Postpartum Mental Health Awareness

Speaker 1 0:10

Hey guys , welcome back to Preview Alliance podcast . I'm so excited about today's conversation that we are going to . We're big fans and you guys have probably seen her posts on Instagram because a couple of them got around the I feel like the same motherhood you know , kind of algorithms here . But I have Esther here of Golden Tears Therapy and we are going to talk about actually one of those posts postpartum emotions we don't talk about . So , esther , welcome . I'm so glad we finally got to connect .

Speaker 2 0:39

Thank you so much for having me . I'm also excited to be here .

Speaker 1 0:42

You know , I resonated so much with a lot of what you are thankfully putting out on the internet , as someone who is in the maternal mental space of just kind of saying the things that you know it's , if I find it motherhood and postpartum pregnancy it's sometimes we just want to hear the positive and then , like when you see someone like mention yeah , I feel like that too , or I'm struggling with that too it really resonates of honesty and vulnerability . So before we dive in , can you tell our listeners about you , what brought you to this space and kind of why this is your passion ?

Speaker 2 1:18

Yes , my name is Esther Kalman and I'm a perinatal psychotherapist in San Diego , california . My private practice is completely online , so I work from home , and the reason why I'm working in this field probably it's very similar to many other clinicians who have also experienced some sort of perinatal mental health challenges , so my story is also very personal . When my son was born 12 years ago , I've gone through besides from being a brand new immigrant to the US and just going through the culture shock , being in a brand new relationship , marriage , just getting used to and adjusted to this new world that is so different from where I was born and raised in Hungary . So that , and on top of that , having a baby and being completely here by myself , I didn't have any I still don't have any family here . It was . It was just like like if someone would have thrown me into this deep cold water and it was really challenging , and I guess part of the healing process is always , as we say , the meaning making you know , finding your purpose in your sufferings .

Speaker 2 2:40

In very specific terms , we call this also post-traumatic growth , right , but basically that's how I decided to go back to school , get my master's degree , and I got involved very early on when I was still in school with Postpartum Support International . I've been since then . They're volunteers . I started out with the helpline . They have a great helpline text line where they provide free resources and support for moms or their families , and now I'm helping them more with the social media content creation . And I'm also a mom of two . I have , like I mentioned , a 12-year-old , a four-year-old , and I'm helping other moms to make them feel less alone , because what I remember from my experience that I honestly thought I was the only person who struggled , and that could not be further from the truth . So that's why I'm doing what I'm doing and I love my job . So that's why I'm doing what I'm doing and I love my job .

Speaker 1 3:44

Thank you so much for sharing that . And you know , I can't imagine everything being so new and then you being I mean , not having any familiarities , not having your support , and then not knowing really what you were experiencing was not a you thing . Right , it wasn't like you were failing , you weren't the only one , but it does . I resonate with that . I mean I have I'm a nurse in my background . You know , I thought I would have known , you know what postpartum depression was . I thought I would have known what anxiety and PTSD was and I knew . I truly did not know .

Speaker 1 4:17

And I find it very interesting . There's so many mental health professionals and OBs and pediatricians that they'll say you know , I talk to patients about this and I experienced this . So I always say it takes no prisoners in the sense of anybody , in any situation . But what I would be interested to know was there things that you did , you know , with your four-year-old during pregnancy and postpartum ? That was different , that you're like I don't want to go back that way or I was more aware . What was a little different there ?

Speaker 2 4:50

So very good question . I went to therapy , like when I found that I was pregnant . I said , okay , I'm going to prepare for this differently , because even when you think you are prepared for your first one , it's still a shock . It's good to be prepared , but nobody knows it until you actually go through it . So since I had that experience with my first one and I knew exactly what is that I want , what is that I do not want to do , who I want there to be to help , who I want there to be helping me , who I do not want there , like everything , it's just so important , I think , to find a mental health professional who can help you figure these things out , help you prepare for postpartum differently , because , like you mentioned earlier , like you as a nurse , you knew of postpartum depression or postpartum anxiety .

Speaker 2 5:46

But the truth is that often when you are experiencing it , you don't know that that's what it is . You just think that's motherhood , that's normal , that's just how my life is going to be . Or sometimes you even question your own personality , like is this sad , anxious , irritable person is actually who I am , because it feels like that it's who you are , when that's not who you are . Those are the symptoms . Those are different experiences . So I see many moms who are pregnant with their second babies for the same exact reason , because they want to prepare differently , and that's what I did with my second one . So I went to therapy , even though I was already a therapist . But it's different when you're obviously the patient or the professional , and I just made it very clear to myself , to my partner , that this is what I need and this is what I do not need . Also , understanding myself better , right , like ? What does that look like for me when I am depressed or I'm feeling down or it's too much ?

Speaker 2 6:50

So , knowing yourself because what maybe postpartum anxiety looks like for me might be different for you and knowing your triggers , knowing what helps you feel calm , what , what , who to reach out to , who can I trust ? Right , who can I talk to ? Because often maybe you have a husband , you have a wife , your partner . They are helpful , but maybe they are not the right people to talk to , right ? Sometimes it's not your partner who you want to share your deepest fears with , and that's OK , because I feel like there's also pressure , right , like ? Oh , my partner has to be my best friend , my partner has to be my everything . So if I am not able to share certain things with my partner , then there's something wrong with me again .

Speaker 2 7:34

But no , you just find a trusted person or informing your OBGYN . That's another thing , like when you're , and when I was pregnant for the second time , I straight up told my OB that look , this is what I experienced , you know , can we look out for that ? You know they would screen me more often for depression and anxiety . Also , I gave birth in a hospital , so in the hospital I let them know and , as I'm saying it , I'm thinking it can be difficult for moms to do that because there's so much shame around it . So , especially when you're going through that for the first time and I think that's why a support of a mental health professional or a trusted friend can be helpful just to kind of break down that shame that it's okay to say these things because so many moms have to go through that- and you know , I know I think it's hard on both levels , right , because sometimes you don't know what you don't know when you're first going into it , right , and then you experience it and often it's rock bottom .

Speaker 1 8:35

But we do see this too . A lot of our pre-vm moms are second or third time moms and through education , through trust , through screening , they'll go wow , that is what I actually had with my first or my second right . I just thought I was failing . I just thought , you know , motherhood was easier for everybody else . I just thought all this and then it's almost like a grief that they have to grieve through right Of like . That was my experience and I didn't know it , my family didn't know it , my support , like I didn't have support and I always tell people it's , it's the system is set up not for moms to succeed when it comes to our mental health .

Speaker 2 9:15

Absolutely and and exactly as you said it , like there's so much grief and loss there , even when you are pregnant for the second time and you really realize like , okay , this is what I experienced and we need to grieve that loss , because there's something about postpartum mental health challenges that I think I always say . They are so sneaky . So , even when you think that 12 years let's say , in my case , 12 years pass , right , I still feel the guilt time to time , like even right now , I can just feel a little bit that , oh , this is what I had to go through , let's say , in the first year of my son's life , and then I wish I could go back . I wish I because I didn't get help until , like , my son was more than a year old , and you know , it's another thing that maybe we can touch up on .

Speaker 2 10:04

But yeah , you have that guilt . You wish that you could do things differently , you could win that time back , and now , maybe , when you're having your second baby , you know better what you would do differently , and that's the time that you can get back . And then there's this immense amount of guilt , right , the loss , and then , even though you know it's not your fault , but just because you know it . It doesn't mean you feel it that way , right , yeah ? So , yeah , you need to grieve that loss . I think it's during your second pregnancy or once your second baby is born and , as painful as it is , it can be very healing for the second time that , okay , I'm grieving that loss and I'm also helping those wounds to heal through my second baby .

Speaker 1 10:49

Yeah , I mean , I will be honest . There is points back . I look back and my fog was really bad memory of like , and which depression I feel like , stole a lot of memories from me and I hit really rock bottom is between like four and six months postpartum . You know if , when I needed help and you know I can't recall certain things . Sometimes people will say , well , do you remember how he was at this ? And I'm like you know , and I do remember how sad I was . I do remember how it felt like I couldn't go on , and but the details of , well , when did he roll over ? How did you roll over ? How did you roll over ? Or you know , or the solids or this , and I'm kind of like I such a it feels stolen from me .

Speaker 1 11:31

You know , and I did , with my second , really almost have a fear again , even though I had steps in place , of what's if this happens again , right , and then statistics tells us you do have a chance of it , right , you have a 50% more chance . But it did almost put some pressure on me too , of I wanted to right the wrong , like I wanted this to be such a special experience because it wasn't , and then I felt guilt again of like . Well , I was depressed with my first , but now here's my second . I'm not so . It was all this mix , and I'm sure you hear this with your clients and maybe even felt this way yourself absolutely what you just said earlier , that you can't recall certain things from the first year .

Speaker 2 12:14

My goodness , it's the same for me and that brings up another layer of guilt .

Navigating Postpartum Mental Health Battles

Speaker 2 12:19

It's almost like that you're watching a movie , right , like you remember certain pieces but you're not fully in it . You're almost like you're like an observer of what was really happening at the time , and then exactly what you said . And then now you feel for the second time like so much pressure , like I want to do it good this time . It has to be , I have to remember . I remember for the second time . I would even I would even write down when my daughter , I don't know started to walk or crawl , like the date . So I would have that right .

Speaker 2 12:50

Yeah , there's a lot of pressure and lots of mixed emotions because maybe , as you're experiencing differently , maybe in a more pleasant way , motherhood for the second time in the back of your mind it's still there like oh , what happened to me for the first time ? And you're right , the memory is just foggy . When you're going through depression , that absolutely inhibits your ability to be able to focus , be in the present , to concentrate , to remember . So that's why many moms say that as well , that they just can't recall .

Speaker 1 13:21

And they said they don't talk about . What do you think led you to saying I need help at that one year part ? Why do you think you able , you know , waited so long and be ? What was kind of that ? So if listeners are going , okay , you know what ? What brought you to that ? Because oftentimes we hear stories of you know we've overcome and now we're doing this our lives because we've lived this right . It's almost like a testimony . We've lived this right . It's almost like a testimony . But I think a lot of listeners don't sometimes hear that break point right , that kind of the ugly point that we all hit or where we it's moment . Or it's a someone else or it's a . I just can't go on from here like this .

Speaker 2 13:57

I waited more than a year and the reason is probably what most moms would say that I , first of all , I didn't even really know that was something that I could get help for , because I thought that was just me , that's just who I am , and lots of shame and guilt , honestly , almost from the get go . I still remember this picture so vividly in my mind that my son was about a week or two weeks old and I was holding him . I was sitting on my bed and I was holding him and I was looking at him and I asked him that who are you ? Because that's another piece that we don't talk about . You know , there's so much pressure about you have to bond immediately or this magical thing will just happen . And then you're going to feel this immense love for your baby and I knew I loved my baby but I didn't really feel it and those are again very two different things . So I remember that picture again , like I said , very vividly .

Speaker 2 14:56

And from that time and on I just felt that I was doing almost like a to-do list , right , like I just check , check , check , change the diaper , fed the baby , did the laundry , took him for a walk , but I was not really enjoying it . And what happened is that there was a nurse at the time who would visit me every couple of months . Actually , she started these visits when I was still pregnant . It was some sort of program that I was part of and it was really helpful because mainly because , like we talked about a trusted person I started to develop a very good rapport with her . She was really nice and I'm still , you know , forever grateful for her , to be honest , because if it wasn't for her , I would have never got help . So , basically , she had to screen me for postpartum depression , postpartum anxiety and , like most moms would do , I would lie , because moms are great at lying . We're great at lying to our kids .

Speaker 2 15:56

We are great at lying to ourselves . We're just good at that . That's our skill . So it's a self-administered test , the Edinburgh scale . And I just always check oh yes , I'm fine , I'm fine , even though I wasn't feeling it , but there was no way that I would tell anyone . And then I remember seeing other moms at the playground or , you know , on social media or anywhere on the street , and they looked always happy or at least didn't seem as miserable as I felt inside .

Speaker 2 16:27

And I remember feeling angry . I was actually jealous . And sometimes when someone said , oh , this is our , I'm pregnant with my second baby , I would feel so angry and jealous at the same time . Because I would be angry that why would you do that ? It's horrible to have a child , it ruins your life and also jealous because I wish I could feel the way you do , you know . So , basically , this nurse would come every couple of months to check on me .

Speaker 2 16:53

I would keep lying and lying and lying and eventually , when the emotional pain was , when the emotional pain was , it just became so , so unbearable , like when I couldn't even lie to myself anymore . And that was around that one year mark . That's when I just sent her a text message one evening , something like that , I'm not feeling well or I think I need some support . And that's when she sent me the postpartum support international phone number . I reached out and they connected me to a therapist and right away I remember the first time when I went to see the therapist .

Speaker 2 17:34

After the first session I felt so much better , simply because there was this space with this really nice lady who listened to me and she didn't judge me , she didn't think I was crazy . It almost seemed like , oh , she gets me , she just knows what I mean . And that helped me a lot . So I would go every single week and this is when I just started to feel better . Not that my environment changed completely right , because certain things you can't control in your environment but the fact that you have someone who's there for you , who helps , who not only maybe teaches you coping skills but just validates how you feel , just makes you feel less alone . That can be really life changing .

Speaker 1 18:21

I remember that , my first therapy session too and I think when people you maybe say that to has never experienced this or they feel a certain way about therapy , they're like what do you mean ? Just one session , and it doesn't always happen for everybody , and I preference that . But I had been bottled up so much that I felt the same way , what you said . I just was like it came over me and I was like I'm going to be okay . It's not . I wasn't immediately okay , but I had that hope that I think I had lost . And again it just I think that's the scariest part is really like that text you sent right . Then that call the post part , like that is that step that we try to tell people that you know at some level that you need help and support . It may take a while , but there comes a point that it's inside of you saying just reach out . And so I love how it's like a full circle that you call that number . Now you are with them . I think that's such a beautiful story .

Speaker 2 19:19

Yeah , I'm honestly , I'm forever grateful for those two people the therapist and that nurse because you need , everyone needs people like that in their lives . You know , and again , like I mentioned , it's not always your best friend , it's not always your mom , dad , grandparents . Sometimes it's a stranger that you know you never met . And exactly the hope , that's what matters . I mean , in life we all need that , right , like hope . If we didn't have hope then we wouldn't even wake up in the morning , right , because then what for ?

Speaker 1 19:53

Yeah , let's talk because I love this conversation of just really the experience of it In your post about you know the realities of postpartum , that we we don't talk about the emotions and you know the guilt of not feeling happy enough , I think , as moms

Navigating Motherhood Challenges and Emotions

Speaker 1 20:12

. I think that even outside , I think it starts in pregnancy , honestly , right , like cause when you're throwing up you're miserable , you're fatigued , right , or you're start , you know , depression , anxiety starts in pregnancy , right , like you you're not feeling happy , right , or you're like you're feeling resentment that creeps in , right , and you don't . People , especially where I'm at in the South , it's very much . You know you should be blessed that you're carrying a child , right , so it's very you don't feel validated and you just kind of shove that in and it feels really tough .

Speaker 2 20:49

Yeah , the not feeling happy enough . That's an overarching theme of motherhood during pregnancy , postpartum , but even after , when you have older kids . Right , because nobody can feel happy all the time , with or without kids . We live in a society where we believe that happiness is the default feeling that we need to have , but that's not the case because , especially in this challenging period of postpartum , right , there's no way that you would always feel happy . And then , because of the pressure of society , the fact that everyone posts blissful pictures on social media , you think and you feel that there's something wrong with you .

Speaker 2 21:36

And if I'm not feeling happy all the time about motherhood , then it means that I'm a bad mom . When , again , happiness wouldn't exist without sadness , right , I mean , otherwise we wouldn't even put , we couldn't even put it into context . I mean it has to be in a context . And then what I think most moms , or all moms , need to remember and I have to remind myself of that as well , even today , very often that just because today is a bad day or today I'm not enjoying motherhood , that doesn't mean that , generally speaking , I don't love my kids or I don't love to be a mom . It's part of being a mom that some days you're going to wish you could be alone , and that's okay , that's totally okay . Yeah , now I think that's okay , that's totally okay .

Speaker 1 22:22

Yeah , no , I think that's a very true statement . You know , it's like when your baby's up for the fourth time at night and you're exhausted and you just , you know it's hard to feel happy in that moment , right , or as your kids get older and you have different kinds of challenges and you're having to navigate that there's no rule book , there's no handbook . You know , and yeah , it's this , at some point it's like we've equivalated . You know , happiness equals being a mom and there's no other title that I'm aware of that that's forced upon like it is for moms .

Speaker 2 22:53

That's very true . Yes , it's just forced upon moms and let's help society understand that a mom can be upset , angry , irritable , and still be happy for the fact that she's a mom . Yeah , it's not mutually exclusive .

Speaker 1 23:11

No , I love that , the pressure to snap back physically . I think no matter who you are at some point it's going to be an aunt , it's going to be a co-worker , it's going to be someone who says , oh , are you pregnant ? And you are not pregnant . You know to you , there's moments that you will feel it and it's hard to see . Like you said , social media is in your face and , let's be honest too , there is some companies out there that target and market and go after this very vulnerable pain point of fast fix , snap back , pay this money , and it's very vicious . I really get really upset thinking about how they pry on and prey on , just like the moms are vulnerability . But what's your thoughts when it comes to hearing clients tell you you know , I just want it's very understandable to want our body back right , because you've grown this baby , you fed this baby , your body . You want it back , but you have to wrap your head around it sometimes will never go back that way , a hundred percent .

Speaker 2 24:14

Yeah , sometimes it doesn't , and that's okay too . So first of all I would say , like , remind them , like your body just you know grown a baby , you birthed the baby . So let's just be grateful first , or try to be grateful , that our body was able to do that for us and for our family , you know , for the baby . And then understanding that your body deserves time . If your body grows a baby for nine months , then it also needs some time to heal , right , not to bounce back . I never say to bounce back because , like you said , sometimes it never goes back and actually that is okay too . I mean that's normal , Because if you imagine right , and then I really like to break it down , like look how big your belly got , right , like I mean your organs reorganize themselves inside in order to make space for your baby . If you had C-section or vaginal birth , I mean that's a lot to go through , both of them , right ? And here I just also want to add that C-section is a real birth . So , because that's another thing that we tend to think that oh , if it was a C-section , then you didn't really give birth , but of course you did . So just these gentle reminders that your body deserves time .

Speaker 2 25:31

From research we know that on average it takes about 18 months year and a half , right To somewhat get your pre-pregnancy body back Again . We don't know if it's going to be the same , but if you just think about the timeline 18 months that's for a reason , right . I mean your body needs that time to heal . And another thing is that healing , whether if it's physical or emotional , it's not a competition , it's not on a timer , right . Emotional it's not a competition , it's not on a timer , right . There's nobody gets a reward in motherhood , right , like you're back first or you healed first . There's no such thing . It's not a race . So , whatever your body needs in that moment , that's what you need to focus on and just give yourself some grace because your body is beautiful , that was able to grow a baby and birth a baby .

Speaker 2 26:26

And it's hard . It's hard , you're right , when there's companies target that , there's fitness coaches like postpartum fitness , how to win or bounce back the fastest way . I mean , of course , be healthy , but I mean you would want to be healthy whether you are pregnant or not , or had a baby or not , yeah , and not to talk about sometimes , you know , sadly , when there's loss , right , like when you lose your baby and then your body doesn't know , and then you have to go through that process , like your milk comes in or your body creates certain . You know symptoms or you feel , physically feel certain things that your body has to go through after giving birth , except that unfortunately , then you don't have your baby . So it's so important to be patient with yourself in every sense and you know what . If someone says otherwise , you are welcome to say no to them in whatever form you want to . You know that brings in the boundary question , but just remember , it's not a race , it's not a race at all .

Speaker 1 27:34

I love that it's not a race . And this one I struggled with . Our next one is who's part of rage ? Oh yeah , struggled with . Our next one is who's part of rage oh yeah , I think I really believe I'm talking to a lot of moms is that is so common , it's so taboo , it makes people extremely uncomfortable , it makes the mom uncomfortable and it's off . Sometimes the first time in their life they felt rage like this and it's the most , I would say the most , conflicting situation they're feeling rage over . Right , it's like you know , little things induced by babies or the kids or the situation that , again , society's painting . It's easy , it's perfect . You're supposed to naturally know this , like you're supposed to not get irritated by this . And then it scared me . It was intense for me , very shameful and it felt like a dirty secret . I could not say Absolutely .

Speaker 2 28:26

The shame is probably one of the biggest steps around postpartum rage or rage in general . But we're talking about postpartum . Well , first of all , it's not the reflection of who you are as a mom . That's the number one thing that I would like all moms know . And another thing is that I would always say to my clients and to myself as well , because I have experienced postpartum rage too that it's a messenger .

Speaker 2 28:54

Like anger , rage . It is a messenger . It's trying to tell you something , right , because , like you said , yes , it feels like that . It's not who you are , like this extremely intense emotion . It's not just like I'm a little bit frustrated or irritable , no , it's like this , almost like you're completely losing your mind , losing control . You scream , you maybe throw or break things . So it can be that intense . It can look different for everybody , but it's really really intense .

Speaker 2 29:25

And once it's over , then you feel really shameful , you feel really apologetic and often people around you adults , maybe they don't understand it they feel really angry or upset for your behavior , which then can add another layer of shame and guilt . So , understanding that rage is trying to tell you something . It probably means that you're walking on really thin ice , your needs are not met , maybe you haven't slept well for a while , maybe you haven't had a chance to have some quiet time for a while , maybe you haven't had food or taken a shower , or maybe you haven't spent time with some of your good friends . So just , it's important to pause in those moments or after sometimes like , okay , what is that I really need ? What are my needs ? Do I need help at home ? Do I just want my mother-in-law to leave ? Right , I mean , it can be anything . It can be really anything , and it's hard to be honest sometimes with ourselves .

Speaker 2 30:32

But that is the number one step when we try to kind of peel it right Like an onion and looking at anger again and rage as a messenger and see what I really need and then attend to it , like , give yourself what you need . So that way . Because when you actually take care of yourself , right , so maybe you need to see a therapist , maybe you need to join a support group , and it's important to learn coping skills as well . So I would still encourage everybody to learn how to manage those very intense feelings right , because that's also important so nobody gets hurt , whether if it's physically or emotionally or mentally .

Speaker 2 31:14

But while we're learning those coping skills . It's also important , at the same time , to attend to those needs that are unmet . And when we do those things and it's important for all moms to understand , like you're not you're actually doing the best that you can , not just for yourself , but for your family , because then they are going to get a mom who is more relaxed , more regulated emotionally and just more present for them . That's great . Can I just add one more thing ?

Speaker 1 31:46

Yeah , yeah .

Speaker 2 31:47

And when we're talking about , you know , managing postpartum rage , managing that anger , maybe we're making progress right . Let's say that , okay , you reach that for help . You've learned some healthy coping skills . Maybe you've learned to maybe leave the room right when you feel like that things are escalating . Understand at the same time that just because you are getting pretty good at regulating your emotions , that doesn't mean that you're not gonna have moments when you're gonna be dysregulated again , when you're gonna explode again , because healing , in this sense as well , it's not a straight line from point a to point b , it's a really messy line . Some days are going to be better and you're going to feel like , like , oh , I'm in control , I'm , I , I'm really nailing this postpartum rage thing , and there are going to be days when you just feel like you're back to square one . But when it feels like you're back to square one , know that you're not actually in square one , you're still in the process of healing .

Speaker 1 32:47

I like that , you know , I think for my rage it was really unmet needs , and I think this goes to our next one is women have a hard time asking for help because we feel ashamed to ask for help . We feel like we should be doing it . We compare ourselves . Well , she's not asking for help , or maybe it's even to , since this mom has help you know more than others and then she may need a little bit more , she may need something different , but it's maybe . People are going . Well , you already have help , or you know you've ready . You know it could be like the stay at home mom . Well , you know you get to stay home , right , you don't have to balance the work too , or like it's always . It always some caveat that is played in our minds or told to us that we feel we're weak , we're not a good mom , right , or we should carry it all . It's like this false superpower woman label , right , that we have to put on this cape and do it all when the world has really made it harder for us , not easier .

Speaker 2 33:46

Definitely like this perfect mom image that is so unrealistic . And again , let's remind ourselves that motherhood has never been meant to be something to do alone . And now I also think of , you know , being a mom and going back to work , and being a wife , or being the housekeeper , being the driver , being the doctor , sometimes , right , Like we have so many different roles within motherhood . And yes , asking for help is absolutely normal and there's nothing shameful about

Learning to Let Go in Motherhood

Speaker 2 34:22

it . Now , what I see often that sometimes moms do not know who to ask , or maybe they have nobody to ask to help them . Not know who to ask , or maybe they have nobody to ask to help them . And then we need to strategize and figure out , like learning to let go , just learning to prioritize , understanding that it's okay to have a takeout dinner , or sometimes cereal will be dinner and that's perfectly fine .

Speaker 2 34:47

It's okay if the house is not spotless . It's . All of those things are okay . It's okay if the house is not spotless , All of those things are okay . It's okay if sometimes the kid goes to sleep without taking a shower , right ? I mean , it all comes down to which one is more unbearable for me , right ? I'm not making home-cooked meal for dinner or giving them cereal . But at least I get some break right and I can I don't know watch my favorite TV show or take a long bath , Because sometimes it really that's why it's not even a good idea to compare yourself to others , Because maybe there's a mom who finds some relaxation in cleaning up the kitchen and cooking every single night and that's good , that's great .

Speaker 2 35:30

Let them do it . But if that's not you , that's okay . Something else works for you , because it's really our choice . Like , if which one can I handle less ? And when one of them becomes that unbearable that okay , I just can't take this anymore , then I will hopefully realize that okay , I'm going to have to let that go and just adjust to it , Because we're not good . We're never going to have less things to do , Never .

Speaker 2 35:57

It's always just adding up and adding up and adding up . And especially if you have a full time job , if you have maybe many kids practices or taking them to the doctor , taking them to play , there's a lot to handle here . So asking for help is great and if you have people to help you , it's just straight up very hard to tell them what you need . But at least it's good to practice to tell them what you do not need , right ? Yeah , Because sometimes people maybe in the postpartum period right , they come over and they bring a bunch of food , but maybe that's not what you need . Maybe you just need them to be there , hold the baby so you can take off for an hour , right ? Even though the people have good intentions , they don't know what they don't know . And this is what I think most moms need to practice how to ask for help , how to be assertive and how to overcome that shame and guilt that's holding them back to ask for that help that they need .

Speaker 1 37:02

And I think , too , something you hit on is new people really don't know what . They don't know Just like sometimes you don't know what , and I think that's important for moms as well . It's like you sometimes don't know . You know , in the beginning you may have this .

Speaker 1 37:14

I think everybody has this picture of what maybe postpartum is going to be for the first time , right , or even it is . You have this picture of when your kid gets to this milestone or this kid . You know , you have this picture of your head and it's okay to say you know my needs are different now in this stage , or this is different than I expected . It doesn't mean that we're failing , right . It just means that we're new at this , our kids are new at this , and I say this all the time . I'm like you know , if our kids are learning to walk and they fall , right , we like encourage them , we get them back up and we don't go . You know well , they're never running a marathon , right , like we never just shut it down , we keep on . But we have a hard time . We're forgiven , I think , our own stumbles as moms .

Speaker 2 37:57

Yes , and then we forget that we are learning . Right , yeah , instant learning experience being a parent , and probably you don't feel like you're the same mom today as you were a year ago or years ago or six months ago . Right , because for sure I know I'm not the same mom today as you were a year ago or years ago or six months ago .

Speaker 2 38:13

Right , because for sure I know I'm not the same mom and even the home sporting period , which goes by really really quickly or well , I guess no , that's not the right way to say because it can feel like a really long time but the baby changes really , really quickly , going from one stage to another . So let's say you're at six months . You're going to be already a different mom than who you were when your baby was a month old . It's a very steep learning curve and we're all evolving .

Speaker 2 38:46

And I like what you said , that you would encourage a toddler or a small child when they fall and then you encourage them to get back up , and the same thing goes for us . The same we need . Moms need so much love and care and attention because if we are not well , our children are not going to be well either . There's countless actual research on that that shows that the number one predictor of happy kids if their mom feels happy , feels happy in their relationship or just feels happy overall , because kids need to see that . Not to mention also that how we can model this to our children when we need a break , when mom or mommy today doesn't want to maybe play with you or mommy doesn't want to draw or mommy doesn't want to cook because mommy needs some time .

Speaker 2 39:40

Even though our children may get upset , it's good for them to see that their mom sets boundaries , their mom takes a good care of themselves , and then they just learn at an early age they're going to learn to do that for themselves as well . It's so important . So we model the right behavior , we model the self-care , we model the saying no setting boundaries . And also when mommy , let's say , messes up and yells at you , and then mommy comes in and says maybe sorry , sorry that I yelled at you , I'm sorry that I did this or I said that , then the kids can see like , okay , this is what it means to repair a relationship . Right , this is what it means to forgive yourself for messing it up . So that's why it's also important for moms to learn to take care of themselves and encourage themselves and be kind to themselves , because , again , you're not only taking care of yourself in that moment , but you're modeling something to your kids as well .

Speaker 1 40:42

I love that , I love all that and I think we forget that and little eyes are watching us , little ears are hearing us . I think it is that we're breaking and it's exhausting to do this , but we're breaking generational , you know cycles of , and toxicity . And societal , you know pressures . I think this it's exhausting to do a hard work . I always tell that to moms . It's like you want to do better , you want to do your , you know you're , you're doing the self-work , You're doing this hard work . You , you're a good mom , you know , and that's hard sometimes to be a good mom , Like I've never heard a bad mom , worry if she's a good mom you know , and that's , that is where I've always tried to say to people you know , the fact that you are trying should be just like .

Speaker 1 41:26

That shows you're on the right path . And it's hard for everybody .

Speaker 2 41:31

Yeah , absolutely . When you are trying , when you feel guilty , when you feel ashamed , when you feel like you're a horrible mom , that is the ultimate sign of being a good mom . You are trying to do something differently or better . Absolutely .

Speaker 1 41:48

It's hard , though . Now I have a question that we ask all our guests . I'm going to ask you now . You have some experience under your belt of motherhood and you know personally and as a mental health professional . What would you go back and tell yourself with all this knowledge ? Or , going back to yourself when you first saw that pregnancy test 12 years ago ? What information could you tell her that would have maybe helped her along the way ?

Speaker 2 42:14

Wow , oh , my Okay , give me some time here , because that's a hard question , it's a loaded question . It's a podcast episode .

Speaker 1 42:26

You say , listen to this episode , you're going to need it .

Speaker 2 42:29

Yeah , time traveling Back to the future . You're going to need it . Yeah , time traveling Back to the future , uh-huh , what would I tell her ? Well , I would tell her not to sweat the small things , even if it feels that it's something to worry about or it's not perfect , because I was really fixated on do things exactly by the book . Just let that go like learn to let go , I guess . Yeah , that's what I would . That's what I would tell her . Just learn and practice to let go .

Speaker 2 43:03

Yeah , because , much as , of course , motherhood is a very serious matter , I think it's so important , even inhood , to learn to let go and not to take every single little detail so seriously . That's what I would tell her . That was my biggest challenge . So I would tell her that and that's , of course , it's easier said than done . So I don't know how I would do it , because when it's completely you're completely new to that situation , you just don't know , and that trying to grasp on every little thing that you can control , because then you internally feel like like you're in control , but actually the opposite , because the more we try to control things , the more we feel anxious , the more we feel lost as opposed to learning , to learning to accept the unknown , learning to accept that sometimes things are not going to happen exactly the way we want , and that's okay too . I'm still going to be okay . We're still going to be fine .

Speaker 1 44:02

I think that I resonate that , I think so many people resonate that and it does go back . We'll have to have you back for a whole other episode . We can talk about control and motherhood and I think , as we all suffer that . But before we go , tell us where our listeners can find you , and I'll put this all in our show notes listeners , if you're driving , if you're doing car , pull , you're doing the chores , listening to us , so don't worry . But , esther , tell us where we can connect with you .

Speaker 2 44:26

All across social media . My handle is Golden Tears , tears , therapy , so I'm mainly actually I'm mainly active on Instagram , but I also have a Facebook and TikTok account .

Speaker 1 44:36

I have a YouTube , golden tears therapy , perfect Well , thank you so much . It's a joy . Please continue to do what you're doing , because you're helping so many , and we'll have you back .

Speaker 2 44:46

Thank you so much for having me .

Speaker 1 44:48

I really enjoyed it . All right , guys , we'll see you back next week . Have a good week .

Speaker 3 44:55

Maternal mental health is as important as physical health . The Preview Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables , like anxiety , anger and even apathy . Hosted by CEO founder Sarah Parkhurst and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay , each episode focuses on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum . Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges , as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms . You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time . Please know you're not alone on this journey . We're here to help .