, that's a good point.

Speaker 1: 11:48

Now let's flip the script and say you're highly sensitive, we'll, we'll, we'll play here. And you're like, okay, the whininess of my children, the whines and it's and I think it is, you know, a lot of our listeners, the babies, you get them, they cry and, yes, that can be really triggering and stimulating too. But it's like when they start getting older and the whines and the kind of refusal or like the multiple requests, mommy, mommy, mommy, right, and you're just like, so let's say that situation to a mom's going, okay, that's me. What would you, chelsea, say to help that mom kind of get through that moment, give her some coping skills and learn? You know it's going to happen again and again, right, it's just, we're going to be dealt with it.

Speaker 2: 12:28

Yeah, absolutely. And it's hard as a highly sensitive parent, I think, because especially if you have a child, right, you're always soothing the emotions. You're always like running on empty sometimes, right, so it can be hard to really manage your own needs. So one really big thing that I encourage parents is a sensory break. I say lock yourself in the bathroom, but it's only because I feel like that's the only door that has a lock anymore. But you know, go to a space where you can turn off the lights, even if it's 30 seconds, right, and just like, take a couple deep breaths, have a reset.

Speaker 2: 12:58

If you have younger children, you know, if you can't necessarily leave them, headphones or earplugs are great, you can still visually watch them, but still kind of dampen some of that sound, turning off what you can, right, if there's toys that are really loud, or the TV's on or the radio's on, like music's playing, whatever, try to change the noise level where you can. Or I always say duct tape over the toys if you need to. Right, if it's loud and louder, like, try to dampen those when you can. That can be really helpful. Communicating your needs, if you do have support, is really important, right, like if you know, if you have a spouse that comes home in the evening and you're like, hey, I need 10, or you know, trying to communicate that as best as possible. If you don't have that, then are there other resources within your community that you can reach out to? Right, like if your child's in care? Is there a way to, like, use the car time to decompress or focus on listening to soothing music? Right, it's using the pockets of time that you do have just to try to refill that bucket and bring those moments down as best as you can.

Speaker 2: 14:03

Right, routine can be really great, right? Sometimes highly sensitive people love routine and knowing what's going to happen. Obviously, with kids that can be hard, but just kind of having even if it's like something that is a routine within your day. Right, if it's like I love doing my skincare or washing my face or, you know, at bedtime when the kids are down, I do XYZ. So just like trying to incorporate those things throughout the day and focusing on your own strengths.

Speaker 2: 14:29

Right, like, being highly sensitive does have its positive characteristics. It's not detrimental, it's not necessarily that anything's wrong with you. Right, there can be really empathetic. You can be really in tune with your kids' feelings right. There's a lot of strengths that can come with that. So giving yourself an opportunity to be like you know what's one thing that I feel like I rocked at motherhood today. Or you know what, what did I do that you know I feel like was a really good strength, and often it'd be emotion based. But you know what was really great about this that I, that I think I did, or that I caught?

Speaker 1: 15:26

no-transcript. It is just what we're dealt with and what we're going to work through with, and I love how you reframe there of like, well, what's the strengths there? You know he's going to be attention to detail. Really great, right? Or I now know how to. When he does hit his brother, which he will do you know, how to have that conversation For sure.

Speaker 1: 15:47

Absolutely Any other kind of last thoughts about highly sensitive child or parent, before we kind of turn and wanted to talk to you about anger, which I think kind of can go together, but any kind of last thoughts for our listeners that they need to take home about the highly sensitive.

Speaker 2: 16:03

I would also say it's okay if you lose it. Sometimes, right, like all parents are going to lose it. We're not all going to parent perfectly, perfectly I'll use air quotes and we're not all going to respond in the way that we want to in all of the moments. Right, there will be times where you lose their cool. You will be in the grocery store and you're just going to have to, like take your child out screaming like we've all been in there and that's okay. It doesn't mean you're you're doing anything wrong.

Speaker 2: 16:26

If you have those moments, it's about the repair, which may feed more into anger as well. But I think it's just important, because a lot of people will come to us and be like that's great, but like I can't do that all the time, and it's like, of course, not like there's real life that happens. And you know I'm not always emotion coaching my son. Sometimes like I'm like OK, we got to just like get out the door. Like I know your feelings are hurt, but we don't have, you know we don't have time for that, so it's OK that it's not all the time.

Speaker 1: 16:54

I love that and you're right, because it's best laid plans Right. But at least we know we're going to try and repair and I love that. The repair I think people don't talk about that enough. So, real quick, just how would you repair? Let's say we're in the grocery store, child's losing it. We have to just get up, go move on. You know it is what it is. We've lost our cool a little bit. Things have calmed down. How do we repair? Because parents are going. Maybe no one ever repaired with me when I was a kid, so it's weird for me. Or I'm trying, but or maybe it's old school mentality where they're like I'm trying to fight against, like I'm the parent, they're the child mentality of like, but their feelings still matter, like I don't know how to how to do this. I want to do this, but I don't know how.

Speaker 2: 17:35

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I just owning your own feelings right. It's like I'll often say to my son I say my son a lot because my daughter's a little bit younger, so he gets more of this, we have more of these conversations but I'll just be like I'm sorry, mommy got frustrated. I kind of lost my cool there. That's not really how I wanted to respond or something along those lines, and I'm going to try to do it different next time. And often he'll be like are you frustrated? And well, if we have a dialogue about it, we do. And if he's like, often he's like over and he's like, yeah, whatever, I'm not even thinking about it as, like you know, as a parent, you're like oh no, I'm just going to like stew on that moment. That was like not my best moment all day.

Speaker 2: 18:13

And we do this thing where we always like do you want to hug it out? And so we'll hug it out if we need to, or whatever.

Speaker 1: 18:20

I love that. That's wonderful. Okay, so we now know, we know more about our highly distanced parent and child. We know now repair, which I think is a great tool. And let's talk about anger, because I think it's not talked about enough. Is parents being angry in situations not knowing how to be angry because anger is not necessarily a bad thing, right, it's just how are you angry? And then when our child demonstrates anger, it can be scary, it can be confrontational to us, it can make us almost feel like am I doing this right? Because maybe I always go back to we may never have been allowed to be angry as a child, right? Or taught again what healthy anger looks like.

Speaker 2: 19:06

Absolutely. Yeah, a lot of people are scared of anger, for sure, because it's often can feel aggressive or look aggressive or has been right. There's a lot of like negative connotations that can come with anger for sure. So, in context of a parent, often I like to look at anger as like an unmet need, right, like what is that anger telling us? I like to look at anger as like an unmet need, right, like what is that anger telling us? So in like you hear it a lot in the postpartum phase, right, I was so angry and it felt so out of characteristic for me. I never really felt that before, right, so you know, it is doing a little bit of a deep dive.

Speaker 2: 19:35

Like what is that anger telling us? Like, of course we're going to have moments where it's just anger and we're just angry. Right, like things come up, we get cut off in traffic, we're not listened, our bound, like, right, like stuff happens and of course you're going to feel angry. But if it's like an ongoing, like this kind of burning anger or really difficult to regulate, then that's when we're like, okay, what, what more is going on, right, Are your boundaries being violated constantly? Are your needs not being met? You know, are you burnt out? What like? What does that look like? And so kind of exploring it and giving some of it a name, right, because I feel like when you feel like you're just angry, it can feel really overwhelming and it can feel kind of scary if you're not used to experiencing that emotion.

Speaker 1: 20:16

Right, yeah, I mean I experienced postpartum rage with especially my youngest and learning through this. You know it's a subset of depression. Again, it was not talked about, but I remember being really triggered and just again it was that almost immediate zero to a thousand I felt and seeing red and then couldn't, and a lot of times it was like sleep deprivation for me. That was my trigger and then I do still have to work on my anger now and I'm very transparent about this.

Speaker 1: 20:46

It's like the defiance my kids are defiant when they're acting wild, they're not listening, or one's going right, one's going left. We're in a public place and it's safety I'm trying concern, right. So it's like that lack of support, the lack of I mean this alone in this moment, like I don't know how to handle these emotions. So what are some kind of tools and coping skills? Because it's going to happen right, where we are going to feel that and or say you know what if something happens you know, there someone cuts us off in traffic does make us angry. How we're in, our kids are in the backseat watching us, right, how you process that is also eventually how they'll process it right.

Speaker 2: 21:29

Yeah, absolutely. And I would say, you know, if exploring it over time right, like, if it is that depression, if it is anxiety, right, are there other ways you can navigate it and learn to cope with the anxiety, for example, that's going to naturally decrease the anger can be super helpful. Easier said than done, of course, and a bit of a process, but if you are, if anyone listening is noticing anger, like consistently, I would definitely you know. If there are resources, there are, you do have access to a therapist. That's a great way to explore it.

Speaker 2: 21:50

But in the moment, more so, you know, I think it also depends on what kind of coping strategies you gravitate towards. Like, if you're more cerebral, you're more cognitive, you know. Can you talk yourself through it? Like, yeah, I recognize I'm angry. That was really frustrating. I'm really mad that that person cut me off and even if your kids are in the backseat, you can still talk about it. Like that, right, like, that's okay, talk about it out loud.

Speaker 2: 22:14

Or are you more of a sensory person, right? Do you need to blast some music or do you need to take a deep breath? Do you need to grab a drink of water? Right, like, go to the basics, keep it simple because it's really hard in the moment to think about okay, I'm going to do x, y, z, right? So if you go to your natural kind of coping strategy, sometimes it's easier because you can just incorporate it in right, I can, I can grab a drink, I can. You know, it's again simple, it seems really silly, but they can be really powerful, right? Taking deep breaths, splashing cold water on your face if you're not in the car, obviously, if it's a different setting, you know, but doing things like that are going to help your nervous system and that's what we want to do, right, we want to help it regulate.

Speaker 1: 22:53

Calm down. What about teaching children about anger? When parents come to you and say I think my child's really angry, you know how do you start talking through with them and what are you? You know how are we helping our child with anger? Because let's hope, hopefully we've done a deep dive. We've kind of learned how to calm ourselves, deal with our anger right. So now it's our turn to work with our children. What do you suggest?

Speaker 2: 23:17

Yeah, I would explore like a lot of, a lot of kids that I have worked with parents will say they're very angry and it's actually anxiety. So it would be again exploring if that's what's kind of coming up for them, right, because that fight or flee, those responses are really natural and so if it is the fight response it can be really helpful again to navigate that with them. Of course there's diagnosable things regarding anger. So exploring that with a family physician, a pediatrician, a therapist can always be good, just to rule anything out if you notice some really significant like defiant behavior. But I think also, you know, I do like to do a little bit of psycho ed, like okay, where, what's the developmental age they're at? What stage are they at? What's kind of more typical behavior that you're going to see?

Speaker 2: 23:59

Because I think also parents get a little bit worried like is what my child experiencing? What other children experience, right, like is my toddler supposed to throw a tantrum like this, or what do they look like? This feels really big for me, or this feels embarrassing for me, right, like there can be a lot of layers to that. So I like to do a little bit of that like where's your child at developmentally. What would we be seeing? And then, of course, working with the child in.

Speaker 2: 24:22

You know, externalization is a big one that we'll do. So, you know, can we how big is your anger? Or can we draw out? I have, you know, the paper and pen and what can your angry monster or whatever we want to call it look like? And and helping them give a name to it and a voice to it so they can understand it too right, and, of course, often them learning to regulate their anger is typically going to take a little bit longer, because they're also learning what it is right they're learning. Okay, how do I identify it? When is it coming up? Right, there's a lot to it. So, you know, learning those things and helping them gain insight into what it is and that it's a feeling, and you know how do we label it can all be really helpful tools to have in their toolbox.

Speaker 1: 25:10

At what and I love that you brought this up, because I think a lot of we do. We see something in our child and we go is everybody's kid doing this? You know, and I always preference is in on Instagram. You're not going to see anything, but often the highlight reel of people's lives You're not going to see their moments that their kid is probably do the same thing your kid's doing, right. When you say no, or you know you can't have that candy right now, or whatever, it is right. So where would they turn for some good kind of, I guess, benchmarks of like you said, of like okay, your child is three, this is what we would expect of a three-year-old right. This is appropriate versus not. How can they navigate that?

Speaker 2: 25:41

Yeah, absolutely. I don't know where it's based out of, but we have something called ages and stages and so it just kind of gives you an overview of what to expect, kind of. You know, baby, so zero to 12, toddler one to three, preschooler, grade schooler, so just some like typical behaviors that you might see. There's lots of different pediatricians online too that'll talk about like developmental stages and things like that. So that's always a great way to do it. Your public health nurse might have some information in your local community, so I would look to you know some of those more reputable spaces for that for sure and finding out okay. So we have something called Healthy Children or Healthy Children, healthy Parents. Anyways, it's a website and so it goes over all this information and it's run through like health services and things like that.

Speaker 1: 26:30

Okay, perfect. So I think that is a good thing of really realizing what is appropriate versus not, because you may have it in your mind and have you had parents that come to you and maybe had it one way in their mind of what a kid is supposed to do and not do, or you know again, the defiance or the hitting, the sibling, things that kind of make us uncomfortable sometimes as parents. Right, You're just like, and, like you said, embarrassed. There could be moments where you're just like, oh my gosh, they just did this and it's just understanding. That's part of them growing up and learning.

Speaker 1: 27:01

So what would you say of like, let's talk about like five six-year-olds or seven-year-olds. They, you know how to teach them to process through anger, you know? Is it learning your child and saying, okay, they need to really just push something, do some kind of heavy work, or are they the ones who they do? They want to have that kind of like a corner to retreat to and, like, take some breaths. What else could we kind of put for? Kind of, because we're having a lot of moms now reach out and say, okay, we're in the school years, a little bit. You know, toddlers are kind of their own creatures, right, but then when we're school age, we really have to start doing this, because maybe that's not, they're not getting that outlet in school, they're not being able to, so we really have to do work at home.

Speaker 2: 27:44

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And school is hard. So I always talk to parents first about this concept of like, after school, restraint collapse and what that basically is is, you know, kids who are able to regulate throughout the day and like, if they have to, right, if they're regulating all day long with their peers and with their teachers, sometimes they'll come home and just kind of it all falls apart. This isn't every kid, but a lot of parents that do struggle. They'll be like this behavior doesn't happen at school or I don't know why they come home and it happens. It's almost like they've used their resources of regulating and so when they come home they aren't able to do that as effectively anymore.

Speaker 2: 28:17

And so you know, I talked to parents about you know, can you have snacks in your car? Or, you know, is there? Can they have like 1020 minutes when they get home and like decompress, like what can that look like in your life? That's realistic, but gives them a little bit of space to be like maybe they need a bit of a reset, right, even at 789. And incorporating that, and you know, if your child is that child that needs space, that's okay, right, but you know, sometimes as a parent, that can feel uncomfortable, right. It's like I'm just leaving you and you know. But I think it's also verbalizing like mom's here, I'm in the other room if you need me or I'm going to come check on you, Right, and just like creating that dialogue and that communication of you can take space and that's okay, but I also want you to know I'm still here, right, and and balancing those own emotions that might come up for you as a parent and navigating that.

Speaker 1: 29:05

I love that. And do you think the same applies to maybe like holidays, right? Like the big events, or like a birthday, or where they kind of collapse afterwards? You know that emotional strength, just it's a lot on them, right? Like I think sometimes we have in our mind expectations of how certain events are going to go, and same thing as school. They are around, they're navigating it, and then you're just like wait, what's happening? You know this, this is everything you said you wanted to do, and then we're having this breakdown here. Or I mean, I remember one of my friends saying you know, the car ride home from school is some of our worst moments of the day and I'm like I can see that, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 29:43

And it could be that overstimulation piece too. Right, Like, they're just their sensory system is overloaded. So you know, if it is a hard card ride home, I'd say you know what could we do to make it easier? Right, Like, is it okay if your kid just gets in the car and you're like that's our silent time? Like you, don't, I'll into anything, we don't have to do anything, We'll just drive home, We'll put on some music or even silence, and then, when we get home, we'll do our check in and like how was your day? What you know? Like those kind of things. Right, Like, is that something that works for you? If so, great, right, Like, that's okay. It's just finding those like moments where you're like okay, how can we have a small reset if we're not able to do like a full thing?

Speaker 1: 30:22

I love that. And then you know, do you think you're, as parents come into you, are you seeing, as a mom yourself too, that this is kind of the generation where we're trying to really learn and work and do better? And it's exhausting and then trying to teach our kids at the same time? So just to kind of speak to this, we want to learn, we want to, like, help our kids, we want to handle our own issues Right, so we're not passing down. So do you see parents kind of come and say I'm tired, chelsea, like this is hard.

Speaker 2: 30:47

Oh, absolutely Right, and I think we're in a unique space because we're one of the first generations that are parenting in the social media or like digital age Right, so we're wanting to learn and grow, and that's great, but then we're also inundated with so much information that it's overwhelming, right. So it is, you know, having boundaries around that yourself and trying to find that balance of I can read, but I don't need to read everything, right, and you know what, what's important to me to learn about and what can I like let go of? Right, like focusing on your values. Some things are important to me that I'm like this is my line, this is what I want to invest my energy into, and you know, some other things I can I can let slide, like that's not something that I'm going to invest my time and energy into.

Speaker 1: 31:31

That's. That's a really great point, and you're right. You know, we are seeing things lifetime and I think we sometimes feel like if I don't learn this this way, my children's are going to fail, or if I don't do this, I'm a bad mom. Right, and it's just, it's really easy to spiral, especially with the algorithm of Instagram, to get us going down this pathway of what we should be doing or shouldn't be doing. So I appreciate you guys so much for just living your parody lives with us and sharing what you're learning. And something we ask all our guests I'm gonna ask you for let you go is if you could go back. So this is Chelsea now talking to Chelsea. When you first got that pregnancy positive test, what would you tell her about motherhood that you wish you would have been told?

Speaker 2: 32:15

oh, I think, and maybe this is because of my, my unexpected journey, but I think I would tell myself that it's not going to be pretty and and that, okay, and it's not going to go. It's a bit of a wild ride and that's okay. Like you can get through those hard times and those hard moments and it doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong, it's just part of the journey.

Speaker 1: 32:37

Yeah, absolutely. And again, there's so much we wish we would have known, right, but part of it is is you just don't know what. You don't know until you live it. And thank you for sharing just so much.

Speaker 1: 32:50

Just like nuggets I'm, just like my brain's like you know, taking all these nuggets in, but you know, and I'm sure our listeners are too, but guys, don't worry, we're going to link everything to find Chelsea and Caitlin and then you guys have a great book before we. Before you leave, just tell. Tell our listeners where to find you, how to read your book, where to access courses, just if they're like this is really feeling good to me. This is how I want to learn. Tell them where to learn.

Speaker 2: 33:13

Yeah, absolutely so. We do have our website, wwwmamapsychologistca, because we are Canadian, which a lot of people don't know, so the ca throws everybody off. I think it'll go to our website if you just quitcom by accident anyway, so there you can find our courses and our guides and our blog posts and all of that. We're most active on Instagram, for sure. We do have all of the other TikTok and whatever platforms, but you won't catch me dancing.

Speaker 2: 33:42

So, no dancing. I don't understand TikTok very well, but, yeah, primarily on Instagram. And then we do have our book not your mother's postpartum book that we wrote almost two years ago now, which is kind of crazy to say. I guess a year and a half it came out and basically we we wrote it as an encyclopedia for motherhood. So we kind of collected all of the issues that we've experienced, that everyone's talked about, that we've had training on, and we kind of put it all in one place because you know we talk a lot about you know baby milestones and you know what to look for and you know ages and stages and when they're going to crawl and all of these things.

Speaker 2: 34:19

But you know, we really felt like there wasn't that kind of book for mom and we also recognize that moms don't have time to necessarily sit down and read a 400 page book. So we wrote each chapter, from birth trauma, relationships, social media, birth trauma, pregnancy loss and infertility, all of these big topics and we kind of condensed it into some general information and some reflective questions and different things like that that you can do and even take with you if you do decide to do therapy with somebody. So it's all kind of laid out there almost alphabetical, but it's all there and, yeah, you can just go to whatever issue you feel like you're struggling like with the most with. If you're like you know what the mental load of motherhood is weighing me down, you can read it in, you know 10-15 minutes, get some general information about it, do the reflective exercises if you want to, and kind of hopefully just take away some information from there.

Speaker 1: 35:13

I love that and thank you again for creating this space, for sharing your knowledge and your experience. It's just. These are the type of conversations we should be having and to help each other, and I hate that what you experienced kind of led you on this journey, but you're really making a difference, so we appreciate that.

Speaker 2: 35:32

Oh, thank you. Yeah, no, I look back on my time and actually going through this was super healing for me, so it's the space that I like to work in now. And so you know, I think sometimes things as cheesy as it sounds, happen for a reason and lead you on a new path, and that's okay.

Speaker 1: 35:47

That is well. Thank you, chelsea and guys. I will link everything in the show notes because I know most of you guys are listening on the go. You got little ones. You're like I don't have time to write this down, so just check out our show notes and we will be tagging the mom psychologist in our Instagram post this week as we air the episode, and that way you can just go through and scroll and learn. So maybe when you're taking that decompressing break, you can learn a little bit. So, all right, chelsea, thank you so much, until next time, thank you.

Speaker 1: 36:16

Maternal mental health is as important as physical health. The Preview Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables, like anxiety, anger and even apathy. Hosted by CEO founder Sarah Parkhurst and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay, each episode focuses on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum. Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges, as well as access, tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms. You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time. Please know you're not alone on this journey. We're here to help.