Speaker 1: 0:10

Hey guys, welcome to Privy Alliance Podcast. This is Sarah and I'm back with Whitney and before we dive in, I'm going to give you guys a trigger warning. Today's topic is about maternal suicide and suicide awareness. This is actually World Suicide Prevention Day, Awareness Month and Week. September 10th is the exact date, but it's a really important conversation to have. So if you have little ears listening probably not the best time or if this is triggering to you and find yourself feeling in the situation. Whitney will help guide us through that in the later part. But welcome, Whitney, and let's talk about it. Hi friends, Okay.

Speaker 1: 0:49

So Whitney, as a therapist, as someone who has had these hard conversations of asking someone and broaching the topic of if they are thinking about harming themselves or if someone has a history of harming themselves, let's just jump right in. How do you get or tell people or advise Because I mean, you see teenagers, you see families of someone who may be expressing self-harm thoughts or have had a history. How do we get comfortable with this conversation? How do we ask someone are they having these thoughts? And, more importantly, what do we do with this conversation? How do we ask someone Are they having these thoughts? And, more importantly, what do we do with that conversation if they are honest and say yes?

Speaker 2: 1:30

So really good questions. And of course it's multifaceted because we're people and everything is multifaceted. But there was a time where one of my really close friends she was actually going through a divorce and then through that, you know, had expressed feelings of hopelessness, feelings of uselessness, feelings like she just wanted it to all be over, things of that nature. And this was through text message, because we live about 20 minutes apart, and so I just told her one day. I said OK, I'm going to put my therapist hat on, but know that I love you. I'm not trying to upset you, that's not my goal with all of this but do you have thoughts of hurting yourself? Are you? And I I very point blank asked her are you having thoughts of suicide? And I was very honest with her, very straightforward. When we're talking about suicide, unfortunately, you do need to be very straightforward. Okay, we, we don't need to beat around the bush, we don't really need to try and allude to something different, like we do want to be very cut and dry. We need to ask are you having thoughts of harming yourself? Are you having suicidal thoughts? Do you have a way of making that happen? Thankfully, that friend and I are pretty close and she appreciated what I had asked and she reassured me that she did not have thoughts of harming herself. She just wished that the divorce and all the things that come with divorce was over. She just wished that she could just like go to sleep, wake up and it was over, kind of thing. Not that she would go to sleep and never wake back up. So from there I had clarification. I knew where she was at.

Speaker 2: 3:04

So in the therapy realm, if I have a client coming in and they express hopelessness is a big thing. If you ever hear someone saying I just don't feel like there is any more future, I just feel so hopeless, there's nothing for me to look forward to, there's nothing for me to bank on getting better. When we start to see hopelessness, uselessness and worthlessness those are three key factors or words that can indicate suicidal ideation or suicidal thoughts. So when I am in session with someone and I start to hear these things, or they even say you know, sometimes I wish I could just like go to sleep or I wish I just wasn't here anymore that's a pretty common one for people to say. That's when I say you know, sometimes I wish I could just like go to sleep or I wish I just wasn't here anymore. That's a pretty common one for people to say. That's when I say, ok, do you have a way of doing that? And if they say, no, I just life is just really hard right now. So then I clarify and I say do you really wish life just wasn't this hard, or do you want to be dead? So again, it's very heavy questions. I'm not going to sugarcoat that, but we are asking very direct questions. We're saying do you want to be dead or do you want life to be easier?

Speaker 2: 4:13

99% of the time, people want life to be easier. They want out of whatever that situation may be. Maybe it is divorce, maybe it's a breakup, maybe they've lost their job, maybe they've lost a baby, maybe there's been a death in the family, maybe life is just hard and they are taking on a ton of things that feels unavoidable to take on and they just need a break. So when I am told I really just wish life was a little bit easier, that's when I say, okay, you don't want to die, you don't actually want to die, you want to break. And when I tell you I've seen so many people look at me just relieved Because, one, they got validated. Two, they realize oh wait, I don't actually want to die Now, for that small percentage that actually does feel like death would actually be beneficial.

Speaker 2: 5:02

To die Now for that small percentage that actually does feel like death would actually be beneficial to others because that happens pretty often when suicidal thoughts are taking place is that others would be better off with them. That's when we start to use our grounding techniques of well, would your family be better without you? How would they be better without you? And oftentimes, when we really start to dig on that, it's hard to actually come up with something that's truthful, because depression and anxiety do a very good job of lying to us and they make us feel like people would be better off without us because we inconvenienced somebody one time. That doesn't mean they're better off without us as a whole. It means that life happened and you might have texted them at a time that was just not a great time. That's life. Like you and I, sarah, like we don't know what's going on in the moment that we text each other. Right, it could be an OK time, or it could be that we have a dumpster fire in our house. It's a coin toss, you know, and so you know being able to ground people and say, ok, because it doesn't actually seem like your family is going to be better off without you. Why don't we just take a step back from that?

Speaker 2: 6:11

Now, if someone is still very committed to that line of thinking, my job as a therapist at that time is to say do you have a way of this happening?

Speaker 2: 6:24

No-transcript and trigger warning. I know we did one in the beginning of the episode, but this is going to get a little more graphic. So when I say means, I mean like a weapon. Do we have a gun, do we have a knife, do we have a rope, do we have a way of making this occur, kind of thing. And so because of that, if someone comes back to me and they'd say, yeah, I do, and I really think that it's going to happen on Thursday, that's the day that my spouse has to go to work, my kids are going to be at school, that way I just don't have to worry about it. And if at that point which very often I can't, if I cannot talk someone out of that plan, then it is my responsibility as a mandatory reporter to-1 or to call that person's emergency contact and have them, take them to an emergency room, because as much as I love therapy and as much as I'm an advocate for it, there's not enough therapy in that moment to get someone away from those suicidal thoughts and plans.

Speaker 1: 7:23

That's important Now as someone's listening, they're saying I am feeling suicidal, and that's important. Now, as someone's listening, they're saying I am feeling suicidal. You know, the suicide hotline is a free hotline. We'll link it in the show notes 9-1-1, go into your emergency room and then you know something I was always taught, especially in nursing school, is asking just point blank, like Whitney did, does not make it worse. So because I think there used to be this narrative of like what's it? They're not thinking about it, and if I ask about it, then they'll think about it, I gave them the idea.

Speaker 1: 7:53

You will not give them the idea, and I remember my own self when I was deep, deep, deep in postpartum depression and maternal suicide and overdose is the leading complication of death in the first year in postpartum. Ok, it is more common than postpartum hemorrhage and more common than hypertension disorder. So this conversation is so important for moms during pregnancy because because suicidal ideations wanting to, you know, end your life in pregnancy can also happen too, and we, and that is very real and then in postpartum, and we actually I was looking at the statistics of this. I always love to see this of like when it occurs, because people sometimes think, well, maybe when does this? When should I be checking on my friends? Okay, the answer is you should always be checking on your pregnant postpartum friends and we're postpartum until I mean four or five years honestly after. So constantly, but statistically says most frequently between six and 12 months, okay, and so it can again happen anytime. There's a small majority that happens in the first 43 days and that at times is usually associated with postpartum psychosis which go back. We have a whole episode on that.

Speaker 1: 9:07

But depression, while we talk about depression so much, especially during pregnancy, greatly increases the thoughts about suicide during pregnancy and postpartum, so we're biodirectional. So when we are saying what is postpartum depression, what does depression look like during pregnancy, we want you guys to become familiar and aware, because we don't want this to lead to overdose or suicide and another mom be lost. It can happen, very real, and I think it too goes back to. People are not talking about this, we're not checking in. We know our system is failing moms. There is up to, they say, 70% of maternal mental health disorders anxiety, ocd, ptsd, trauma, depression goes undiagnosed and what's even worse, whitney, is 75% of those who are diagnosed go untreated. I believe that. So we are seeing where women are suffering. I always say this either we talk about it or not, it's not going to change the fact that women are choosing to end their lives because depression has taken over, psychosis has taken over and that, like Whitney said, I remember back when I was experiencing deep depression, feeling suicidal, exactly what you described.

Speaker 1: 10:27

I could see my life never changing. I lost hope. I thought everyone would be around me better, including my child and my husband. I was a burden. I didn't have use. I couldn't see past it and I've heard this from a lot of women is that you don't know how bad you are. Until almost a couple of years ago that was such a deep, dark place and I can't believe that I thought it would never get better. But you don't think it's going to get better.

Speaker 2: 10:57

But you know, the themes with that are hopelessness and worthlessness. Yeah those are the themes that I'm picking up on. So those are really the again the key words, the key factors that I want people to be aware of is, if people feel like they aren't useful to others, or that they're a big imposition or inconvenience, or that life is just never going to get better, there's no hope of a better future, that it's going to be like this forever. So what's the point?

Speaker 1: 11:26

Exactly.

Speaker 2: 11:27

So what's the point to be aware of, too, if someone says well, what's the point? Is the question to be aware of too, if someone says what's the point in seeking out help? Boom right there. Hopelessness. That is a huge red flag and they need help and intervention. Stat.

Speaker 1: 11:41

So if I texted you and let's go back, I mean if I would have had a Whitney, if Whitney so Whitney and I back story, whitney didn't know me in this time I'm talking about If I would have had a Whitney and in any sense of a professional Whitney, a therapist, that I could be working through this, I would have been screamed If I could have been educated. What we're so trying to tell the listeners of it's real. It's very common in the sense that one in three they're saying post COVID will experience depression or anxiety. So you know, I could have said Whitney, I'm going down a path where I'm feeling X, y and Z. So if you are pregnant or postpartum, to know the signs and symptoms, go back to our what Is series. It's a great place to start.

Speaker 1: 12:30

If you are hearing yourself going yeah, I don't see any point to this, what is it worth? I can't see it getting better. You're starting to lose enjoyment of things that normally would make you and we're not talking about you know. Well, I haven't slept, sarah, in five days, and you know I'm covered in milk and you know what's if you weren't, would you? Would you still enjoy that or not? Right, like it's situational, and know that you've got to find these safe people and you don't even have to be pregnant or postpartum, you know. Have these safe people to have these hard conversations, like Whitney did with her friend. Check in, be that person. I love you. I'm going to ask you some hard questions because I do love you and I care for you. You matter.

Speaker 1: 13:10

Suicide is preventable. It is, it is preventable. And you know, I was also reading too. 70% of US counties lack sufficient maternal mental health resources. 70%, that's almost three-fourths of us, do not have maternal mental health resources. 70% that's almost three-fourths of us, do not have maternal mental health resources. And also that what I found very interesting is women living in poverty, which, hello, our economy is getting more and more these days. They have double the rate depression than those who do not.

Speaker 1: 13:44

But again depression suicide does not care who you are, how much money you have, where you went to school, what you look like. Anybody and everybody should have this conversation. And it did show too, gen Z is more than twice as likely than boomers to suffer from mental health disorders. That's interesting, yes, and you know, paula, what it is from now you know we're dealing. You know we have so much. You know we dealt with COVID, now we're dealing with. You know AI is really weird and fake in the sense that it creates illusions of reality. That's not there. We have social media. We have the lack of child care and family support, the village is not what it once was, when our neighbors were our age Exactly.

Speaker 1: 14:28

We don't have that village or the child care which, on that note, I want to say that research also says stress caused by lack of child care has been identified as one of the strongest predictors of maternal depression. And they also show 50 percent of Americans live in a child care desert.

Speaker 2: 14:47

That feels accurate. It really does.

Speaker 1: 14:50

That feels real. So if you look at it, you know mental health, at the end of the day, has to be a conversation. Mental health is health. We have to ask hard questions. We have to be aware that moms are losing their lives to maternal mental health disorders daily, right? So you need to think of this. How many times you go to the OB and you're going to pee in a cup? You're going to get your blood pressure checked? You need to have. If your OB is not doing it, you need to set it up. So you're checking in on your mental health. You're educating yourself. There is free screening tools on the internet for the Edinburgh postpartum about anxiety. You can listen to our podcast and share. But we really hope during suicide awareness week and month, that it becomes a conversation, that you find you are someone's support and that you recognize your support.

Speaker 2: 15:40

Absolutely, and that there's no shame in asking for help. Your OB or midwife, your health care provider is there to help you. A therapist is there to help you. You know your spouse, your significant other, your family is there for you. But unfortunately, especially women, we tend to mask, we tend to hide things. So please don't mask this in hopes that it will eventually just kind of go away. It's not a scratch on your arm. It's not that easy enough to heal with. You need those supports and you're allowed to ask for help and give yourself that permission.

Speaker 1: 16:19

And it will get better. As someone who has experienced that and felt that hopelessness, it gets better. It doesn't have to end that way. There is light at the tunnel and there's so many. I have found so much healing and freedom in my own journey of sharing how I felt to hear other women say me too, and you can pull someone out. And so, if you're struggling, know that you will get better and you will have an opportunity to help someone else get better, because we can take away the shame and the stigma. This does not define you. This is not a failure.

Speaker 1: 16:51

If you're feeling this way, it is can be a chemical imbalance. This is a something as like a broken bone. You know we can identify it, we can repair it and we can heal it and you can continue on. It is treatable and it is. You do not have to live this way or feel this way. So, as always, we love you, guys. We want to educate you, we want to support you. If you are having thoughts of harming yourself, please call 911, the National Suicide Hotline number, or go to your nearest ER. This is not something that we want you to take lightly. Or if you know someone who is, please take those steps. But, guys, thank you for listening to this hard conversation and we'll be back to talk to you guys next week. Sounds good to me, guys.

Speaker 3: 17:35

Maternal mental health is as important as physical health. The Preview Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables, like anxiety, anger and even apathy. Hosted by CEO founder Sarah Parkhurst and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay, each episode focuses on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum. Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges, as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms. You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time. Please know you're not alone on this journey. We're here to help.