Speaker 1: 0:10

Hey guys, welcome back to Preview Alliance podcast. I'm so excited about today's conversation that we are going to. We're big fans and you guys have probably seen her posts on Instagram because a couple of them got around the I feel like the same motherhood you know, kind of algorithms here. But I have Esther here of Golden Tears Therapy and we are going to talk about actually one of those posts postpartum emotions we don't talk about. So, esther, welcome. I'm so glad we finally got to connect.

Speaker 2: 0:39

Thank you so much for having me. I'm also excited to be here.

Speaker 1: 0:42

You know, I resonated so much with a lot of what you are thankfully putting out on the internet, as someone who is in the maternal mental space of just kind of saying the things that you know it's, if I find it motherhood and postpartum pregnancy it's sometimes we just want to hear the positive and then, like when you see someone like mention yeah, I feel like that too, or I'm struggling with that too it really resonates of honesty and vulnerability. So before we dive in, can you tell our listeners about you, what brought you to this space and kind of why this is your passion?

Speaker 2: 1:18

Yes, my name is Esther Kalman and I'm a perinatal psychotherapist in San Diego, california. My private practice is completely online, so I work from home, and the reason why I'm working in this field probably it's very similar to many other clinicians who have also experienced some sort of perinatal mental health challenges, so my story is also very personal. When my son was born 12 years ago, I've gone through besides from being a brand new immigrant to the US and just going through the culture shock, being in a brand new relationship, marriage, just getting used to and adjusted to this new world that is so different from where I was born and raised in Hungary. So that, and on top of that, having a baby and being completely here by myself, I didn't have any I still don't have any family here. It was. It was just like like if someone would have thrown me into this deep cold water and it was really challenging, and I guess part of the healing process is always, as we say, the meaning making you know, finding your purpose in your sufferings.

Speaker 2: 2:40

In very specific terms, we call this also post-traumatic growth, right, but basically that's how I decided to go back to school, get my master's degree, and I got involved very early on when I was still in school with Postpartum Support International. I've been since then. They're volunteers. I started out with the helpline. They have a great helpline text line where they provide free resources and support for moms or their families, and now I'm helping them more with the social media content creation. And I'm also a mom of two. I have, like I mentioned, a 12-year-old, a four-year-old, and I'm helping other moms to make them feel less alone, because what I remember from my experience that I honestly thought I was the only person who struggled, and that could not be further from the truth. So that's why I'm doing what I'm doing and I love my job. So that's why I'm doing what I'm doing and I love my job.

Speaker 1: 3:44

Thank you so much for sharing that. And you know, I can't imagine everything being so new and then you being I mean, not having any familiarities, not having your support, and then not knowing really what you were experiencing was not a you thing. Right, it wasn't like you were failing, you weren't the only one, but it does. I resonate with that. I mean I have I'm a nurse in my background. You know, I thought I would have known, you know what postpartum depression was. I thought I would have known what anxiety and PTSD was and I knew. I truly did not know.

Speaker 1: 4:17

And I find it very interesting. There's so many mental health professionals and OBs and pediatricians that they'll say you know, I talk to patients about this and I experienced this. So I always say it takes no prisoners in the sense of anybody, in any situation. But what I would be interested to know was there things that you did, you know, with your four-year-old during pregnancy and postpartum? That was different, that you're like I don't want to go back that way or I was more aware. What was a little different there?

Speaker 2: 4:50

So very good question. I went to therapy, like when I found that I was pregnant. I said, okay, I'm going to prepare for this differently, because even when you think you are prepared for your first one, it's still a shock. It's good to be prepared, but nobody knows it until you actually go through it. So since I had that experience with my first one and I knew exactly what is that I want, what is that I do not want to do, who I want there to be to help, who I want there to be helping me, who I do not want there, like everything, it's just so important, I think, to find a mental health professional who can help you figure these things out, help you prepare for postpartum differently, because, like you mentioned earlier, like you as a nurse, you knew of postpartum depression or postpartum anxiety.

Speaker 2: 5:46

But the truth is that often when you are experiencing it, you don't know that that's what it is. You just think that's motherhood, that's normal, that's just how my life is going to be. Or sometimes you even question your own personality, like is this sad, anxious, irritable person is actually who I am, because it feels like that it's who you are, when that's not who you are. Those are the symptoms. Those are different experiences. So I see many moms who are pregnant with their second babies for the same exact reason, because they want to prepare differently, and that's what I did with my second one. So I went to therapy, even though I was already a therapist. But it's different when you're obviously the patient or the professional, and I just made it very clear to myself, to my partner, that this is what I need and this is what I do not need. Also, understanding myself better, right, like? What does that look like for me when I am depressed or I'm feeling down or it's too much?

Speaker 2: 6:50

So, knowing yourself because what maybe postpartum anxiety looks like for me might be different for you and knowing your triggers, knowing what helps you feel calm, what, what, who to reach out to, who can I trust? Right, who can I talk to? Because often maybe you have a husband, you have a wife, your partner. They are helpful, but maybe they are not the right people to talk to, right? Sometimes it's not your partner who you want to share your deepest fears with, and that's OK, because I feel like there's also pressure, right, like? Oh, my partner has to be my best friend, my partner has to be my everything. So if I am not able to share certain things with my partner, then there's something wrong with me again.

Speaker 2: 7:34

But no, you just find a trusted person or informing your OBGYN. That's another thing, like when you're, and when I was pregnant for the second time, I straight up told my OB that look, this is what I experienced, you know, can we look out for that? You know they would screen me more often for depression and anxiety. Also, I gave birth in a hospital, so in the hospital I let them know and, as I'm saying it, I'm thinking it can be difficult for moms to do that because there's so much shame around it. So, especially when you're going through that for the first time and I think that's why a support of a mental health professional or a trusted friend can be helpful just to kind of break down that shame that it's okay to say these things because so many moms have to go through that- and you know, I know I think it's hard on both levels, right, because sometimes you don't know what you don't know when you're first going into it, right, and then you experience it and often it's rock bottom.

Speaker 1: 8:35

But we do see this too. A lot of our pre-vm moms are second or third time moms and through education, through trust, through screening, they'll go wow, that is what I actually had with my first or my second right. I just thought I was failing. I just thought, you know, motherhood was easier for everybody else. I just thought all this and then it's almost like a grief that they have to grieve through right Of like. That was my experience and I didn't know it, my family didn't know it, my support, like I didn't have support and I always tell people it's, it's the system is set up not for moms to succeed when it comes to our mental health.

Speaker 2: 9:15

Absolutely and and exactly as you said it, like there's so much grief and loss there, even when you are pregnant for the second time and you really realize like, okay, this is what I experienced and we need to grieve that loss, because there's something about postpartum mental health challenges that I think I always say. They are so sneaky. So, even when you think that 12 years let's say, in my case, 12 years pass, right, I still feel the guilt time to time, like even right now, I can just feel a little bit that, oh, this is what I had to go through, let's say, in the first year of my son's life, and then I wish I could go back. I wish I because I didn't get help until, like, my son was more than a year old, and you know, it's another thing that maybe we can touch up on.

Speaker 2: 10:04

But yeah, you have that guilt. You wish that you could do things differently, you could win that time back, and now, maybe, when you're having your second baby, you know better what you would do differently, and that's the time that you can get back. And then there's this immense amount of guilt, right, the loss, and then, even though you know it's not your fault, but just because you know it. It doesn't mean you feel it that way, right, yeah? So, yeah, you need to grieve that loss. I think it's during your second pregnancy or once your second baby is born and, as painful as it is, it can be very healing for the second time that, okay, I'm grieving that loss and I'm also helping those wounds to heal through my second baby.

Speaker 1: 10:49

Yeah, I mean, I will be honest. There is points back. I look back and my fog was really bad memory of like, and which depression I feel like, stole a lot of memories from me and I hit really rock bottom is between like four and six months postpartum. You know if, when I needed help and you know I can't recall certain things. Sometimes people will say, well, do you remember how he was at this? And I'm like you know, and I do remember how sad I was. I do remember how it felt like I couldn't go on, and but the details of, well, when did he roll over? How did you roll over? How did you roll over? Or you know, or the solids or this, and I'm kind of like I such a it feels stolen from me.

Speaker 1: 11:31

You know, and I did, with my second, really almost have a fear again, even though I had steps in place, of what's if this happens again, right, and then statistics tells us you do have a chance of it, right, you have a 50% more chance. But it did almost put some pressure on me too, of I wanted to right the wrong, like I wanted this to be such a special experience because it wasn't, and then I felt guilt again of like. Well, I was depressed with my first, but now here's my second. I'm not so. It was all this mix, and I'm sure you hear this with your clients and maybe even felt this way yourself absolutely what you just said earlier, that you can't recall certain things from the first year.

Speaker 2: 12:14

My goodness, it's the same for me and that brings up another layer of guilt. It's almost like that you're watching a movie, right, like you remember certain pieces but you're not fully in it. You're almost like you're like an observer of what was really happening at the time, and then exactly what you said. And then now you feel for the second time like so much pressure, like I want to do it good this time. It has to be, I have to remember. I remember for the second time. I would even I would even write down when my daughter, I don't know started to walk or crawl, like the date. So I would have that right.

Speaker 2: 12:50

Yeah, there's a lot of pressure and lots of mixed emotions because maybe, as you're experiencing differently, maybe in a more pleasant way, motherhood for the second time in the back of your mind it's still there like oh, what happened to me for the first time? And you're right, the memory is just foggy. When you're going through depression, that absolutely inhibits your ability to be able to focus, be in the present, to concentrate, to remember. So that's why many moms say that as well, that they just can't recall.

Speaker 1: 13:21

And they said they don't talk about. What do you think led you to saying I need help at that one year part? Why do you think you able, you know, waited so long and be? What was kind of that? So if listeners are going, okay, you know what? What brought you to that? Because oftentimes we hear stories of you know we've overcome and now we're doing this our lives because we've lived this right. It's almost like a testimony. We've lived this right. It's almost like a testimony. But I think a lot of listeners don't sometimes hear that break point right, that kind of the ugly point that we all hit or where we it's moment. Or it's a someone else or it's a. I just can't go on from here like this.

Speaker 2: 13:57

I waited more than a year and the reason is probably what most moms would say that I, first of all, I didn't even really know that was something that I could get help for, because I thought that was just me, that's just who I am, and lots of shame and guilt, honestly, almost from the get go. I still remember this picture so vividly in my mind that my son was about a week or two weeks old and I was holding him. I was sitting on my bed and I was holding him and I was looking at him and I asked him that who are you? Because that's another piece that we don't talk about. You know, there's so much pressure about you have to bond immediately or this magical thing will just happen. And then you're going to feel this immense love for your baby and I knew I loved my baby but I didn't really feel it and those are again very two different things. So I remember that picture again, like I said, very vividly.

Speaker 2: 14:56

And from that time and on I just felt that I was doing almost like a to-do list, right, like I just check, check, check, change the diaper, fed the baby, did the laundry, took him for a walk, but I was not really enjoying it. And what happened is that there was a nurse at the time who would visit me every couple of months. Actually, she started these visits when I was still pregnant. It was some sort of program that I was part of and it was really helpful because mainly because, like we talked about a trusted person I started to develop a very good rapport with her. She was really nice and I'm still, you know, forever grateful for her, to be honest, because if it wasn't for her, I would have never got help. So, basically, she had to screen me for postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety and, like most moms would do, I would lie, because moms are great at lying. We're great at lying to our kids.

Speaker 2: 15:56

We are great at lying to ourselves. We're just good at that. That's our skill. So it's a self-administered test, the Edinburgh scale. And I just always check oh yes, I'm fine, I'm fine, even though I wasn't feeling it, but there was no way that I would tell anyone. And then I remember seeing other moms at the playground or, you know, on social media or anywhere on the street, and they looked always happy or at least didn't seem as miserable as I felt inside.

Speaker 2: 16:27

And I remember feeling angry. I was actually jealous. And sometimes when someone said, oh, this is our, I'm pregnant with my second baby, I would feel so angry and jealous at the same time. Because I would be angry that why would you do that? It's horrible to have a child, it ruins your life and also jealous because I wish I could feel the way you do, you know. So, basically, this nurse would come every couple of months to check on me.

Speaker 2: 16:53

I would keep lying and lying and lying and eventually, when the emotional pain was, when the emotional pain was, it just became so, so unbearable, like when I couldn't even lie to myself anymore. And that was around that one year mark. That's when I just sent her a text message one evening, something like that, I'm not feeling well or I think I need some support. And that's when she sent me the postpartum support international phone number. I reached out and they connected me to a therapist and right away I remember the first time when I went to see the therapist.

Speaker 2: 17:34

After the first session I felt so much better, simply because there was this space with this really nice lady who listened to me and she didn't judge me, she didn't think I was crazy. It almost seemed like, oh, she gets me, she just knows what I mean. And that helped me a lot. So I would go every single week and this is when I just started to feel better. Not that my environment changed completely right, because certain things you can't control in your environment but the fact that you have someone who's there for you, who helps, who not only maybe teaches you coping skills but just validates how you feel, just makes you feel less alone. That can be really life changing.

Speaker 1: 18:21

I remember that, my first therapy session too and I think when people you maybe say that to has never experienced this or they feel a certain way about therapy, they're like what do you mean? Just one session, and it doesn't always happen for everybody, and I preference that. But I had been bottled up so much that I felt the same way, what you said. I just was like it came over me and I was like I'm going to be okay. It's not. I wasn't immediately okay, but I had that hope that I think I had lost. And again it just I think that's the scariest part is really like that text you sent right. Then that call the post part, like that is that step that we try to tell people that you know at some level that you need help and support. It may take a while, but there comes a point that it's inside of you saying just reach out. And so I love how it's like a full circle that you call that number. Now you are with them. I think that's such a beautiful story.

Speaker 2: 19:19

Yeah, I'm honestly, I'm forever grateful for those two people the therapist and that nurse because you need, everyone needs people like that in their lives. You know, and again, like I mentioned, it's not always your best friend, it's not always your mom, dad, grandparents. Sometimes it's a stranger that you know you never met. And exactly the hope, that's what matters. I mean, in life we all need that, right, like hope. If we didn't have hope then we wouldn't even wake up in the morning, right, because then what for?

Speaker 1: 19:53

Yeah, let's talk because I love this conversation of just really the experience of it In your post about you know the realities of postpartum, that we we don't talk about the emotions and you know the guilt of not feeling happy enough, I think, as moms. I think that even outside, I think it starts in pregnancy, honestly, right, like cause when you're throwing up you're miserable, you're fatigued, right, or you're start, you know, depression, anxiety starts in pregnancy, right, like you you're not feeling happy, right, or you're like you're feeling resentment that creeps in, right, and you don't. People, especially where I'm at in the South, it's very much. You know you should be blessed that you're carrying a child, right, so it's very you don't feel validated and you just kind of shove that in and it feels really tough.

Speaker 2: 20:49

Yeah, the not feeling happy enough. That's an overarching theme of motherhood during pregnancy, postpartum, but even after, when you have older kids. Right, because nobody can feel happy all the time, with or without kids. We live in a society where we believe that happiness is the default feeling that we need to have, but that's not the case because, especially in this challenging period of postpartum, right, there's no way that you would always feel happy. And then, because of the pressure of society, the fact that everyone posts blissful pictures on social media, you think and you feel that there's something wrong with you.

Speaker 2: 21:36

And if I'm not feeling happy all the time about motherhood, then it means that I'm a bad mom. When, again, happiness wouldn't exist without sadness, right, I mean, otherwise we wouldn't even put, we couldn't even put it into context. I mean it has to be in a context. And then what I think most moms, or all moms, need to remember and I have to remind myself of that as well, even today, very often that just because today is a bad day or today I'm not enjoying motherhood, that doesn't mean that, generally speaking, I don't love my kids or I don't love to be a mom. It's part of being a mom that some days you're going to wish you could be alone, and that's okay, that's totally okay. Yeah, now I think that's okay, that's totally okay.

Speaker 1: 22:22

Yeah, no, I think that's a very true statement. You know, it's like when your baby's up for the fourth time at night and you're exhausted and you just, you know it's hard to feel happy in that moment, right, or as your kids get older and you have different kinds of challenges and you're having to navigate that there's no rule book, there's no handbook. You know, and yeah, it's this, at some point it's like we've equivalated. You know, happiness equals being a mom and there's no other title that I'm aware of that that's forced upon like it is for moms.

Speaker 2: 22:53

That's very true. Yes, it's just forced upon moms and let's help society understand that a mom can be upset, angry, irritable, and still be happy for the fact that she's a mom. Yeah, it's not mutually exclusive.

Speaker 1: 23:11

No, I love that, the pressure to snap back physically. I think no matter who you are at some point it's going to be an aunt, it's going to be a co-worker, it's going to be someone who says, oh, are you pregnant? And you are not pregnant. You know to you, there's moments that you will feel it and it's hard to see. Like you said, social media is in your face and, let's be honest too, there is some companies out there that target and market and go after this very vulnerable pain point of fast fix, snap back, pay this money, and it's very vicious. I really get really upset thinking about how they pry on and prey on, just like the moms are vulnerability. But what's your thoughts when it comes to hearing clients tell you you know, I just want it's very understandable to want our body back right, because you've grown this baby, you fed this baby, your body. You want it back, but you have to wrap your head around it sometimes will never go back that way, a hundred percent.

Speaker 2: 24:14

Yeah, sometimes it doesn't, and that's okay too. So first of all I would say, like, remind them, like your body just you know grown a baby, you birthed the baby. So let's just be grateful first, or try to be grateful, that our body was able to do that for us and for our family, you know, for the baby. And then understanding that your body deserves time. If your body grows a baby for nine months, then it also needs some time to heal, right, not to bounce back. I never say to bounce back because, like you said, sometimes it never goes back and actually that is okay too. I mean that's normal, Because if you imagine right, and then I really like to break it down, like look how big your belly got, right, like I mean your organs reorganize themselves inside in order to make space for your baby. If you had C-section or vaginal birth, I mean that's a lot to go through, both of them, right? And here I just also want to add that C-section is a real birth. So, because that's another thing that we tend to think that oh, if it was a C-section, then you didn't really give birth, but of course you did. So just these gentle reminders that your body deserves time.

Speaker 2: 25:31

From research we know that on average it takes about 18 months year and a half, right To somewhat get your pre-pregnancy body back Again. We don't know if it's going to be the same, but if you just think about the timeline 18 months that's for a reason, right. I mean your body needs that time to heal. And another thing is that healing, whether if it's physical or emotional, it's not a competition, it's not on a timer, right. Emotional it's not a competition, it's not on a timer, right. There's nobody gets a reward in motherhood, right, like you're back first or you healed first. There's no such thing. It's not a race. So, whatever your body needs in that moment, that's what you need to focus on and just give yourself some grace because your body is beautiful, that was able to grow a baby and birth a baby.

Speaker 2: 26:26

And it's hard. It's hard, you're right, when there's companies target that, there's fitness coaches like postpartum fitness, how to win or bounce back the fastest way. I mean, of course, be healthy, but I mean you would want to be healthy whether you are pregnant or not, or had a baby or not, yeah, and not to talk about sometimes, you know, sadly, when there's loss, right, like when you lose your baby and then your body doesn't know, and then you have to go through that process, like your milk comes in or your body creates certain. You know symptoms or you feel, physically feel certain things that your body has to go through after giving birth, except that unfortunately, then you don't have your baby. So it's so important to be patient with yourself in every sense and you know what. If someone says otherwise, you are welcome to say no to them in whatever form you want to. You know that brings in the boundary question, but just remember, it's not a race, it's not a race at all.

Speaker 1: 27:34

I love that it's not a race. And this one I struggled with. Our next one is who's part of rage? Oh yeah, struggled with. Our next one is who's part of rage oh yeah, I think I really believe I'm talking to a lot of moms is that is so common, it's so taboo, it makes people extremely uncomfortable, it makes the mom uncomfortable and it's off. Sometimes the first time in their life they felt rage like this and it's the most, I would say the most, conflicting situation they're feeling rage over. Right, it's like you know, little things induced by babies or the kids or the situation that, again, society's painting. It's easy, it's perfect. You're supposed to naturally know this, like you're supposed to not get irritated by this. And then it scared me. It was intense for me, very shameful and it felt like a dirty secret. I could not say Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 28:26

The shame is probably one of the biggest steps around postpartum rage or rage in general. But we're talking about postpartum. Well, first of all, it's not the reflection of who you are as a mom. That's the number one thing that I would like all moms know. And another thing is that I would always say to my clients and to myself as well, because I have experienced postpartum rage too that it's a messenger.

Speaker 2: 28:54

Like anger, rage. It is a messenger. It's trying to tell you something, right, because, like you said, yes, it feels like that. It's not who you are, like this extremely intense emotion. It's not just like I'm a little bit frustrated or irritable, no, it's like this, almost like you're completely losing your mind, losing control. You scream, you maybe throw or break things. So it can be that intense. It can look different for everybody, but it's really really intense.

Speaker 2: 29:25

And once it's over, then you feel really shameful, you feel really apologetic and often people around you adults, maybe they don't understand it they feel really angry or upset for your behavior, which then can add another layer of shame and guilt. So, understanding that rage is trying to tell you something. It probably means that you're walking on really thin ice, your needs are not met, maybe you haven't slept well for a while, maybe you haven't had a chance to have some quiet time for a while, maybe you haven't had food or taken a shower, or maybe you haven't spent time with some of your good friends. So just, it's important to pause in those moments or after sometimes like, okay, what is that I really need? What are my needs? Do I need help at home? Do I just want my mother-in-law to leave? Right, I mean, it can be anything. It can be really anything, and it's hard to be honest sometimes with ourselves.

Speaker 2: 30:32

But that is the number one step when we try to kind of peel it right Like an onion and looking at anger again and rage as a messenger and see what I really need and then attend to it, like, give yourself what you need. So that way. Because when you actually take care of yourself, right, so maybe you need to see a therapist, maybe you need to join a support group, and it's important to learn coping skills as well. So I would still encourage everybody to learn how to manage those very intense feelings right, because that's also important so nobody gets hurt, whether if it's physically or emotionally or mentally.

Speaker 2: 31:14

But while we're learning those coping skills. It's also important, at the same time, to attend to those needs that are unmet. And when we do those things and it's important for all moms to understand, like you're not you're actually doing the best that you can, not just for yourself, but for your family, because then they are going to get a mom who is more relaxed, more regulated emotionally and just more present for them. That's great. Can I just add one more thing?

Speaker 1: 31:46

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:47

And when we're talking about, you know, managing postpartum rage, managing that anger, maybe we're making progress right. Let's say that, okay, you reach that for help. You've learned some healthy coping skills. Maybe you've learned to maybe leave the room right when you feel like that things are escalating. Understand at the same time that just because you are getting pretty good at regulating your emotions, that doesn't mean that you're not gonna have moments when you're gonna be dysregulated again, when you're gonna explode again, because healing, in this sense as well, it's not a straight line from point a to point b, it's a really messy line. Some days are going to be better and you're going to feel like, like, oh, I'm in control, I'm, I, I'm really nailing this postpartum rage thing, and there are going to be days when you just feel like you're back to square one. But when it feels like you're back to square one, know that you're not actually in square one, you're still in the process of healing.

Speaker 1: 32:47

I like that, you know, I think for my rage it was really unmet needs, and I think this goes to our next one is women have a hard time asking for help because we feel ashamed to ask for help. We feel like we should be doing it. We compare ourselves. Well, she's not asking for help, or maybe it's even to, since this mom has help you know more than others and then she may need a little bit more, she may need something different, but it's maybe. People are going. Well, you already have help, or you know you've ready. You know it could be like the stay at home mom. Well, you know you get to stay home, right, you don't have to balance the work too, or like it's always. It always some caveat that is played in our minds or told to us that we feel we're weak, we're not a good mom, right, or we should carry it all. It's like this false superpower woman label, right, that we have to put on this cape and do it all when the world has really made it harder for us, not easier.

Speaker 2: 33:46

Definitely like this perfect mom image that is so unrealistic. And again, let's remind ourselves that motherhood has never been meant to be something to do alone. And now I also think of, you know, being a mom and going back to work, and being a wife, or being the housekeeper, being the driver, being the doctor, sometimes, right, Like we have so many different roles within motherhood. And yes, asking for help is absolutely normal and there's nothing shameful about it. Now, what I see often that sometimes moms do not know who to ask, or maybe they have nobody to ask to help them. Not know who to ask, or maybe they have nobody to ask to help them. And then we need to strategize and figure out, like learning to let go, just learning to prioritize, understanding that it's okay to have a takeout dinner, or sometimes cereal will be dinner and that's perfectly fine.

Speaker 2: 34:47

It's okay if the house is not spotless. It's. All of those things are okay. It's okay if the house is not spotless, All of those things are okay. It's okay if sometimes the kid goes to sleep without taking a shower, right? I mean, it all comes down to which one is more unbearable for me, right? I'm not making home-cooked meal for dinner or giving them cereal. But at least I get some break right and I can I don't know watch my favorite TV show or take a long bath, Because sometimes it really that's why it's not even a good idea to compare yourself to others, Because maybe there's a mom who finds some relaxation in cleaning up the kitchen and cooking every single night and that's good, that's great.

Speaker 2: 35:30

Let them do it. But if that's not you, that's okay. Something else works for you, because it's really our choice. Like, if which one can I handle less? And when one of them becomes that unbearable that okay, I just can't take this anymore, then I will hopefully realize that okay, I'm going to have to let that go and just adjust to it, Because we're not good. We're never going to have less things to do, Never.

Speaker 2: 35:57

It's always just adding up and adding up and adding up. And especially if you have a full time job, if you have maybe many kids practices or taking them to the doctor, taking them to play, there's a lot to handle here. So asking for help is great and if you have people to help you, it's just straight up very hard to tell them what you need. But at least it's good to practice to tell them what you do not need, right? Yeah, Because sometimes people maybe in the postpartum period right, they come over and they bring a bunch of food, but maybe that's not what you need. Maybe you just need them to be there, hold the baby so you can take off for an hour, right? Even though the people have good intentions, they don't know what they don't know. And this is what I think most moms need to practice how to ask for help, how to be assertive and how to overcome that shame and guilt that's holding them back to ask for that help that they need.

Speaker 1: 37:02

And I think, too, something you hit on is new people really don't know what. They don't know Just like sometimes you don't know what, and I think that's important for moms as well. It's like you sometimes don't know. You know, in the beginning you may have this.

Speaker 1: 37:14

I think everybody has this picture of what maybe postpartum is going to be for the first time, right, or even it is. You have this picture of when your kid gets to this milestone or this kid. You know, you have this picture of your head and it's okay to say you know my needs are different now in this stage, or this is different than I expected. It doesn't mean that we're failing, right. It just means that we're new at this, our kids are new at this, and I say this all the time. I'm like you know, if our kids are learning to walk and they fall, right, we like encourage them, we get them back up and we don't go. You know well, they're never running a marathon, right, like we never just shut it down, we keep on. But we have a hard time. We're forgiven, I think, our own stumbles as moms.

Speaker 2: 37:57

Yes, and then we forget that we are learning. Right, yeah, instant learning experience being a parent, and probably you don't feel like you're the same mom today as you were a year ago or years ago or six months ago. Right, because for sure I know I'm not the same mom today as you were a year ago or years ago or six months ago.

Speaker 2: 38:13

Right, because for sure I know I'm not the same mom and even the home sporting period, which goes by really really quickly or well, I guess no, that's not the right way to say because it can feel like a really long time but the baby changes really, really quickly, going from one stage to another. So let's say you're at six months. You're going to be already a different mom than who you were when your baby was a month old. It's a very steep learning curve and we're all evolving.

Speaker 2: 38:46

And I like what you said, that you would encourage a toddler or a small child when they fall and then you encourage them to get back up, and the same thing goes for us. The same we need. Moms need so much love and care and attention because if we are not well, our children are not going to be well either. There's countless actual research on that that shows that the number one predictor of happy kids if their mom feels happy, feels happy in their relationship or just feels happy overall, because kids need to see that. Not to mention also that how we can model this to our children when we need a break, when mom or mommy today doesn't want to maybe play with you or mommy doesn't want to draw or mommy doesn't want to cook because mommy needs some time.

Speaker 2: 39:40

Even though our children may get upset, it's good for them to see that their mom sets boundaries, their mom takes a good care of themselves, and then they just learn at an early age they're going to learn to do that for themselves as well. It's so important. So we model the right behavior, we model the self-care, we model the saying no setting boundaries. And also when mommy, let's say, messes up and yells at you, and then mommy comes in and says maybe sorry, sorry that I yelled at you, I'm sorry that I did this or I said that, then the kids can see like, okay, this is what it means to repair a relationship. Right, this is what it means to forgive yourself for messing it up. So that's why it's also important for moms to learn to take care of themselves and encourage themselves and be kind to themselves, because, again, you're not only taking care of yourself in that moment, but you're modeling something to your kids as well.

Speaker 1: 40:42

I love that, I love all that and I think we forget that and little eyes are watching us, little ears are hearing us. I think it is that we're breaking and it's exhausting to do this, but we're breaking generational, you know cycles of, and toxicity. And societal, you know pressures. I think this it's exhausting to do a hard work. I always tell that to moms. It's like you want to do better, you want to do your, you know you're, you're doing the self-work, You're doing this hard work. You, you're a good mom, you know, and that's hard sometimes to be a good mom, Like I've never heard a bad mom, worry if she's a good mom you know, and that's, that is where I've always tried to say to people you know, the fact that you are trying should be just like.

Speaker 1: 41:26

That shows you're on the right path. And it's hard for everybody.

Speaker 2: 41:31

Yeah, absolutely. When you are trying, when you feel guilty, when you feel ashamed, when you feel like you're a horrible mom, that is the ultimate sign of being a good mom. You are trying to do something differently or better. Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 41:48

It's hard, though. Now I have a question that we ask all our guests. I'm going to ask you now. You have some experience under your belt of motherhood and you know personally and as a mental health professional. What would you go back and tell yourself with all this knowledge? Or, going back to yourself when you first saw that pregnancy test 12 years ago? What information could you tell her that would have maybe helped her along the way?

Speaker 2: 42:14

Wow, oh, my Okay, give me some time here, because that's a hard question, it's a loaded question. It's a podcast episode.

Speaker 1: 42:26

You say, listen to this episode, you're going to need it.

Speaker 2: 42:29

Yeah, time traveling Back to the future. You're going to need it. Yeah, time traveling Back to the future, uh-huh, what would I tell her? Well, I would tell her not to sweat the small things, even if it feels that it's something to worry about or it's not perfect, because I was really fixated on do things exactly by the book. Just let that go like learn to let go, I guess. Yeah, that's what I would. That's what I would tell her. Just learn and practice to let go.

Speaker 2: 43:03

Yeah, because, much as, of course, motherhood is a very serious matter, I think it's so important, even inhood, to learn to let go and not to take every single little detail so seriously. That's what I would tell her. That was my biggest challenge. So I would tell her that and that's, of course, it's easier said than done. So I don't know how I would do it, because when it's completely you're completely new to that situation, you just don't know, and that trying to grasp on every little thing that you can control, because then you internally feel like like you're in control, but actually the opposite, because the more we try to control things, the more we feel anxious, the more we feel lost as opposed to learning, to learning to accept the unknown, learning to accept that sometimes things are not going to happen exactly the way we want, and that's okay too. I'm still going to be okay. We're still going to be fine.

Speaker 1: 44:02

I think that I resonate that, I think so many people resonate that and it does go back. We'll have to have you back for a whole other episode. We can talk about control and motherhood and I think, as we all suffer that. But before we go, tell us where our listeners can find you, and I'll put this all in our show notes listeners, if you're driving, if you're doing car, pull, you're doing the chores, listening to us, so don't worry. But, esther, tell us where we can connect with you.

Speaker 2: 44:26

All across social media. My handle is Golden Tears, tears, therapy, so I'm mainly actually I'm mainly active on Instagram, but I also have a Facebook and TikTok account.

Speaker 1: 44:36

I have a YouTube, golden tears therapy, perfect Well, thank you so much. It's a joy. Please continue to do what you're doing, because you're helping so many, and we'll have you back.

Speaker 2: 44:46

Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1: 44:48

I really enjoyed it. All right, guys, we'll see you back next week. Have a good week.

Speaker 3: 44:55

Maternal mental health is as important as physical health. The Preview Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables, like anxiety, anger and even apathy. Hosted by CEO founder Sarah Parkhurst and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay, each episode focuses on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum. Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges, as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms. You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time. Please know you're not alone on this journey. We're here to help.