Previa Alliance Podcast
There are few experiences as universal to human existence as pregnancy and childbirth, and yet its most difficult parts — perinatal mood and anxiety disorders (PMADs) — are still dealt with in the shadows, shrouded in stigma. The fact is 1 in 5 new and expecting birthing people will experience a PMAD, yet among those who do many are afraid to talk about it, some are not even aware they’re experiencing one, and others don’t know where to turn for help. The fact is, when someone suffers from a maternal mental health disorder it affects not only them, their babies, partners, and families - it impacts our communities.
In the Previa Alliance Podcast series, Sarah Parkhurst and Whitney Gay are giving air to a vastly untapped topic by creating a space for their guests — including survivors of PMADs and healthcare professionals in maternal mental health — to share their experiences and expertise openly. And in doing so, Sarah and Whitney make it easy to dig deep and get real about the facts of perinatal mental health, fostering discussions about the raw realities of motherhood. Not only will Previa Alliance Podcast listeners walk away from each episode with a sense of belonging, they’ll also be armed with evidence-based tools for healing, coping mechanisms, and the language to identify the signs and symptoms of PMADs — the necessary first steps in a path to treatment. The Previa Alliance Podcast series is intended for anyone considering pregnancy, currently pregnant, and postpartum as well as the families and communities who support them.
Sarah Parkhurst
Previa Alliance Podcast Co-host; Founder & CEO of Previa Alliance
A postpartum depression survivor and mom to two boys, Sarah is on a mission to destigmatize the experiences of perinatal mood and anxiety disorders (PMADs), and to educate the world on the complex reality of being a mom. Sarah has been working tirelessly to bring to light the experiences of women who have not only suffered a maternal mental health crisis but who have survived it and rebuilt their lives. By empowering women to share their own experiences, by sharing expert advice and trusted resources, and by advocating for health care providers and employers to provide support for these women and their families, Sarah believes as a society we can minimize the impact of the current maternal mental health crisis, while staving off future ones.
Whitney Gay
Previa Alliance Podcast Co-host; licensed clinician and therapist
For the past ten years, Whitney has been committed to helping women heal from the trauma of a postpartum mental health crisis as well as process the grief of a miscarriage or the loss of a baby. She believes that the power of compassion paired with developing critical coping skills helps moms to heal, rebuild, and eventually thrive. In the Previa Alliance Podcast series, Whitney not only shares her professional expertise, but also her own personal experiences of motherhood and recovery from grief.
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Previa Alliance Podcast
I Know Why I Am In Therapy... But Why Is Everyone Else?
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If you are in therapy yourself you know what brought you and why. But, have you ever thought what other reasons are there to seek therapy? In this week we episode Sarah quizzes Whitney on what brings clients to see her. From life transitions, maternal mental health, or grief we guarantee you can relate.
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Welcome and Introduction
Speaker 1hey guys , welcome back to preview lion's podcast . This is sarah and I have got our favorite therapist , whitney , with me . Hey , whitney , hey guys . So whitney , we have been big fans of therapy for forever and it's a common kind of question . I think people who are new to therapy maybe been in therapy before they kind of wonder I know I'm in therapy , but why are other people in therapy ? Or if someone's never went down this road , or maybe you're thinking of a person in your life you're like they really need therapy , what are the situations that would bring people to see you ? Or maybe in your past you've had clients who have Just give us kind of the overview . So maybe this can help people feel more open and recognizing it's not just them .
Why People Seek Therapy
Speaker 2Right . So there are so many reasons people go to therapy . So this is by no means like an exhaustive list , because you may be listening and be like , well , I don't fit the criteria for any of that , but what about this over here ? So just know like I'm spitballing and throwing so much out there . Obviously , maternal mental health , which is our heart and passion here . So if you're struggling with anxiety , depression , trauma , ocds , things of that nature in your pregnancy and postpartum , that can be a reason because you want to figure out how do I cope better with these things ? Is there a route to these behaviors , things of that nature . You know therapy can help you navigate that stuff .
Speaker 2Some people have childhood traumas that they need to work through . Some people have sexual assault abuse histories and then you know you've got people with religious trauma backgrounds and so they're trying to work through all of that . You've got people who struggle with PTSD and OCD . Not , you know , maternal mental health . You know related , it can be standalone by all means Grief . That's one reason that people go to therapy . You've got people that maybe they speculate . Well , is this ADHD , is this autism spectrum disorders ? Am I type A perfectionistic Like why is my brain functioning the way that it is . So they're looking for that clarification .
Speaker 2Some people recognize that they are struggling with managing their anxiety and depression and they're trying to figure out is medication appropriate ? You know , because they may be . You know , utilizing their coping skills , they might be doing all the things but they still feel like it's just not quite enough . Well , maybe I need to go talk to someone about a medication , things of that nature . You know , if someone again if a parent loses a child , you've got trauma and grief combined right there . Or you've got someone that maybe their parent died when they were very young , you may have someone that struggles with suicidal thoughts , or they've lost someone to suicide .
Speaker 2So there are so many reasons to go to therapy and I almost forgot about this one vicarious trauma . So that , yeah , that is something that you will hear happens to people more often in helping fields . So social work , for example , healthcare teachers can also experience that . Firefighters , officers , ambulance drivers , emts , all of those things . They witness really horrific , graphic things and they absorb it . So , you know , having empathy for others very appropriate , but sometimes when we see or hear the traumas , we over empathize and we absorb that . So it's not an immediate trauma to me if I hear
Understanding Vicarious Trauma
Speaker 2about it , but it's enough that my brain is very weighed down by this .
Speaker 1Okay .
Speaker 2I mean , for an example , on myself years ago when I did foster care . I had two brothers and when I tell y'all , words cannot adequately describe the trauma that they survived . And I remember vividly many nights sitting down on the floor and just sobbing because it felt like I couldn't do enough to fix it . What was I doing wrong ? So I absorbed that . But then also realizing what a five and a seven-year-old had lived through and how widely inappropriate that was Like , how could this even happen ? So when we think about a vicarious trauma it's when we absorb kind of that ripple effect from somebody else's trauma .
Speaker 1I remember in nursing school clinicals it was our mental health rotation we had to do . I mean , I was going to say like a month , two months , and we were in the child psychiatric unit , right , and I at the time hearing the stories of why and how these children were there , and I remember I'd go home and I'd be exhausted and I'd cry and be depressed and I thought this is , you know , I can't handle this and I do think we disregard sometimes these fields of what people see and hear and witness have to help cope with . So that is a definitely great way . You know , for me therapy was for postpartum depression and I've done . You know there's different types of therapy . So then when I've had a traumatic birth , I went and saw a trauma-based therapist who did EMDR for my traumatic birth . So in you know , traumatic birth reasons , to see a therapist , you know it doesn't have to be to the point where it was with me , where we almost both , but it could be that something very traumatic or your loss of control .
Speaker 1This is not how I wanted . Miscarriage loss , loss of child Infertility is a huge reason to get into therapy Right . And then life transitions I think that is such a great spot for people to come in and work through that with a therapist Right , which people don't really think about that , but you know it's like . So you're getting married , you're moving , you're doing a job , you know you're becoming a mom , right or grief again , the loss if it's planned or you know , planned in the sense of I know it's coming there in anticipated anticipated versus sudden .
Duration and Therapy Process
Speaker 1I think that marriage counseling , couples counseling let's talk about that with me .
Speaker 2My least favorite type . Yes , not as a recipient , but as a therapist . It is my least favorite thing to do because it's a lot of he said , she said and you have to navigate where is the truth in the midst of all of this ? And sometimes it's really challenging because you can pick up on like gaslighting potential narcissism going on and you have to be real aware of how you address that Because what I address in session has the ripple effect at home Very true , I have to be very mindful of what and how I say things .
Speaker 1And I give it to you because I know our therapist , I mean my husband . I have our own marriage therapist . And before I have found myself , you know , because when it's individual therapy , right , it's just your story , right , it's your side , and then now you have the witness , the participating party , bringing their side , and I have found myself being like , well , do you remember ? And you know almost kind of like holding it against him a little bit , or maybe I'm like why ?
Speaker 1did you bring that up . That way , you know , it's good too , because there is a way to meet a common ground , there's a way for a third party right , there's always three sides of the story , right , yours , his and the truth To kind of have that clarity . I think also , you know therapy is understanding the way you think and it is a safe place as well . And I've realized to bring forth things that I , you know it's not appropriate to place on your best friends , it's not appropriate to talk to honestly , sometimes with your spouse . If you're trying to inward , do some things , you know you got to do some work and it's a safe , neutral party . And I guess another question people have says well , okay , whitney , I'm into this , how long do I stay with you ? How long are you my therapist ?
Speaker 2So you're all are probably not going to love this answer , but there's not a hard and fast rule for how long someone stays in therapy . So someone can be in therapy for a few months up to several years . So it very much depends on why someone is going to therapy and do you feel equipped for handling that situation or those emotions or coping for that . And in the midst of that , you know , I have so many people that come to me for postpartum mental health , and so we work on kind of solution focused things of okay , well , let's get our grounding skills on board , let's do tactile , let's talk about self care , let's talk about how do we stop intrusive thoughts and things of that nature . We start there because that's what's bringing them here .
Speaker 2But more often than not , people have root issues . So , whether it be a dynamic at their home , whether it be how they interact with their parents now that a baby is in the picture , maybe we've got some inner child stuff going on that we've got to dig deeper into . Maybe there's ADHD going on and they never knew that they could have had ADHD before now . And so , yes , we address the initial problem when someone comes in , but I would say 95% of the time we have a root and then we start digging at that root . So once we do that , truthfully , it can take 12 to 18 months for someone to feel like they are fully equipped and okay to either do like once every six to eight weeks therapy or that they can finally discharge . My longest standing client we just discontinued therapy a month ago . They have been with me for four years .
Speaker 1Yeah , and it's really complex , right ? Because if you've never done therapy , you know you have like 30 minutes to say , like 15 minutes of conversation , and so you're thinking your whole life story and people who are involved in this story your parents , your family , what events have occurred . You really have to tell people this too . It is what you tell them . So if I don't go , if I go into therapy and I just tell Whitney half the story , that's all Whitney knows . But if I dive deep and I'm transparent in my head , I feel like my therapist is almost just it's got like a storyboard of characters that they then have to be like okay , that was that person who that encounter happened with , with her , this is this person and it's almost like and I don't know if she does this , but it's like I feel like she characterizes them .
Speaker 2Oh , that's a narcissist , or that's the person who has dad issues in her life , or this is you know we can use that insight with the client and say , hey , I'm starting to notice some narcissistic tendencies with this person , but narcissism can also look very similar to autism . It can look very similar to low emotional IQ . It can look similar to borderline personality disorder . So that's the thing is , we can start to pick up on stuff and be like , hey , I'm starting to notice these patterns going on .
Speaker 2But , like you mentioned one very funny experience I had with a client as far as like characters and stories . One time they brought their iPad in and they said , okay , I need you to know who these people are that I'm talking about . They had a PowerPoint set up with pictures and names . When I tell you , that was one of the best sessions because we laughed together . I do have , you know , faces with names now and it was so candid and as a therapist , I was like they feel comfortable with me . Yes , and that is a goal , that's a goal of mine anyway , to make sure someone feels comfortable If you come into that office and you have an iPad with .
Speaker 1Let's make that family tree and you will understand , as my therapist , why we're having these issues . Absolutely . I love that and I think too . Just I think people are like OK , so what if I don't like my therapist ? Well , you know , it's just like any other kind of professional relationship it may not work out and it may not work out for both of you .
Speaker 1And tell our listeners because they may have started to be like okay , all therapists are Whitney , like Whitney , that's not true . So what kind of techniques or what kind of things ? Buzzwords ? I say because psychology today , which we talk about a lot , is a great place to start If they're looking . If you were to describe , if Whitney was on psychology today , describing what kind of how you practice as a therapist , what would it say ? So people can kind of have some knowledge of when they're asking a therapist
Finding the Right Therapist
Speaker 1or looking .
Speaker 2So for me , obviously like maternal mental health , pregnancy and postpartum infant loss , with that we would look at grief PTSD . I do work as far as like anxiety disorders or generalized anxiety disorder , I'm becoming more knowledgeable about OCD and ADHD . I was not as knowledgeable when I began doing this but with time we grow in those things . Inner child and internal family systems is something that I do , so that's where we're looking back at our childhood , those roots , trauma , that's there . One thing that I do because , again , I see a lot of maternal mental health is solution focused therapy .
Speaker 2So someone's coming to me in crisis . I got to get you out of crisis mode , then we can dig . But if you're coming in with panic attacks and intrusive thoughts , you may not really get anything out of inner child Right , that may not be what your goal is . So it's really actually inappropriate for me to go there . But different soapbox for another day . But you're looking at types of modalities and what you think you're struggling with . So if someone is saying you know , I don't know if I'm bipolar or what , well , bipolar and borderline personality disorder and PTSD can look a lot alike . So you may search for someone that deals with mood disorders , because bipolar is a mood disorder . You would look for someone that specializes in bipolar or borderline personality disorder , but that doesn't mean you will get that diagnosis . It's you think that that is what's going on with you ? They can help give you clarification on what could actually be taking place .
Speaker 1Yeah , and cognitive behavioral therapy we hear that you know kind of thrown in there . Essentially , what is that telling us ?
Speaker 2So cognitive behavioral therapy , you're looking at talk therapy , which most therapists do that but you're really looking at your grounding , so it's going to be very mindful base . So mindfulness is a big one that you seek with that . Where we're looking at this is the issue . This is what's going on . How am I going to pull myself into the here and now and then , when we throw in the cognitive part of that , it's OK . Well , which of these thoughts are actually a little bit like a dysmorphic thinking and we work on ?
Speaker 1why do I have that dysmorphic thinking , oh okay . And then tools . You're very a tool-driven equipping kind of therapist and so it's like to me it's important , for I like that type of therapy you're talking about I am ethically .
Speaker 1Whitney cannot be my therapist or else you know we would figure that out , but it is . You know , I want to be taught how to change something . So some and I have talked to certain therapists before where they're just you feel like you're just talking to them and you're just like , well , what do I do ? You know , it's just , but some people like to just talk and get it out and that's enough for them . So it is kind of figuring out personally . Well , what do I want ? Do I want someone to equip me ? Do I want someone to teach me coping skills ? Do I want someone to question my thinking patterns and we work together , or do we want someone who kind of sits there and lets me , let it all out ?
Speaker 2Right . So you have to figure out what your goals for therapy are . What do you want out of therapy ? Do you want someone that is going to give you some feedback or do you need someone that's just going to let you get things out ? Because those are two different things , and there are times where you know a client will say I just , I've got to get this out , I don't even need feedback , I just got to get it out , fair enough , and I will hold that space for somebody .
Speaker 2However , if there's not that clarification put in there , this is where that solution-focused therapy comes into play , where I'm like okay , well , it sounds like that's distressing to you . Have you tried X , y and Z ? So if you want someone that's going to help you kind of tackle some things almost give you like a bullet point list solution-focused or task-oriented that's a route to go . If you need someone to be there for you and just hold that space , which can be a good amount of grief therapy , that's where you would look for something that says it's talk-based okay , and then does somebody saying okay , so there's nothing really alarming me , there's nothing you I can pinpoint .
Speaker 1I'm interested in therapy and it's and they're going well . Why would that be beneficial ? You know ? And I would say to them you know , we all have risk factors of some point , that you know . And depression , anxiety is so rampant and post COVID , we've never recovered from just the heightens of it in the social media and the pressures of this world . So I think too . I mean , no one has a picture perfect family , no one has a picture perfect life , you know , and the saying is is everybody could benefit from therapy .
Speaker 2Absolutely . No one is immune from life . You can be the most mentally healthy person , and life is going to throw you a curveball At some point . We all experience trauma . We all experience trauma . So you could say in good conscience well , it's not my parents , they didn't do it to me Like we were a good , healthy family growing up . That's fine .
Speaker 2You don't have to go to therapy because of your parents . I do think that that's a misconception of well , if you're in therapy , it's because your mom yeah , maybe , maybe not and so don't think that you have to fall into that bubble of well , I'm in therapy because my parents traumatized me . That doesn't have to be what traumatizes you . Right , you can go to therapy because work is overwhelming , or maybe you're thinking of changing your career , or maybe it's infertility , or maybe your partner cheated on you , or maybe you're thinking of changing your career , or maybe it's infertility , or maybe your partner cheated on you , or maybe you're like hey , I'm 40
Therapy Approaches and Techniques
Speaker 2and all of a sudden I'm realizing , oh , I don't like what I'm doing with my life . What do I do ? Kind of a midlife crisis . We can go to therapy for a myriad of reasons , and you can start and stop therapy , too , for different reasons .
Speaker 1I think that's important too . I think people think , ok , well , I start in my locked in . It's you know and it's you're not . You can really get to a point with your therapist where you work out a plan that works for you in your life . But to have someone who has your background , that knows your inner issues essentially , I think it's really powerful . So when it does life , lives , you know , to check back in with that person and say , hey , whitney , I know we've kind of closed this chapter and we've made this great progress .
Speaker 1Now this has come up and you're not starting over every single time . You have someone in your pocket who knows you and we can go from there . So I think that's just really important that you know , even if you don't need it now to start maybe identifying people in your area or what your insurance covers or if your insurance don't pay for it , you know what . Is there a sliding scale , is there a cash payment ? And just kind of just having knowledge and being aware . You know it's like we really don't want to break a bone and then going wait , where's the ER ? You know , you kind of just need to know where these places are .
Speaker 2Correct . Well , there are times where you start with one therapist , you address one issue and then you stop therapy and then you realize , oh , maybe I need to work on you know Z in my life now , but my other therapist didn't really specialize in that . You're allowed to change your therapist as well , that's OK .
Speaker 1And I've done that . One of my therapists does not do trauma based and I am three plus years out of you know , a traumatic birth experience . I never fully did that and I was having a conversation with her and she said you know what I want to do , I want to pause with us and I want you to dive in with EMDR trained therapist and I want you to work through this birth situation . So that's what we're doing and you know it's kind of like you know you don't go to a stomach doctor for a broken bone and it's the same kind of you know theory there and everybody works together because I'm having issues and some issues , but it's really back from the traumatic birth Right . So again , it's all tied together , but I think it's . You know .
Speaker 1Hopefully we hope this conversation for you guys has . If you're thinking about therapy , you kind of take that next step . If you're in therapy , realize you're not the only one in therapy . There's a lot of people in therapy , therapists , great job security , especially as life continues to life and unfortunately , and that you know if it's not working , where do you find someone else .
Speaker 1So , it is definitely a risk factor reduction intervention . It is a treatment for if it's you're a mom and you're struggling or if you're having grief . It is proven and it will help you Absolutely . All right , friends . Thank you again for listening . We will see you guys next week . See ya .
Everyone Benefits from Therapy
Speaker 3Maternal mental health is as important as physical health . The Preview Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables , like anxiety , anger and even apathy . Hosted by CEO founder Sarah Parkhurst and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay , each episode focuses on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum . Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges , as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms . You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time . Please know you're not alone on this journey . We're here to help .