Previa Alliance Podcast
There are few experiences as universal to human existence as pregnancy and childbirth, and yet its most difficult parts — perinatal mood and anxiety disorders (PMADs) — are still dealt with in the shadows, shrouded in stigma. The fact is 1 in 5 new and expecting birthing people will experience a PMAD, yet among those who do many are afraid to talk about it, some are not even aware they’re experiencing one, and others don’t know where to turn for help. The fact is, when someone suffers from a maternal mental health disorder it affects not only them, their babies, partners, and families - it impacts our communities.
In the Previa Alliance Podcast series, Sarah Parkhurst and Whitney Gay are giving air to a vastly untapped topic by creating a space for their guests — including survivors of PMADs and healthcare professionals in maternal mental health — to share their experiences and expertise openly. And in doing so, Sarah and Whitney make it easy to dig deep and get real about the facts of perinatal mental health, fostering discussions about the raw realities of motherhood. Not only will Previa Alliance Podcast listeners walk away from each episode with a sense of belonging, they’ll also be armed with evidence-based tools for healing, coping mechanisms, and the language to identify the signs and symptoms of PMADs — the necessary first steps in a path to treatment. The Previa Alliance Podcast series is intended for anyone considering pregnancy, currently pregnant, and postpartum as well as the families and communities who support them.
Sarah Parkhurst
Previa Alliance Podcast Co-host; Founder & CEO of Previa Alliance
A postpartum depression survivor and mom to two boys, Sarah is on a mission to destigmatize the experiences of perinatal mood and anxiety disorders (PMADs), and to educate the world on the complex reality of being a mom. Sarah has been working tirelessly to bring to light the experiences of women who have not only suffered a maternal mental health crisis but who have survived it and rebuilt their lives. By empowering women to share their own experiences, by sharing expert advice and trusted resources, and by advocating for health care providers and employers to provide support for these women and their families, Sarah believes as a society we can minimize the impact of the current maternal mental health crisis, while staving off future ones.
Whitney Gay
Previa Alliance Podcast Co-host; licensed clinician and therapist
For the past ten years, Whitney has been committed to helping women heal from the trauma of a postpartum mental health crisis as well as process the grief of a miscarriage or the loss of a baby. She believes that the power of compassion paired with developing critical coping skills helps moms to heal, rebuild, and eventually thrive. In the Previa Alliance Podcast series, Whitney not only shares her professional expertise, but also her own personal experiences of motherhood and recovery from grief.
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Previa Alliance Podcast
Moms Have a Witching Hour Too
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Ever wonder why the evening hours feel like they're designed to test every ounce of your patience? You're not alone. Join us as we explore the "witching hour" for moms—a time when exhaustion and sensory overload peak, much like it does for little ones. It's all about finding those small moments of relief and recognizing the importance of a supportive network to get you through.
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Moms and Kids Witching Hour
Speaker 1hey guys , welcome back to preview lions podcast . This is sarah and whitney . Okay , whitney , so this episode was inspired , like most of our episodes , by a text message . Uh-huh .
Speaker 2I can't be alone , sarah , you're not . I cannot be alone in this , and that's why .
Speaker 1I said Whitney , you're not alone , I'm not alone .
Speaker 2I can't be .
Speaker 1We haven't covered it , yet we're going to do this topic , so it's moms , have a witching hour too , mm-hmm .
Speaker 2So I'm going to elaborate , I'm going to tell on myself Okay , okay , so it was . I'm going to say , maybe like Wednesday or Thursday , it was later in the week . It wasn't the weekend though .
Speaker 2But , I just texted Sarah and I said moms have to have a witching hour too . Because my brain is just done , I'm touched out . I'm tired of still having to think ahead . I am cranky . With my children I can't be alone Like this is a witching hour , from like 530 or 6 until 730 bedtime . Yep , like I am cranky and I cannot be alone in this .
Speaker 1It cannot just be me , or maybe it is , it was not , and I think I wrote back like 100 , 100 or OMG , yes , and I think you know . So people are like , well , what is the witching hour ? So the witching hour term is traditionally thought with babies , right , and so with babies it happens around , you know , maybe I think the second or third week of their life , sometimes four , and nobody can really tell us why it's happening .
Speaker 2People have thoughts and feelings and experts say growth spurt , they're fatigued , they're over-sensory , they're cluster feeding colic , they're finally waking up and realizing this world is not the womb .
Speaker 1Whatever you say , they're more aware of their surroundings , and it can happen from 5 to 11 pm at night , and so our pregnant moms are like , oh great , thanks , thanks for this , yeah , appreciate it , and what you do . I remember the witching hour very well , and especially with James . I had this little baby carrier and I would put him in it and I would say , okay , well , he will not let me put him down and so I would just get my shoes on . I have someone help me with my shoes . I'd be like I'm going to go for a little walk , yeah , and me and him would both cry Uh-huh .
Speaker 2But you got it out .
Speaker 1I got it out . I did , but I think we had just moved and I'm sure our neighbors were just like , wow , really don't want to get to know her . But the things that helped him , whitney , I think , can help us , oh , I'm sure has to . So what did I do ? I went for a walk . You went for a walk . You got outside . I'm not saying you abandon your children and you exit the room and let it burn down and come back , but I've seen now and my children and me's witching hour . Yeah , getting outside , yes , is just something of like a change of environment . My senses feel good , right .
Speaker 2It kind of resets the brain .
Speaker 1I don't feel like a trapped animal in a cage , sometimes Right which the house can feel that way , absolutely . The drive home from school can feel that way .
Speaker 2Lord yes , so that getting outside movement sometimes we need that Absolutely Well , and now that we're getting into some better weather , the days are getting longer . A little extra sunshine .
Speaker 1The darkness is leaving us .
Speaker 2Right , a little more vitamin D , uh-huh , because who's to say this couldn't be a vitamin D deficiency ?
Speaker 1Well , and if you think about it right , like so , our circadian rhythm moms generally are up super early , yep , so we are starting and we may never get a full night rest . Nope , early , yep , so we are starting and we may never get a full night rest , you know . So we are already starting off on , let's say you know , towards empty versus full in our tank .
Speaker 1And then you have maybe went to work , you've dealt with all that . Or if you're at the house , you know , and you're running errands , you're doing life , right , and it's like the end of the day , all compounds , oh , absolutely , it's a lot . And lot I always say because during those times for me it's hard for me to switch off , like working and things I need to do didn't get to do , forgot to call this person back . Oh crap , that's due tomorrow . And then you're prepping dinner , you're trying to rush to his practice , right , your husband or spouse coming home , partner , or maybe you're doing it by yourself , right , and it all just like it's a lot .
Speaker 1It comes heavy Kind of avalanches on you . It really does . So when you text me that , I was just like , yeah , this is . And if you hear , I was at swim practice the other day and I heard this mom and she was like you know , we all kind of try to meet at this park , especially towards the end of the week . I swear there's something about the end of the week . Well , we're all tapped out .
Speaker 2We've been running the marathon for the week and we're just like , okay , I'm done .
Speaker 1They all say we try to survive from four to seven together , and so they created a village and they go to the playground and their kids play and they order pizza delivery . They all throw in . They bring their little kids water bottles or juice boxes , have dinner at the playground . I am here for this and I was like trying to secretly to invite myself during this conversation .
Speaker 2You're like ? Which park is this ?
Speaker 1Which park is this ?
Speaker 2Can I buy pizza next ?
Speaker 1But that whole thought was like yeah , right , and that is something I look back and , especially before we moved , had the best neighbors across from us and on down the street . Next door is a whole different thing , but across the street and down , and we would sometimes just naturally find ourselves outside at this time and we'd be like let's do this together , right ? So that's more research . Absolutely , that points to . You're right , we have a witching hour .
Speaker 2We have a witching hour , and you know what our kids do too especially . I feel like my oldest daughter , because she's in first grade now , so elementary school , so we've got the homework . That's hard , it's hard , it's hard , especially when I'm really not equipped to be the one to be helping with the homework . Well , now it's .
Speaker 1I mean the level of expectations on our children . The homework , it's bananas . They don't get their rest , they don't get their play Right If they're in after school activities . You know you got to get up , get moving in the morning , right ? I mean I say this all the time . We melt down in the Parker's household starting Thursdays on , and we maybe come back to life Saturday afternoon , sunday , just to restart it ?
Speaker 2Absolutely so , especially when you have a kid that's in elementary school . You know you pick them up which my kids do have to do after school care , because I do work in the afternoon . So pick them up , get them home , do supper , and then I do try to give them some decompression time because they've been in school and daycare all day . Like , yes , go play in the yard , or yes , go watch a Bluey episode or you know whatever , Like I want to give them that time . But we also have to do your math worksheet . Yeah , which when it's sight words it's so much easier because she can blow through those quickly . Math is a whole different ballgame . Yeah , but then you got bath time .
Speaker 1And what is it about bath time ? Sometimes it's like I find myself , I'm like I sometimes prep myself sarah , you're going to be a calm , cool , collected cucumber mom , okay . And next thing I know I am going get out of the bathtub , you know , and it's like I don't want to get to that level and again , I have to give myself grace and give myself and my kids grace . But just like it's the sensory overload .
Speaker 2It is well , at that point we're tapped out , uh and I think we're also thinking of OK , well , I got to get them in the tub , I got to bathe them , got to wash the hair . I have girls . My oldest has very thick , long , curly hair , so it takes a while to brush through that and all the things
Surviving the Momma Marathon
Speaker 2.
Speaker 1Well , then we got to brush the teeth , which is usually a battle with my youngest J to the bathtub naked as jaybirds and like have some kind of game of like can mom like tackle them to get their jammies on .
Speaker 2Yes , we play that too . And then my youngest , literally last night , had the toothbrush ready and said okay , it's time to brush your teeth . And what does she do ? Giggles and just takes off across , like through the connecting closet to my oldest room , and I'm like sis , my little one is fast too . Yes , and it bothers because I'm like this is not the type of running I do . I'm in it for the long haul , not the short sprints .
Speaker 1So this is really why you train for marathons ? I do , because I have to keep up . Okay , this is now I'm understanding .
Speaker 2Yes , I have to keep up but I can't . And we got to calm everybody down and we got to get in the bed . And when I say we have 730 bedtime , no one is in the bed by 730 . No one is asleep at 730 because that's just crazy talk . So like we're finally getting settled at like eight o'clock and reading the books and all the things , and then you have no time for yourself . I don't because usually by then I'm so spent .
Speaker 1You're done .
Speaker 2I'm done and I'm like I got to get up and do this all over again .
Speaker 1It's like Groundhog Day .
Speaker 2Oh , it is . Well then my youngest has strep again . So it's like we have to make sure that we do the morning dose and the night dose of the meds .
Speaker 1So I get up by the time we go to bed and we're already halfway spent when we wake up . That's the real of it . And then my therapist . She said you really need to work on transitions of like giving yourself that pause before like work to mom or you know , and I'm guilty of it , but I think so many people's guilty- of this is .
Speaker 1We are like transitioning from okay , I gotta leave my job or I've gotta stop what I'm doing here at the house and I've gotta get in the car , race to carpool , race to pick up , race to soccer practice , come home food , and it's like you don't get that like transition periodically and like your , head is still maybe in work or a conversation you had . And then here's your kid , right , right , and they're in the same boat , right , and you guys never get to like reset or pause .
Speaker 2Right .
Speaker 1Because it's like you got to get on to the next thing Got to go , go , go , go , go . There's no intentionality sometimes with it Right .
Speaker 2And see , and we are one of those families we try not to overdo extracurriculars . We actually didn't do any when my oldest was in kindergarten to give her the whole year to adjust to public school and all of those things .
Speaker 2So we're not even heavy heavy on the extracurriculars , but we still feel that go , go , go , go go , because it's honestly , we're always future thinking , yeah , and I think that plays into the mom's witching hour too Is we're trying to be present in the moment and get this particular task done , whether it's Jamie's or brushing teeth , or bath or supper or what have you . But we're also thinking , okay , got to remember to do the math homework , got to remember to get the medicine .
Speaker 1It's a mental load .
Speaker 2It is . We're always future thinking , even trying to be in the moment . By the end of the week , when you tack on five days of that , it's a lot , it's a lot and that's's on and I hate to say it like this an average week when you don't necessarily have anything that comes up extra like the sickness or the work deadline or death in the family or you know like a thing , an issue , relationship issue , or I mean you could turn on the news and , oh , I don't find something that would upset you in two seconds .
Speaker 1But I so things that I was thinking back to . I'm like okay , well , what else did we do to survive the witching hour ? Got comfortable and I think people don't think about this enough but , like , get out of your work clothes . Oh , yes , you know like you may be like , well , that sounds weird . No , but think about it .
Speaker 2It's a transition .
Speaker 1Anything like tight or fluffy or itchy or constricting . Yeah , it's going to add to that sensory tap out feeling , even if you've not ever put those two concepts together . Right , it is a input on your body , absolutely . And so your kids input your noise , input your what's touching , you input all the senses . Right , we're hitting the peak , right . So get comfortable . I mean we with the babies , get them in something comfortable , get yourself , seek out a minute of calm , peace , even darkness sometimes if you can , and the white noise .
Speaker 1You know you may be like what are you talking about ? But if the baby needs that , so say . You have the baby in the witching hour . You going into that space now . Granted , it's harder when you have other kids . You're like yeah , my husband's not home when I was supposed to do a band of my children living room , why hide in a cave ?
Speaker 2and you can go into the next .
Speaker 1Go in turn on a little white noise . I used to have like a clip on white noise thing that I would put on for our witching hour , walks , and sometimes that white noise hearing and like rocking that sensation can help take a break for two seconds . But the movement Right , you walking , you walking . Nothing really goes well when you just sit Right . Your mind starts going . The irritations keep coming . Right , we're made for movement Right , so that movement works .
Speaker 2You're going to laugh at me last night because today is trash day for us Uh-huh . Guess who volunteered to take the trash out to the curb last night .
Speaker 1Whitney .
Speaker 2I sure did , because you need a moment . I did need a moment . And it's movement , it's movement , it is it's movement , and you know what I had to take both of them .
Speaker 1It's heavy work . Actually it is .
Speaker 2And then on the way back , you know , after taking the last one to the caribou , I was like , okay , be intentional , take in some deep breaths while we're walking back into the house , take a minute to decompress , take a minute to look up at the stars in the sky , take a minute to just and let that out . And it was so strange that , doing a chore that you think would annoy me or kind of get under my skin , it was actually a moment for me to say , okay , you're allowed to take a little bit of extra time to walk in , you're allowed to deep breathe , you're allowed to kind of just take a moment and appreciate the sky with stars or the moon or whatever it is . Then it's like , okay , I can go back in . It's an hour before bedtime . I'm like this is doable , I am capable of this , this is doable .
Speaker 1This too shall pass .
Speaker 2Yes .
Speaker 1With babies it can take months , but with us it can take two , Because you have to , and I think knowing triggers and diet comes into play with this .
Speaker 2It does Gut . Health is big .
Speaker 1Are we all day chugging caffeine ? I'm actually doing better and you know , crashing towards that time of the day . Are you feeding your body with fuel to keep your mind and body going ? Are we doing more fast food ? Are you know those things come into play . Are you drinking water Right ? Are you really hangry or have you not drank water Right ? Are you ? Is your anxiety worse because you haven't had dehydrated ? You know things like that , I get it . We're on the move . Go , go , go . Especially littles . It's hard to take that time , but your body can't give back to you . Can't give back to you , right , if it ain't fueled , right ? So that's things to think about . But are you still going to be ? You know , I feel like my children fight more . I feel like there's always me being more like less patient snippy more snippy .
Speaker 1You know they seem to have higher preferences . You know how their string cheese is percentage or apple is cut at this time of day , which I tried it . Someone said this to me once . They said well , think about it . They've been at school all day right , and they have maybe not had choices or allowed certain opinions their autonomy is not there so when they're home in their safe space , right , it's gonna like you've been held in and it's coming out and the same is happening to us , absolutely .
Speaker 1So we're kind of knowing this is not the most ideal time situation , right , but doing little things and talking to your children about it , saying this is a tough part of the day for all of us , right , I'm tired , are you tired when I'm tired ? This is how I'm feeling , right , I'm sorry , I'm own . This Mommy was a little short in how she said that , right , you know .
Speaker 2Yeah , there was . It was actually last weekend . My youngest was like Mommy stickers , and pointed to her sister's dresser . Now , mind you , we've had several talks that crayons and stickers go to paper and not walls , the built-in toy box , furniture , things of nature . So I go over there and lo and behold , she has put stickers on said dresser and they were actually pretty decent stickers .
Speaker 1They were actually pretty sticky unfortunately for me , the sticky stickers that you discussed .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , and so I just looked at her and I said I feel really frustrated right now . Can you please go into your room and go in there and play . I need a minute minute , yeah . And so I wasn't warm , fuzzy , but I wasn't yelling . Yeah , I was able to sit down on the bed , take in some deep breath . My oldest was in the room with me . Yeah , she saw it . And I was like , okay , now I have to get these off . And then , you know , after I got a couple of them off , you know , my youngest came back and I said baby , where do stickers go On the paper ? Yes , they don't go on furniture . And you know what ? I handed her a magic eraser and she helped , and she helped . And so that's one of those ways we're allowed to express to our children I feel frustrated , I feel upset . Naming how you feel , right ? No-transcript , just take a minute .
Speaker 1Take a minute and I'm allowed to do that , and that's the thing I think , like you , I didn't learn this until I mean still learning it , but like the concept of like we're not bad moms , right for needing a minute .
Speaker 2Right .
Speaker 1And that doesn't mean we don't love our children , or that they're not loved , but like I think all our lives me until we don't need a minute has done so much more damage , and then showing our children Right , Everybody deserves a minute .
Speaker 2Right , absolutely .
Speaker 1So that's something if you're a mom and you felt like , well , you know , maybe I never saw my mom have a minute , or every time I try to say how I felt I was shut down as a child .
Speaker 2Or .
Speaker 1I still am as an adult , or I feel guilty . That's the opposite of what we're trying to tell you here Absolutely yeah . And just because there is a witching hour does not mean that there is not boundaries and consequences for actions .
Speaker 2Yeah , for you , and your child ? Oh , absolutely , just like the sticker thing , right Stickers still got to come off , yep , and so she got a magic eraser . She put some work into it . As much as a three-year-old can , yeah , but at the same time , I could walk away from that , saying you know what though I was ?
Speaker 1well , I was frustrated , I stewed uh-huh , but I didn't yell , I didn't lose my temper , so I can look back and say that's growth uh-huh , because we have all been there where we have lost our temper and we've yelled or we have had a moment I mean baby james going through his car seat , thing I remember literally one day , I think , I texted or called you after and I was like really , upset of how I responded and I walked .
Speaker 1I had to like put they were safe . I had to walk down the driveway for a minute and I was like get it together , sarah yeah and I felt horrible , but it was just like one of those moments and I and I had to grow yeah so if you're hearing this and you're like I'm not there yet , you're gonna get there . It happens to all of us .
Speaker 2So if you're hearing this and you're like I'm not there yet , You're going to get there . It happens to all of us . It happens to us all .
Speaker 1And so we're a safe space . So , just Right , you're not alone .
Speaker 2You're not alone . Moms have a witching hour too . Yep , You're allowed to say that . You're allowed to tell your children you feel frustrated and that you need find your minute in taking the trash to the curb .
Speaker 1Hey we all got to find it .
Speaker 2If you're washing dishes , maybe turn it on to cold really quick and put your wrist under that cold rushing water . It'll be a spa experience in two minutes , Right , and so you know , do the deep breathing in those moments . It's trying to find the calming in the day to day or the mundane or monotonous that helps us when we are kind of in that fight or flight , like I'm at my capacity . I have to rein this back in .
Speaker 1Yep have that water available to make sure you've actually ate and tell your husband like , or tell your partner or someone else or you know if it's having like your babysitter come over Right , I mean , there's mom helpers but if you're just like , fridays are really tough , or like you want to have that time . Have an extra set of hands .
Speaker 2Absolutely , you know .
Speaker 1I'm a big fan of like this generation below us . They need to see the reality of motherhood too , and they need to jump on in and we need to have help . So I think , knowing it just like anything , name it to Tana Absolutely , and y'all have got this .
Speaker 2And you're not alone .
Speaker 1Me and Whitney are in the witching hours with you .
Speaker 2Oh yes .
Speaker 1We're there , All right , guys , Till next week , See you . We'll see you then .
Maternal Mental Health Podcast
Speaker 1Maternal mental health is as important as physical health . The Preview Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables , like anxiety , anger and even apathy . Hosted by CEO founder Sarah Parkhurst and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay , each episode focuses on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum . Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges , as well as access , tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms . You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time . Please know you're not alone on this journey . We're here to help .