Previa Alliance Podcast
There are few experiences as universal to human existence as pregnancy and childbirth, and yet its most difficult parts — perinatal mood and anxiety disorders (PMADs) — are still dealt with in the shadows, shrouded in stigma. The fact is 1 in 5 new and expecting birthing people will experience a PMAD, yet among those who do many are afraid to talk about it, some are not even aware they’re experiencing one, and others don’t know where to turn for help. The fact is, when someone suffers from a maternal mental health disorder it affects not only them, their babies, partners, and families - it impacts our communities.
In the Previa Alliance Podcast series, Sarah Parkhurst and Whitney Gay are giving air to a vastly untapped topic by creating a space for their guests — including survivors of PMADs and healthcare professionals in maternal mental health — to share their experiences and expertise openly. And in doing so, Sarah and Whitney make it easy to dig deep and get real about the facts of perinatal mental health, fostering discussions about the raw realities of motherhood. Not only will Previa Alliance Podcast listeners walk away from each episode with a sense of belonging, they’ll also be armed with evidence-based tools for healing, coping mechanisms, and the language to identify the signs and symptoms of PMADs — the necessary first steps in a path to treatment. The Previa Alliance Podcast series is intended for anyone considering pregnancy, currently pregnant, and postpartum as well as the families and communities who support them.
Sarah Parkhurst
Previa Alliance Podcast Co-host; Founder & CEO of Previa Alliance
A postpartum depression survivor and mom to two boys, Sarah is on a mission to destigmatize the experiences of perinatal mood and anxiety disorders (PMADs), and to educate the world on the complex reality of being a mom. Sarah has been working tirelessly to bring to light the experiences of women who have not only suffered a maternal mental health crisis but who have survived it and rebuilt their lives. By empowering women to share their own experiences, by sharing expert advice and trusted resources, and by advocating for health care providers and employers to provide support for these women and their families, Sarah believes as a society we can minimize the impact of the current maternal mental health crisis, while staving off future ones.
Whitney Gay
Previa Alliance Podcast Co-host; licensed clinician and therapist
For the past ten years, Whitney has been committed to helping women heal from the trauma of a postpartum mental health crisis as well as process the grief of a miscarriage or the loss of a baby. She believes that the power of compassion paired with developing critical coping skills helps moms to heal, rebuild, and eventually thrive. In the Previa Alliance Podcast series, Whitney not only shares her professional expertise, but also her own personal experiences of motherhood and recovery from grief.
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Previa Alliance Podcast
How to Start the Conversation about Maternal Mental Health
How do you start a conversation with someone about the most common complication of pregnancy? How do you talk about anxiety and depression or traumatic birth? Listen in as Whitney and Sarah break down how to approach someone about Maternal Mental Health and most importantly equip them.
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hi guys, welcome back to preview lines. Podcast is sarah, and I'm with your favorite therapist, also mine, whitney welcome, hey, friends whitney, we had a lot of questions recently and I'd actually texted you this.
Speaker 1:I was. This is such a good, valid point and I think it comes naturally to maybe me and you, even though I have found myself awkward in this before and is I keep being asked. So I love what you guys are talking about. I love maternal mental health awareness, right. How do you bring that awareness to someone who is trying to get pregnant, pregnant newly, postpartum? This may be the first time that someone's broaching this conversation. I thought it's just a really good point of it's awkward. Still, there's still stigma, there's still this you don't want to be doom and gloom, right, but you want to empower this person, right.
Speaker 2:So I think, remember, keep in mind, this isn't a stranger at Target or Walmart that you're approaching. You're not just going up to some random person and saying, oh, I see that you're pregnant. Do you know about postpartum depression and anxiety? This is someone that you know, that you have a relationship with. This is someone that you know, that you have a relationship with, whether it be a family member, coworker, friend. You know this person. There's some rapport there.
Speaker 2:So when you approach them, remember, like we're not starting from scratch, yeah, keep that in mind. You have a foundation there with this person. So when you do go up to them and let's just say that they are pregnant, and it is known that they're pregnant, they've announced it, all the things. So you're not just jumping the gun on any assumptions. And if you yourself experienced postpartum anxiety, depression, ocd, ptsd, any of those things, you can say I'm so excited for you. So, number one, share in the excitement, start with a positive and just say I don't know if anyone has talked to you about this, but I did experience postpartum anxiety, depression, fill in the blank. And I just want you to know I'm a safe person if you ever have questions about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then you know, I think, the next step. I generally have a good intro and so do you right. If they're like what do you do right or what do you specialize in, it's like this is the company. We have this podcast, this is I'm a maternal health therapist, I specialize in this right, and I think sometimes if somebody has struggled with this and maybe they've not fully worked through it, maybe they didn't get the treatment or the encouragement or support that they needed, it can be hard to take that story.
Speaker 2:Well, and you know, you talk to that person and say, hey, I experienced this. If you ever have questions about what does it feel like, what does it look like, what are those symptoms, I'm here, I'm an open book for you, because I also fell through the cracks. Or I didn't get the support that I needed, even though I was diagnosed, or I got medication like my social support was not what I needed it to be, or my OB didn't listen to me, or whatever that may be and just say I want to be able to equip you or give you that insight so that you don't have to experience what I did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know. And two, I always say this is the most common complication of pregnancy. This is so that you would be shocked at how many people women have said you know I experienced this. Or when I was trying to get pregnant, I experienced anxiety. When I was pregnant, I felt I was depressed.
Speaker 1:I didn't tell anybody and we know research supports this as well and the endless amount of previa moms that we've had the pleasure of encountering is that it really kind of just takes that small icebreaker of knowing that you're not alone, it's not isolated to you and it's the same. We have to also change a conversation because there's so much stigma behind mental health in general. Do you see this outside of just moms, just clients coming to you and saying, well, it took me so long because maybe I didn't want to admit something was wrong or I thought fill in X, y and Z. You know how do you just talk to us about how kind of that big step of just recognizing mental health as health is really kind of part of the bigger conversation we need to be having?
Speaker 2:Well, I think I talk to my clients a lot about the mind-body connection, how frequently if we are experiencing some type of mental illness or mental distress, even and it can be situational that we have physical repercussions from that. So, for example, a lot of people that struggle with anxiety, worry or stress, they have GI issues, they have a lot of stomach troubles or they get headaches frequently because there's a lot of tension, a lot of muscle tension kind of things. People that experience depression often talk about muscle fatigue. They feel like their muscles are just worn out all the time, even if they got eight hours of sleep, things like that. People with PTSD feel like their muscles are actually always tense and up and it's because they're hypervigilant, because they have to be. Their brain has taught them that. So we need to understand that our brain impacts our body. Just like our brain tells us to put one foot in front of the other to walk, it tells the rest of our bodies how to react to this anxiety or this stress.
Speaker 1:And I think too that's why it gets so difficult to, especially during pregnancy, is to determine are you depressed, Are you anxious? Because a lot of the physical symptoms can mimic pregnancy symptoms, right, and so that is why it's important for this conversation of maternal mental health awareness is that we start early in saying listen, this is 50% of depression. Anxiety that happens in postpartum actually begins in pregnancy. We know this from research. It's often again missed because you will, I don't want to eat, Okay, Well, the doctor might be like well, you're still nauseous, right, or I'm so tired, Well, you're growing a human right. And then it's that deeper questions that need to be had to really flush out.
Speaker 3:Is this a?
Speaker 1:pregnancy or is this a mental health system? But again, is it awareness and it's. You know. I always tell people we should be talking about maternal mental health like we do stroke and heart attack If I'm right here on our Zoom, said OK, just grabbed my chest. I was like Whitney, I can't breathe. Whitney is going to say, Sarah, I think you're having. I was like Whitney, I can't breathe. Whitney is going to say, sarah, I think you're having a heart attack.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm calling 911. What's your address? Where are you?
Speaker 1:Uh-huh and so, but in the same sense of like signs and symptoms and awareness, we have to have that for pregnancy and postpartum mental health and you know the other day, too, I was getting my hair done and I had a new hairstylist and she was pregnant and we were just talking and she was asking me about my kids and I just felt this prompting of I need to share with her and it was a really positive conversation because she had said you know, I was actually looking for resources.
Speaker 1:I was actually anxious because I was feeling a certain way and I was afraid of what postpartum was going to get. What can I do now? So that tells me she's not alone. I'm not alone. I think so much. We're hyper-educational a big word there. That just means when we're pregnant and postpartum. We all want to be such a good mom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that pressure is high.
Speaker 1:And part of being a good mom is taking care of our own mental health Right. But if you don't, know that something is wrong, that not to be that way, you just assume it is status quo, when it's the last thing from that.
Speaker 2:Right, absolutely Well, because I do think. A lot of times we're told oh, just suck it up. Yeah, we're made to feel like it's normal and it's not.
Speaker 1:I remember specifically expressing concerns in them being like well, you got through it before and I think it's a conversation to maybe even it is a mom who she experienced anxiety and depression she didn't know she did in her first Pregnant again and she's fearful of is that going to happen again to me? Is this going to be?
Speaker 1:the same experience Like we can't go back that way. So I mean, what would you encourage that person who maybe is listening to do if they're going? Okay, whitney, it rings a bell what you guys are talking about. And now I'm pregnant again. What do we do?
Speaker 2:Well, I think part of it is realize that you didn't do anything wrong. Try to avoid that guilt and shame, because we can't avoid the hormonal shift that we're going to experience. It's unavoidable. They've yet to figure out a way to avoid the hormone crash that we all go through post baby Right. So keep that in mind. Keep that in mind that you can't avoid the hormonal shift. And you wouldn't judge someone that was diabetic that needed insulin for their blood sugar. You wouldn't judge someone with a thyroid problem that needed medication to regulate that. So, therefore, don't feel guilty, don't feel shame, because you can't control the hormonal shift that's taking place. And even if you did experience it with your first, that doesn't make you immune from the next. It makes you more aware and makes you better informed of what that looks like for you. What are your symptoms for?
Speaker 1:it Right and you know I think too it is, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe too is like our neuron pathways, pathways. You know. Once I had experienced postpartum depression and anxiety, it's almost like the pathways were created, you know, like a dog in the yard who always goes the same path to go potty. It's in the naturally go that path right. And so I did notice that once I had experienced that, it was easier for my thoughts and feelings to go down that path versus where it never went before.
Speaker 2:It is. You know you are Perhaps you shape that up here.
Speaker 1:Right and you are more susceptible for it again if you did experience it right. And then, at the same thought is you are not at fault for the risk factors that you bring into it that you cannot change Right. Whitney cannot change thyroid issues. Whitney cannot change family history. No, you know, I could not change the fact that we moved, I was isolated from family, I had a NICU baby. Those were all uncontrollable things that added on. Were all uncontrollable things that added on. Now, the things that we can control, we should control. So what do you tell your pregnant or soon to be pregnant clients? And they're like okay, whitney, what is some controllable things that I can control or work on now that's going to help me.
Speaker 2:I think some of it is assessing yourself. How do you react when you're sleep deprived? So some people thrive, some people don't. Do you have a pre-existing history of mental illness? If so, did you take a medication and it worked well? Can we restart that medication at a lower dose?
Speaker 2:That's something within your control. That's one way that we can be proactive. Did you do therapies before and it was a good support for you? Do you need to restart therapy during your pregnancy so it's in place when you deliver? Those are things that are within your control. If you do have a good support system, how can you rally that support system for when you have your baby? Does that mean we have a meal train set up? Does that mean that somebody that you trust can come help you care for the baby so that you can get some rest and sleep? Does that mean that you know some of the money that you get from your baby shower can go to a housekeeper so that that is off of your plate or that you can come home from the hospital to a clean house?
Speaker 2:Yeah, All great things that we can be active with Because, again, the hormones shift in our brain. We don't have a whole lot that we can do that for.
Speaker 1:No, and you know and how your birth goes, and I think that's a huge thing that people have to be flexible with their birth plans. I always tell people be very flexible. I want you to have what you want and so does the medical providers, you know. But that can feel really violating and guilty and shame comes in and there's a whole lot that happens with that. And I think, going back to again the beginning of the conversation, how do you even broach it? And I loved what you said, just honesty and sharing, and I think that is the key to anything in life is to say you know this is or if you didn't experience it, but you want someone to know about it. Maybe you've.
Speaker 1:You know your loved one, did you know? My sister went through this. I didn't know how to support her. I wish I would have had these conversations with her where I wish we would have. And I think it's again, it's not just on mom to know about this, because oftentimes she is fighting such a battle internally and it's such a change. You have this new baby that needs you, that's eating constantly.
Speaker 1:You're up all hours of night even though up from down it feels like groundhog day times a zillion and you have to have again. I love how you said I'm your safe person. I am a person you can talk to. I'm a person that you can share how you're feeling with me, right, and we can figure this out Correct? Yes, and having a mental health plan is so much more important than having your nursery all ready to go.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Well. And one thing to remind yourself if you're approaching that friend, co-worker, whoever it is, you're not accusing them of anything. I think sometimes, when we think we're approaching somebody, we view it as a confrontation, or that we're accusing somebody and that's not what you're doing. It's not a confrontation. So try to get that maybe bias out of your thinking.
Speaker 1:Right and I love that, and you're not saying to that person you're going to have this.
Speaker 2:Right, it's. Hey, I experienced this. If you have questions, I'm an open book. You are making yourself available.
Speaker 1:And if they're like, okay, now the conversation started and I'm not a well expert, I'm not versed on this you can always refer them to. You can say, hey, this podcast is great, listen to this. You can say postpartum support international you can go and look for a therapist there. You know there's so much more information than there was even five years ago about maternal mental health. But the key here is again to start the conversation. Familiarize yourself. There's screening tools. There's the Edinburgh Postpartum Depression Scale. There's a lot of anxiety screenings out there.
Speaker 1:Available Therapy what's treatment options? Therapy is a huge prevention tool plus treatment tool. Medication have a knowledge with your provider. Does your provider want to talk to you about mental health? Is your provider comfortable with that? Are they comfortable treating All things that need to come into consideration?
Speaker 1:You know, if you're not feeling comfortable even talking to your provider about maybe some of your pregnancy concerns more likely, you're not going to share with them how you're feeling mentally some of your pregnancy concerns more likely, you're not going to share with them how you're feeling mentally. So I think all those things are good conversation starting points and if it is awkward the first time, it's not going to be awkward the second and third, because it's like you're ripping off a bandaid and I always tell myself, with these I would rather you know than no one ever tell you. And I sometimes even say that to people. I'm like listen, no one told me. So if nothing else, I can plant a seed of awareness in your mind.
Speaker 1:If you do feel this way, then hopefully you remember that and we can have a conversation. And again, you're not alone in that. And since you're very versed in having awkward conversations, what else tips? Just to be direct, not be offended, or just to come at it as even you think they are struggling, like what's? If you, you know, you really thought hey, sarah, you're struggling, what's some kind of therapy tips we can take away into these conversations?
Speaker 2:So okay, we're going to pretend you're my pregnant friend.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:And I'm going to come up to you and I'm going to say, sarah, I've kind of noticed the past. You know, couple of weeks or however long, that you seem to be like just upset or kind of like on edge lately, and I know that you're pregnant. Are you okay? Is everything at home okay? Do you feel like you're experiencing any anxiety, things like that? Because if you are, I'm here to help you. I want you to know that I can be here for you. And you would say you know what I actually am.
Speaker 2:I don't really know what to expect with motherhood. I'm already overwhelmed, and the baby's not even here yet, because that's probably something that could be said Very, very much, I would think, especially for a first time mom. It's like I don't, I don't know what's going to happen. This is uncharted territory. Yeah, so you, you could come back and say I just don't really know what to expect in motherhood and I'm really nervous about how this is going to go. And I would say but that's okay. Number one we're all winging it. We're always winging it, always. We never get to a point where we're really just efficient in this parenthood thing. And we'd say but you know what? I'm here for you. I'm a safe place for you to talk to. If you need a therapist, let me know. I'll help you find one. But if it's keeping you up at night and you can't get rid of these thoughts, you may want to talk to your doctor about a medicine for that, because I'm worried that that could get a little bit harder for you once baby is here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I think that's. You know, I hear a lot of it is right before birth. It's like it kind of really hits you and sometimes, even if you're a second, third time mom, you know what's coming and sometimes that anxiety is on top of you as well. Oh, a thousand percent. So you know it's what they say. You know the devil known versus the unknown devil. It can be either way there.
Speaker 1:But again, I think the end of the day, if you ever heard something the other day and it's like you know, if you have went through something and it could be anything, you know. If it's depression and anxiety, if it's PTSD, if it's you know you've lost a loved one and now your friends lost a loved one. Even those kinds of examples, right, we can use what we have experienced or someone close to us has experienced, to comfort and help and guide along, because you need to see someone on the other side. You need to see someone who's survived it, who's not where they are now, to gives you hope.
Speaker 1:I think it is just that's how we really change the conversation is it starts with that one simple you know, let me share with you, or I'm going to say this to you and just be aware. So I think, for all listeners who are like you know, I needed to hear this. I want to have this conversation Go back to what Whitney said in the beginning. Just open on a share and, you know, worst case is they hear about it. It doesn't affect them, but they now know.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly. Now you know you're equipped. You're equipped for if or when you need this information.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's perfect. All right, friends, hopefully we have equipped you to have that conversation and again, you can always bounce back to us and say, hey, listen to the Preview Alliance podcast. I've been listening to this and I think you'll find this valuable. If you listen, you know, go back to our what Is series. That is a great starting point for everybody. So we will be back and we'll see you next week. Bye, guys.
Speaker 3:Maternal mental health is as important as physical health. The Preview alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables, like anxiety, anger and even apathy. Hosted by ceo founder sarah parkhurst and licensed clinical social worker whitney gay, each episode focus on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum. Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges, as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms. You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time. Please know you're not alone on this journey. We're here to help.