Speaker 1: 0:10

hey guys, welcome back to Prevalence Podcast. This is Sarah and I'm with our favorite therapist, whitney. Welcome Whitney, great friends. So Whitney, today's topic. We have talked about anger and rage in postpartum, but we have recently got some questions about anger and rage in pregnancy.

Speaker 2: 0:30

Right. So there's a lot of reasons this happens. One, you know if it was an unplanned pregnancy, so you have kind of that shock or that surprise factor going on and you know, with that can even be some grief and we all know like kind of a subset of grief, or a symptom of grief, if you will, is anger, frustration, irritability, that lack of control feeling. So there could be some of that at play. Just again, that grief process that someone could be experiencing.

Speaker 2: 1:01

Hormones we cannot ignore that. And while I'm not the biggest fan of blaming everything on your hormones because I feel like that gets scapegoated quite a bit or women get gaslit with that sometimes we can't ignore like that rapid increase of progesterone and estrogen being hard for us to manage. Yeah, they talk about like crying over the cat food commercial when you're pregnant. How could that be any different than like you stub your toe and all of a sudden you're screaming and cussing and you're like that's not me, it's kind of the same thing. Those hormones are just at a much higher rate than what we are used to them being normally.

Speaker 1: 1:39

You're right, right. The typical thing is like, well, you cry more or it's more sensitive, but it's like you are physically changing so much to physical discomfort. I remember, especially in the third trimester towards the end, physically to walk, to get up if you're chasing another child or if you're demanding a job, or even in the first trimester, right, where you can be so sick, so fatigued, you just there's nothing, like it's the still scary game of like what's going on and you haven't maybe had an ultrasound yet or you've, you know, you've had a loss before, you've got a lot of things going on, and then it is kind of sometimes like the straw that breaks the camel's back. I guess it's like I'm throwing up, I'm miserable.

Speaker 1: 2:19

And then X happens and then I yell or I throw something, or. I've said this before. I remember in postpartum like my rage, remember one time it just was like a flood of emotions hit me Actually not proud of this, but I'm full transparency. He took a remote, chucked it against the wall and it was not a situation that would be equal to that reaction.

Speaker 2: 2:42

Right, the reaction was an overreaction to the situation.

Speaker 1: 2:47

Yeah, and I explain to people. I'm like exactly what we said earlier. I was like whoa scared me, shamed me, guilted me, what's wrong with me? And I think people don't talk about being angry in pregnancy or postpartum because we're again. Society tells us we are supposed to be blessed, we're supposed to be joyful, we're supposed to do it all. We're the superheroes, yeah, so what other things about anger do you see? You know, I think it's pregnancy, postpartum, raising children right that anger presents in different ways for different people, right?

Speaker 1: 3:23

so some people suppress anger and some people are burst.

Speaker 2: 3:27

So as far as like seeing the anger or feeling the anger, like you said, we're going to see some of those outbursts and it could be just like a hairpin trigger. All of a sudden someone is yelling or they throw something or they stomp or they're huffing and they're puffing. You see the outward symptoms of that. But then you look at somebody who might be irritated that their husband didn't load the dishwasher or you know there was an inconvenience, things of that nature, and they keep it in and what we see with that is resentment and bitterness and at some point it has to come out. You know we talk about our body storing trauma, things of that nature.

Speaker 2: 4:06

If you're not actually processing that like you might end up with like stomach troubles or headaches, neck tension, really stiff muscles, things like that. So when you notice, oh, I'm a little angry with my spouse and you don't know why, might be because little inconveniences have built up, up, up, up up, and then they say, oh, I don't really want to do tacos tonight. Why don't we do Chick-fil-A instead? And you wanted those tacos. You have been thinking about them all day and them having a different opinion set you off because you feel dismissed and all of these other things. But it's because that bitterness and resentment has just built up and then we might see some sarcasm or some snippiness. That's where we see some other outwardness of it.

Speaker 1: 4:52

You know anger in general right, and I think anger and yelling and outbursts is very tied to people with their triggers of if they've experienced physical, sexual abuse, if they've been verbally abused you know so for them to then may experience that, or be that person who's now getting or throw something or be like I can't do this anymore. Or you know you say something you shouldn't have said to someone, or you're driving in the car, someone going slow and you find yourself just maybe get out of my way. I think you do start going down a pathway where you don't want to share, and I think that's the whole goal of a lot of our conversations is transparency, bringing awareness. And what's the next step if I am experiencing this?

Speaker 2: 5:37

Correct. Yeah. So the next step would be figuring out how can I let these things out without it being explosive. So again, me personally, I do better with saying stuff out loud voice journaling. That's going to be great, because you actually feel like you're physically getting it out of your body and then you can delete it. If you need to write it out, that is perfectly fine too. If you feel like that irritability, frustration, anger towards a specific person, writing a letter that you may or may not give them, but getting those things out that way when you do need to address something, it's not explosive.

Speaker 1: 6:14

Yeah, and I think I'm hearing moms because I've said it to myself too it's like I don't have. You know, whitney, I would love to have time to sit down. I can't even think two sentences. I feel like, or you know, I think I'm just really overwhelmed, or, you know, I'm so sick in this pregnancy or my body. You know, I'm on bed rest and I feel this resentment. You know there's a lot of things that we can control versus not control, and we've talked about that before. You know there's a lot of things that we can control versus not control, and we talked about that before.

Speaker 3: 6:44

And I think really to anger, is it's?

Speaker 1: 6:45

never really that person that's slow driving, right? It's not the tacos versus Chick-fil-A, right? It's diving deep and pregnancy. We always say this is like suitcases of stuff we bring in, Right?

Speaker 2: 6:56

Absolutely Same thing with motherhood, where you know our child may do a behavior and we feel so triggered by it. Well, chances are that's because as a child, we were not allowed to express ourselves in that way or we were reprimanded for that, so we feel the need to do the same Right.

Speaker 1: 7:13

So much of our history plays a role in that too in that too, and then in the moment so let's say someone's going okay, that's me, or I recognize that I'm experiencing more short-temperedness, or I'm quick to kind of snap back or hit that horn a little too much Right In that immediate moment do you help clients. What do you coach through? If that stop pause, or is it counting? What is some tools that they can start putting in their toolbox here?

Speaker 2: 7:43

So if it's one of those again you're having your day and you stub your toe and you're just oh, or you're screaming or whatever. That's when you say and I always tell people exhale first through your mouth, empty your lungs, get that out and say, okay, I'm frustrated, this hurts, I'm inconvenienced. This is just my last straw, because I maybe didn't sleep well the night before, because we know sleep deprivation plays a role in our moods, or it was really hard to get out the door this morning, or I was late to work because I got stuck by a train or whatever. Say the things out loud that are bothering you, if you can, and say but it's okay, frustration is not a bad thing, it just feels uncomfortable. So, calling it for what it is.

Speaker 2: 8:29

So get that, exhale out. Do some deep breaths if you need to. The next step would be can you get a wet paper towel, or can you get to a sink or get something cold? Splash that on the back of your neck, splash that on your face, whatever you need to do If that's not accessible to you, do you have sanitizer lotion, a candle, something like that, near you? You can breathe that in and start working on some of those tactile grounding skills that we mentioned.

Speaker 1: 8:57

I love that. You know I was thinking back and it's like, even walking, I think, something simple as taking a pause. Now, granted, if you're a small kid around, you're at your job, but if it is a situation where you feel it coming up, or I can tell sometimes, even if I have anxiety in my body just a two minute walk, there's something about that movement, right, so helpful to me and to remove yourself out of that space. You know, if it is the kids and your guys, it's just one of those days where nobody can be happy. We all have those days as moms, you know.

Speaker 1: 9:29

They always say that. You know you get them outside or you get them in water, right. So it's like you take a bath, you take a shower or you get outside. And for me I've I've noticed too like a lot of irritability, the anger. It gets better if I have a regular, if it's walk, or like weights. Whitney's a runner, we all know whitney, right, and maybe we'll never be running marathons together, but I cheer her on. It is the. I think that like sometimes it you know you have to lift something up or do it to get your nervous system almost reset.

Speaker 2: 10:07

I was just thinking that, like, if you do water outside, it's the reset. Yeah, in sunlight sometimes we need some sun and it's like it goes, basic too.

Speaker 1: 10:17

It's like have you ate today, have you drank water today or have we chugged 10 coffees? And you know, what do you need today? Yeah, yeah, those little irritabilities that you know, I think. Yeah, pregnancy it probably started where you never really think about it, I think, until the hormones are happening and maybe there's this great condition need. But, like you know, have you ever had those days? You're gosh, my hair just needs to get up. It's like weighing on me.

Speaker 1: 10:43

That sensory overload. Yeah, and I think that comes into play because now you know smells probably bother you more if you're pregnant. Right, your discomfort. You're now planning for a new person that you're going to be responsible for. And again, who does that?

Speaker 2: 10:56

responsibility fall on, responsible for? And again, who does that responsibility fall on the moms. Because moms they prepare for pregnancy and pregnant it's you know, don't eat this, don't drink this, make sure this is in moderation, make sure you do this. So it's a whole lot of demands for us, physically and mentally, to do that. Well, then comes the newborn stage. Who, more often than not, is the one looking into, like the developmental milestones, how often is my baby supposed to be changed and fed, and all of these different things Like? Who, more often than not, is the one looking into, like the developmental milestones, how often is my baby supposed to be changed and fed, and all of these different things Like how long did they sleep for that nap? Did they even nap?

Speaker 1: 11:28

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:29

Things like that. Have you been able to put your baby down without them screaming?

Speaker 1: 11:33

And I think that's too. It's very important in pregnancy that if you are starting to see the signs of anger or anxiety or depression, you get ahead of it. And that is our biggest thing is 50% of postpartum depression anxiety actually starts during pregnancy. So these are the conversations. It's not shame and it's very common. But just because it's common doesn't mean that we should just accept it right.

Speaker 1: 12:01

You're supposed to struggle without help, Right? That is where I think it gets lost. In transition it's like, well, I did it and I struggled. But look at me now, but it's like I don't want you to struggle.

Speaker 2: 12:12

You don't have to this way, we don't have to be miserable.

Speaker 1: 12:16

No. So it is shameful, though, to admit. I mean, when I chucked that remote control, I was just like have I become a monster, you know? And I think my husband's face was like are we ever coming back from this, you know? But it's one of those things that it is hard to say, I feel. You know and I learned, you've taught me this. So one of the parts of depression is anger. Oh, absolutely yes. And so people might be like well, I never thought depression and anger go together. How does that work?

Speaker 2: 12:48

Well, as far as depression and anger going together, more often than not, if someone is struggling with depression, they also experience a lot of feelings of loss of control, which can make you feel sad. But at the same time, there's anger because, well, why can't I control this? Why was that control taken away from me? You know, there's maybe some feelings of unjustness going on. It doesn't feel fair, it doesn't feel just. Why do I have to deal with this? So with that sadness of I don't have X, y and Z that I want. Well, now I'm mad because life took it away from me, yeah, or life threw on all of these extra responsibilities on me and I was just trying to get my head above water.

Speaker 1: 13:30

And I think too, you really do feel I mean pregnancy and delivery of the child right, that's on the mom, that's on you. No one can, no one could take that away, the responsibilities or the physicality of it or just the heaviness of emotions. And you do sometimes see everybody living their lives and you're just going on and it can feel lonely, it can feel isolating, and it does. You know, day after day can be hard and I definitely have been there and experienced that. But still being grateful, I get that this always comes in. Two things can be true at the same time.

Speaker 2: 14:05

Right.

Speaker 1: 14:06

Absolutely. I want this baby, I'm excited this baby, but this is super hard and today you know this was the thing that caused the anger and I actually looked up it. It's not really well studied, which it's not a shock when it comes to moms, mental health, pregnancy, postpartum, trying to get pregnant, but they do say that about 24 to 31% of pregnant postpartum moms will experience the anger and rage. And what they were stating to as well is that anger outbursts and we're not saying one time, we're saying, you know, kind of consistent angrily outbursts have led to it's rare but placental abruption. So there is consequences that come through it.

Speaker 1: 14:48

They said outward anger and inward anger, so kind of that outburst like I'm getting out, I'm yelling, I'm throwing, versus inward, I'm holding it in, I'm getting bitter, like I feel that inside of me, just like story that has been shown with research to have growth delays in the baby and disorganized sleep patterns. Interesting, yes, because several of the research that I was studying on this was saying but I'm just like you know. So if we know these have these negative outcomes, why aren't we talking about being angry and when it gets to a point and what moms can do and how we can talk about it? And that was an N-word now talking about again. The N-word is associated with cardiovascular morbidity in general in society and that is something women in general they're finding out too. If it's postpartum depression, anxiety, maternal mental health complications. If we've experienced that later on in our lives, we are at greater risk for cardiovascular disease.

Speaker 2: 15:48

I can see that, and also our hormones play such a big role in that too. Because they talk about how often women, once they're in menopause, that their risk of heart disease or heart complications increases because of the drop in estrogen.

Speaker 1: 16:01

Yep, so it is crucial that I think, if we're knowing these complications, let alone is we don't want people to be going through this alone, not having help. So we've went through the tips, but when would you say to a client, this is the time to seek professional help? But that's therapist, or that's a psychiatrist, or talking to OB.

Speaker 2: 16:33

What is kind of that situation that would be kind of for you saying, all right, it's time, I would say, if you are starting to observe inward or outward anger more than twice a week without there being an external factor that you can say, that's why I was angry. So if I'm driving home and someone is texting and driving and they hit me, I'm probably going to be angry. Right, I have an external reason for that. So me being angry over a car accident because someone was negligent, that would be appropriate. Now, if someone you know just barely dings their car door against mine, should I be screaming at the top of my lungs at them? No, I'm talking about that overreaction. That is not appropriate for what has actually happened.

Speaker 1: 17:11

Just like snapping that growl, that yelling, that it's a flood and that's I've experienced and that's only, and it's just. It's one of those things you're like I would feel that way yeah, and it happens and you're going. You may have never had that before in your life Right, exactly.

Speaker 2: 17:25

This may be brand new to you, and so you're standing there like this is not who I am. I don't like this at all.

Speaker 1: 17:33

Yeah, and it is. And so, again, just transparency of this will, and we have seen in my own life, I've seen it in many women's lives and so, as Whitney, so it's one of those things you can't sometimes wish away and we need help and to talk about it. So, again, with this information, if you guys are looking for a therapist, we always say psychology today is a great place to start. You can click maternal mental health to see who's specialized in postpartum support, international, you know, and just being open and honest to the ones who are in your support system, to your friends, and if you're going, okay, well, what else? Because we have a lot of new listeners, what else is maternal mental health? You can always go back to our episodes and search. We have covered a big spectrum from postpartum depression, anxiety to psychosis, intrusive thoughts. So always, we appreciate you guys tuning in, listening and sharing and we will be back with you guys next week.

Speaker 3: 18:28

See you guys. Maternal mental health is as important as physical health. The Preview Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables, like anxiety, anger and even apathy. Hosted by CEO founder Sarah Parkhurst and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay, each episode focused on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum. Thank you,