Speaker 1: 0:10

Hey guys, welcome to PreviewLine's podcast. This is Sarah, and today I have the pleasure of speaking again to Pam Fallon. You guys know her from our previous episode of Learning to Read, but today we're talking about from infant literacy. Pam Allen is the founder CEO of Dewey. She's a leading literacy expert. She's an author. She's an advocate for children and for reading education. We're so excited to have her back in TuneIn. Welcome, Pam, we are so excited to have you back. And we today are talking about womb to one year, the baby years.

Speaker 2: 0:46

So excited to be here again. I love your podcast and so happy to talk to all the network of great families that you have participating.

Speaker 1: 0:55

Well, we're a big fan of you, as always, and I off air listeners had just updated Pam about my own life with my reading and challenges of things, so to let you know like we're all in this together to say that. But, pam, I remember when I was pregnant and I want you to speak on this, and they're like start reading to the baby in the womb. You know, day one, start reading and I thought really, you know what is this? And I think we're missing a huge benefit of reading out loud, which, by the way, it is going to be reading out loud on February 5th. So this is perfect timing to kind of dive into the importance of starting when you're pregnant, in that first year of life.

Speaker 2: 1:37

You know what? I know it might sound kind of funny because obviously they're not here yet with us, but it actually really does matter, because when you read aloud, even your cadence, your tone, the way that you're engaging with a story is actually different. So in the womb there's a reverberation of your voice that is going to be their most beloved and cherished voice when they arrive on planet Earth, is going to be very much baked into them as they're developing, just like you know, truthfully, we worry a lot about what we're eating during pregnancy. You know we think about it. We might not always do it perfectly, but we're, you know, embracing that idea. But you know what their brains are developing too, and so is their sense of safety and security right in that womb time. So the beautiful thing about reading aloud is that it definitely changes the way that you speak. It changes the essence of you If you think about it. Whether you're reading aloud from a children's book, or reading aloud from a poem, or even if you're just like reading aloud to your husband or wife across the kitchen table reading the news, all of that, it changes the way you talk, and so I really recommend to parents and grandparents that are sitting beside that pregnant mom to actually take a book, or take even your favorite old children's book. Bring that out. If this is your first baby, you know, then go to the store or go to the library and just remember what you love to read or be read to, or when you were a child, and get that book, bring it home, sit beside the child and, as the mom growing that baby inside of you, find your own favorites. But take a few minutes every day to do that, because your voice changes also.

Speaker 2: 3:24

The other thing the read aloud does is it changes you. You become more relaxed, you're not in a rush. It's good for you physically to just sit down on the couch, nothing much else to do. You don't have to do other things. Even I know we all love to watch shows. I'm a big TV lover. I love to watch my shows on Hulu and Netflix, but that's all at a distance and the growing baby doesn't need to hear all that. Actually, if they do, that's fine too.

Speaker 2: 3:51

But to actually have your voice reading Good Night Moon or reading when the Wild Things Are, or reading some favorite even if you're reading a recipe, anything it is your voice slows down a recipe anything it is your voice slows down, your tenor slows down, your heart rate goes down, everything changes and I'm absolutely a big, huge fan of that. And when the baby is born and we can talk about this in a minute but what is that going to do for the newborn? You know I'm going to have a lot to say about that. But right there in the womb, you're both giving that lot to say about that. But right there in the womb you're both giving that, building the brain muscles and also slowing you both down. Just take your time. This is going to go by very fast. There's lots of other things people are telling you to do. This is a really good thing to do for yourself and for that growing baby.

Speaker 1: 4:39

I love that and I was looking up some research and I was saying between 18, 25 weeks they, you know, they're hearing those sounds which I thought is just so great, right. And then you've seen it before, I've seen their studies that you can tell in the womb that like the baby is soothed by mom's voice, which you was mentioning, and that is just again. To me that is like the most you know, when I was anxious, and which was is no surprise to our listeners during pregnancies, and and which was is no surprise to our listeners during pregnancies, and I to this day wonder if sometimes my oldest has these anxieties more readily because of how anxious I was Right and it's to think if I could have been knowing I was doing something beneficial for me and him, plus for not only our literacy but like our anxiety. So this people don't correlate the benefits of mental health and reading.

Speaker 1: 5:25

And I think that's such a big component, and if people get poo-pooed off it and you have social media distracting us, tv right. We have the world and it was showing. Like I was reading too, about how TV. We mentioned screens, which I mean we all love our shows, right, but like our attention span is being lessened by our like TV, but reading actually lengthens our attention span.

Speaker 2: 5:50

It totally does. And when you're, you know, sitting there comfortably and you're doing that read aloud and this tenor of your voice, as you said, the baby is developing that sense of hearing and they hear the sort of steady hum of that read aloud voice. That is also building that capacity too. And I really appreciate what you said about anxiety, because I think you know all of us. I faced this too in my pregnancies. I had two high-risk pregnancies and it was very anxiety provoking and part of my pregnancies was about I had this inexplicable high blood pressure. So that also, the minute you know you have it, it makes it worse because you're and I remember really just finding passages sometimes, you know, and if you think about what makes you feel more calm, even spiritually, things that you like to read.

Speaker 2: 6:39

There are people that I really enjoyed as just before I got pregnant reading, and so I did just say I'm going to do this aloud because I'm here with my baby, I know it's going to be fine, I'm going to just know it's going to be fine.

Speaker 2: 6:52

But I needed for myself, my own health, to like just calm down.

Speaker 2: 6:57

Every time before I went to the doctor to get my blood pressure checked, I would just sit there and just take a minute for my read aloud and I think you know there's a form of a kind of a, and you know this better than you know anybody leading this wonderful work that you do. But I do think, starting from the minute we get pregnant, we're immediately focused on what is good for the baby and not really about what's good for us, even though we're inextricably linked together and that issue of anxiety, you know being abated by just taking that time for just me and that growing baby in there, to be together and to be together around, even if the baby doesn't know what it is yet. A story, our first stories together, you know. Or those first meditations together, those first just beautiful, you know, reading, whatever it is that actually makes you feel good. That means you're not rushing to go to the store or dashing around to try to clean the house or get to a meeting, or you should take this time.

Speaker 1: 7:54

I love it. I was thinking when you're saying humming. So humming is actually a cognitive behavioral therapy technique that we teach my premium moms is, if you're feeling really anxious, it's a way to kind of reset your vagal nervous system. So the hum of hearing that as the baby and you changing your voice, it is a grounding technique that you know. It's like it's I'm putting two and two together in my mind as we're talking about them like there's so much power. And then, like you said, that rest and pause to cause and be still is a way to fight anxiety.

Speaker 1: 8:23

And if anybody's ever suffered with intrusive thoughts or just racing thoughts that you know, you kind of loop in your head like, oh my gosh, my blood pressure is going to be high today and then this is what's going to happen. Then what's? The baby's not okay, I'm not okay and we spiral. When you're reading out loud, it's very difficult to have those scary repeating thoughts because you are reading with the words. So it's a way to stop that negativity, which is again so simple but so powerful and it's a routine. And I love too that you can pause and breathe, and it is meditation too with it.

Speaker 1: 8:57

So I highly recommend it, something I wish I would have done is start reading out loud to my babies when they're in the womb and then let's now talk about the babies here. Little bundle of joys here, and we know it can be very much, a lot challenging. And you're like okay, now you're telling me I'm feeding every hour, I'm changing a diaper. Now I've got to fit in three books and it kind of feels like X, y, z, what really matters. You know, I always say moms are so hyper-educational, they want to be the good mom, you want to do what's best. What does that look like? And they're like Pam, does that really matter?

Speaker 2: 9:35

Well, you know what I, Well, you know what I'm going to say. It does matter, but I want you to feel like you can do it in your way, like there's nothing that can be wrong about this, like there's no certain time of day, there's no read aloud with us. And, first of all, a read aloud again can be anything that is meaningful to you, not just a children's book or a picture book, but anything that is reassuring to you and meditative for you, is good for the baby too. And again, the tone and tenor of your voice does change, which is one of the things that we talk a lot about on World Read Aloud Day is just try that out, you know, try having a read aloud experience, because some of us, you know, being new moms, dads, grandparents, haven't read aloud in a long time. So you can feel, don't worry about it, you don't have to get every word perfect, you don't have to be like on stage. It's an intimate experience between you and your baby. And even if, like I was saying, the book or whatever you've chosen to read a poem or anything, a sports article it can be that too, you love reading about football. Read that to the baby. I was sitting there holding the baby. You could do that.

Speaker 2: 10:54

I think the thing is that nothing is wrong, everything is right, and if it makes you feel good, it's also going to make the baby feel good. So to choose something and to you can, whether it's going on Amazon or going to the library or just asking a friend, you know, give me like the names of three great read aloud books, like the books you loved to read right from the beginning, and I actually also I wrote a book called what to Read when the books and stories to read to your child and all the best times to read them. And I have a lot of really good recommendations for the baby, that baby period and something really interesting that happens that I know a lot of you have seen. But the baby starts to. Their eyesight starts to get better and better, and so as we progress during this infant stage, babies start to really tune into both the black and white books, which should come first.

Speaker 2: 11:45

Those are really good for them to look at and you can make up stories to go with those, because most of them don't have such great stories, but also feel like you can be creative, like if it's just black and white pictures of the baby, maybe little animals.

Speaker 2: 11:59

You can just even just to make up a little story as you go along, because they're going to start tracking those images and that's really good for their brain development to do that. But even aside from that, even if they can't really see the pages of the books and you're, let's say, you're nursing or bottle feeding, you know, while you're just sitting in your comfy chair and you have a hand free, you're just kind of looking around and you're on your phone and even if it's in the middle of the night, you know, take your phone and go to. There's lots and lots of books actually available, even just online for free. Lots of children's books there and even excerpts of them on Amazon that are just fine to like, pop up and take a look at, because the baby's not going to be judging you for doing things out of order. That's the beauty of it.

Speaker 2: 12:44

And you're almost think about yourself too. As you know, it's that middle of the night, nursing, bottle feeding period where you're like a little bit almost dozing yourself and you want to kind of keep yourself alert. It's a great time to do that, or it's first thing in the morning and you're just. You know the day is going by a little slowly and you'd rather do something intimate with your baby. But they're tiny and there's not a lot you can do. Great idea to just take two minutes to do a quick little read aloud, because they really can hear you and they really are absorbing their environment and that also watching and starting to be able to see your expression.

Speaker 2: 13:23

So the happiness that you, when you look at a funny picture because adults do it too you know our, you know our daughter and son in law have a two and a half year old and a newborn, like the sort of way that they so create, you know they're so excited and so happy and so when they're around books that's already transmitting to their children and I think, even if that's not something you personally felt growing up, is what I always say to parents is I'm never going to judge that Never. And if you never had that if that never felt good to you. This is your chance to experience that because they're like your best audience. They're never going to judge you. They think you're a genius. No matter what you do, you can't get anything wrong. They're not going to grade you. So this is your chance to actually a little bit practice when they're infants, because by the time they're two and three you will want to be doing a lot of that. It is really good for them academically and socially and all of that. We can talk about that anytime you want.

Speaker 2: 14:23

But the infant stage is both in terms of eyes tracking on that black and white, those little black and white books, also the infant when, if you're giving a bath to the infant, let's say with your spouse, and your spouse is kind of just helping out, not doing that much. There's lots of great bath, little bath books. It's great for their stimulation and having them associate the bath with a really nice positive experience. So it's not all about the water and it's not all about the shampoo, but it's a little bit also about this cute little waterproof book. So there's a lot of resources and the main thing I want to say is don't ever think you're doing this wrong? There is no way just exposure.

Speaker 1: 15:04

And you know I, we made it part of a little routine. I remember with my boys I did a little book before their naps and you know, when they're little you do a zillion naps a day. You know, and it, you know it was and it was, but it was into this day of my youngest, especially some of those books. It's still his favorite books, from that zero to one and now he's three and a half. So I always find it neat and I'm like do you? You know, I'm like gosh, does he? Does it resonate? And it probably does feel good and it feels good to me a little bit too. But to your point, you know, now I have a six-year-old. They are critical of how you read a book. So get all your practice when they are infants and they know when you skip a page when they're six versus when they're three months where they don't care.

Speaker 1: 15:48

But and I think too it is. You know you hear all this of like, exposure of words, and does it matter? And you've been an educator and advocate and you are so well versed in this. Speak to the moms who are like okay, so does it matter for them to hear all these words? Won't they hear it somewhere else? Or like or to the mom who's like oh my gosh, I must read every single word because I have to. I've read if you know they will be academically advanced Like where's that balance?

Speaker 2: 16:15

Oh yeah, so I'm very glad you brought that up. I mean they yes, in terms of what happens when you read aloud to them is the exposure to vocabulary itself and new words, unusual words, even combinations of words that are unusual, is highly influential for them. Their brains are super open. It's like you're just, you know, it's like pouring, you know, the most beautiful clear water into a goblet. That's what it feels like. It's like the most hydrating thing that you can do. Obviously, they're not understanding those words, but it is early immersion into language. It's like the most hydrating thing that you can do. Obviously, they're not understanding those words, but it is early immersion into language. It's like the most maybe, from my opinion, both as a literacy educator and just as a mom and now as a grandmom, is like the miracle of language is profound. It's literally profound. It's scientific in a number of ways that I've studied at length and have published data on, but it's also there's a miracle side to it too, that as much as we've examined and all the academics in the world have, is that, yes, when you provide oral language stimulation to your infant, and then your toddler and then your early learner, this is money in the bank. Money in the bank, the more when you go to the supermarket and you're sort of orally walking them through. What do you see? What are we seeing here and what we're wondering about. All of that is great because that is money in the bank. But in our very own home, using the read aloud as an opportunity to provide that water into the goblet is unparalleled.

Speaker 2: 17:56

And the thing I'll say about children's books that is really interesting and maybe a little bit underappreciated is that people who write the most famous children's books are among the most brilliant writers in the world. They are't easy to do. If anybody sat down and tried to write a children's book, you'll see it's much harder than you think. They're always 26 pages, there's a lot of parameters around them and it's really hard to do. So these writers are thinking about. They're choosing every word very specifically and carefully. They're intentional in their language. So when you read a book, I'm just thinking. Off the top of my head.

Speaker 2: 18:32

There's a book called Owl Moon by Jane Yolen and it's a very beautiful story about an adult taking a child on a walk in the evening to look for owls in the trees. And I mean even a word like owl and even a word like moon. Those are way beyond what an infant can understand, or even a toddler, for that matter. They might never have seen an owl before in their lives. But look what you've done.

Speaker 2: 18:54

You've connected that sort of visual with all that vocabulary and then to your point, like some of that vocabulary you might not even know, because that children's book writer is intentionally putting very complex language into those books. They don't mean for that child to have to read that book themselves, but what they do mean for is for that child to be exposed to very complex vocabulary that you wouldn't be using. Like I wouldn't just be in out of the blue saying to Gus like let's talk about owls. But when I look with him at Owl Moon, it's like suddenly it becomes a whole world of language and vocabulary that's pouring into his brain. And the thing is also that what you said like when yes, when they're six, they know when you skip a page.

Speaker 2: 19:37

But like for Gus, who's two and a half, yesterday we were reading one of his favorite books, one of the books I've read to him since he was an infant, and after three pages he closed it and he said he calls me Lala. He closed it. He was like we did it, lala. We did it Like that was it because he was ready to do something else, and there is no way that I'm going to criticize that. Like we did, it is enough, you know. And so he loves that book because it is one of those books, but at the same time that was what he had time for, you know. So then I loved how he saw success in that. So I'm a hundred percent like with the issue of vocabulary. You don't need to know every word you're reading and also, if you feel like you can't pronounce it, either pronounce it wrong, just give it a go or just skip it, because that baby isn't going to know.

Speaker 1: 20:22

Yeah, no, I love that and I love how you said it's money in the bank, like it's this, things that we can do and again it's connecting. It's good for us and because it is hard and it is to your point, it can be so lonely and isolating in motherhood sometimes. And to read a story, to engage with a story, I always say you know, sometimes if you're worrying or if you have a problem, the best sometimes way is to get your mind off of that, right, and how's the way to get immersed into a little story with your child and it's bonding. You know there's nothing unless you've experienced it Like you giggle and your child giggles or like you both kind of like, oh, that's silly, you know, and that oxytocin and that bonding and that routine, you know I always tell moms find a routine.

Speaker 1: 21:07

The days can feel like Groundhog Day over and over and over again, and you're just like I was here at 2 am, now I'm 2 pm doing the same thing. But to have a little bit of that joy it's finding, you know we call them like glimmers, it's like little sparkles of your day that you can say, okay, that you know where we started this series of books and to your point. They know. I mean you can read Harry Potter to them and that's taught you know and you love it and follow along with it. So I think the mindset has been have to do this, like it's going to be like these kids books. You know, like you said, the black ones, there's nothing much to that and you're just like oh, here's a triangle.

Speaker 2: 21:44

You know, you're just like.

Speaker 1: 21:45

I want. This is making me crazy, so I love the approach of it's a partnership. Like I said, we did it Like that's how, like you should look at this.

Speaker 2: 21:55

Exactly, it's a partnership. I love that so much. And I'm loving what you're saying about the glimmers, because to me that is another purpose for the read aloud in the experience that you have with that baby, and the bonding, sort of practicing bonding too, because this is a new human in your life, like this is a new human. You're just getting to know each other in a whole new way. And the thing that is, even if the child later doesn't remember those early moments with those particular books, that sort of early memories that you're building, that you're building, that you're saying I love you, because there's no better way really, except for, obviously, like a hug and a kiss and an affirmation, all of that, yes, but giving a read aloud to a baby is just there's love emanating from every core of your being. And something I'll say too about what you said about the rituals in those days that can go on endlessly, especially if you're home alone, like you're not even with anyone except for your baby, that's a long, long, long day. And if you can say you know, in this time we're going to structure a little bit, even if it's beginning the morning and ending the evening with a read aloud, or let's have a midday read aloud, when the baby's sort of not sleeping but not really ready for the next feeding. You know those moments, oh my gosh, I mean what a great opportunity. Or even when you put the baby on his back, you know, to look up at the mobile great opportunity just to take out one of the books you probably perhaps got before the baby was born, or maybe someone gave you as a gift, or maybe your own parent brought out of a box from the basement saying you read these when you were little, even just to show them, hold them up and say, like you know, I can't wait to read these with you, even if they don't understand that. Like you're just, you're just a love machine, you know, and and it does, it does create structure in the day, which I think is hugely important.

Speaker 2: 23:48

And then the other thing I'll say is just one last thing about that is whether we realize it or not is how we are role models right from the beginning and whether or not the baby can process or absorb everything. There's something that happens cognitively where they're like this thing about you holding up the book, like Gus does that now he, you know, he goes to daycare. And the teacher these loving teachers. You know they do a lot of read alouds and so now he comes home and he shows us like he turns the book out, like he's doing just what they do. And he's two and a half, you know he's already turning that book outward and as if he's reading aloud to a whole little group, he sets up his stuffed animals and then he does that read aloud.

Speaker 2: 24:27

And to me, as I say to my daughter and my son-in-law, to me I can tell you right now that shows me how amazing that school is, because those teachers are valuing that. They're the role models and we can do the very same at home and even just to sit and watch him while he does that and understand he's valuing that. And for the infant they're not registering anything there. They can't say I love it, thank you so much. But believe me, that is all going in their unconscious mind.

Speaker 1: 24:57

What do you say? You know, because it can happen at different ages. I was thinking about this and you know you have that sweet spot. I'd say zero to I don't know six, seven months, right, then eight to 12 months is just so rapid development, and that is I mean. I think I've read it's like 80% of the brain is developed by like three or something like that. It's crazy. They're a sponge, right, but they get busy and I think some moms are like that's great, pam, sarah, like when I can hold them and they would sit still right. Now they're on the little move, they're a little crawler. Some are walking. My youngest, you know, decided to run at 10 months. It was a whole thing Engaging literacy. When now they're on the move and still, you know, your pause moments aren't really pause moments anymore. Right, how do we work through kind of that stage?

Speaker 2: 25:43

So that's an amazingly important question because, again, as you said, everything goes so fast just almost can't believe it. And then suddenly, like you said, they're on the move, they're busy that's the best word for toddler, you know or the early past infant stage. And for me, what I, you know, what I suggest, what I recommend and what I do myself is I want to be there where the child is. So when you, you know, we think about what are we reading at this age? So, for example, like right now, we're building a lot of puzzles and Playmobil sets and Legos and things like that, duplos. And what I'll say to Gus is let's read the box, let's read the box. We'll bring the box over to where we're building and I say, like Gus, let's read the box together to see what we're going to build and what's on the box. There isn't a lot of print. They're showing you what they want, giving you an idea of what could be built. And so he will already say to me now, let's read the box, lala, let's read the box. So that's a different kind of an experience than when we build it. I'll say, let's make up a story to go with this, what we just built, let's tell that story. Let's tell that story. So it's a little less of a read aloud and a little more of an interactive experience. And then the other thing is we'll bring books over into the play. So I might say we have these little book sets that we love, that we bring over into our play. So we have this little. We call it the mouse house. So we have a little mouse house and we bring I'll say, let's read aloud to the mice, I'll do it first, and if you want to, you can too and we'll bring those little books over right in. We'll lie on the floor and bring the book into the play. So the same is true.

Speaker 2: 27:18

I talk a lot about the bath, because I do think it's A they're like contained for a minute, and B sometimes they're a little anxious in the bath. So I, like, I do feel that books really help with that also. So that's a time when everyone kind of gets a little calm. You could, you know, maybe there's a little music on, you've got the bubbles, whatever it is. That feels good. That's another great time.

Speaker 2: 27:39

The books now don't have to be books that go into the water. You can actually bring a book and just always do a read aloud while they're taking a bath. The other time they're fully constrained is when they're in their high chair, and that so you're getting ready to feed them. You know you might have another baby that you're holding at the same time. Whatever it is, you're getting them ready to eat, and you might have to help them do that. But also, you can say, right before the food comes out, or right after, when they're done but not yet totally ready to leave the chair, you could do a very quick read aloud. There, too, you could bring back a familiar one, or you could actually start looking for books.

Speaker 2: 28:12

We have some good recommendations in what to read when about food, so you kind of connect. Whatever the theme is a bath book, a food book? There's a lot of great, great titles that authors have created for situational experiences, but I'm a big believer in go where the child is. So playtime, bath time, feeding time. You have to do those things, or you know those things are happening one way or another. Bring the book with you there, you don't have to be on the couch it.

Speaker 2: 28:42

I do think, though, the right before bed read aloud is a really good ritual, because I think, mentally, cognitively, it tones down the brain, brings them back to a quieter place. If it's a familiar book, even better, because they can. Ok, I know how this goes, I know how it ends. It's not going to restimulate them and they've been playing and running and going to the playground and seeing a friend or grandma or somebody all day. That's a lot going on. It's also as they're starting to talk.

Speaker 2: 29:11

It's a great moment, if you're reading a little book about friendship, to say you know, who did you play with today at your school or daycare or with the babysitter? Or you know, mama and you and me, we went to the playground together today. You know, mama and you and me, we went to the playground together today. So it's a great books are a great scaffold to actually start engaging in conversation with your very young child, your early toddlers, to say we went to the playground today too. You know that's it. But then, oh, that's, you know. I see a picture that's connecting to me. But I think that whole idea of go where they are for the read aloud, it's not going to feel like it did when they were immobile.

Speaker 1: 29:48

And that's, I think, is expectations right. And I think we set ourselves up a lot of times and you know, full transparency. There are some days that story time is chaotic in our home. There was there's sometimes. It is amazing and we love it and we pull out. We love dragons, love tacos in our family, you know, and it's just.

Speaker 1: 30:05

I think the biggest thing I wish I would have done and I say this and I hope our listeners is to realize again, it's as much for you as it is for them and you are always going to benefit and the child's going to benefit from it. It's a win-win. We love win-wins. And again, the connection between mental health for you and baby with reading is so understated and it's not expensive and, like you know, we have a little book of affirmations that's tied with biblical verses that we read together and then we say it out and then again we're wiring our brains, we're stopping those loops that we all get on, we're stopping the anxious, we're pausing Bodies are still and in this day and age, to take a minute and kind of get engulfed in a little story together, we can all use that little break of life.

Speaker 2: 30:57

We really can, and even like, like I said, you know, if the if you notice that your baby or toddler is a little bit like finished with that, like the way Gus said, we did it, just stop, you don't have to, nobody cares, and I love your idea, just that I can just picture you. You know, reading affirmations. I like, love that so much because I think that, again, what are we carrying through? That message is this is what we do, this is modeling our lived lives.

Speaker 2: 31:26

And also there's something about when authors, they're writing their pieces, whether it's affirmations or poems or songs. You know the wheels on the bus. There's a million books that have been written just using that song. But they will all do a little bit differently in terms of where, like, the pauses are, where the pages get turned, or where the pictures are, where the white space is, and I think it makes you read like that, so you read a little more rhythmically, or you read a little more quietly, or like, let's say, one page only has on it three words, you know, or maybe more, but something like, and then they went to sleep, you know, it kind of quiets everything down and the author is giving you the guidance to say you can go slow, you know you don't have to go fast, and I think that to your point.

Speaker 2: 32:16

I do think parenting is huge. It's a constant learning and a constant opportunity to either be kind of frustrated with ourselves and say I'm not doing it right, or to actually affirm ourselves and say, oh, this moment, that glimmer that I just had, that's really what it's all about, you know, and I think books can really help with that. A lot.

Speaker 1: 32:39

Well, pam, I obsessed always with you and what you're doing and what you're flipping and I'm going to make sure I link the what to win where and all your for our show notes. And we challenge all our listeners for to read something out loud, not just on this day this week, you know to make it a part of it, and it simply can be reading something in the grocery store. It can be reading a million notes.

Speaker 1: 33:04

We all get sent home from our schools to say this is what it is, but read an email out loud, I mean it doesn't have to be complicated, but I again I thank you and you are just really a voice to these parents who want to do the right thing. And it's so overwhelming and at times ridiculous of what's expected, but you break it down for us so we appreciate you, as always.

Speaker 2: 33:30

Well, thank you so much. I appreciate you and also I appreciate all these amazing parents who are out there who are thinking so intentionally about your kids and your babies and your toddlers that you're like doing something so good for the world by nurturing them and caring for them, so much that you're listening and following what you're doing on your amazing organization. So, thanks to everyone listening.

Speaker 1: 33:53

Thank you, Pam. All right listeners, we'll be back next week, Thank you.

Speaker 3: 33:59

Maternal mental health is as important as physical health. The Preview Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables, like anxiety, anger and even apathy. Hosted by CEO founder Sarah Parkhurst and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay, each episode focuses on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum. Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges, as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms. You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time. Please know you're not alone on this journey. We're here to help.