Speaker 1: 0:01

Hey guys, welcome back to Preview Lion's podcast. This is Sarah, and this week I am honored to have Michelle Lampak on to speak about what her role at Bobby, one of our favorite formula companies, where she leads the change, the social impact and policy arm, and she's a mom of two, she's an advocate, she's a leader, she's a builder and, most importantly, you're going to get to know her personally and why fighting for moms is so important to her. Hi guys, welcome back to Preview Lines Podcast. As I said in my intro, I have Michelle with me. Michelle, welcome, so glad to see you face-to to face for the first time on Zoom and this as we, prior to this, we were saying this is the anniversary of COVID, so maybe Michelle's both like slowly recovering from that trauma shock to our bodies even mentioning that, sure yeah.

Speaker 2: 0:56

Happy five years to us. Like we got through it, we're still in it. But yeah, I mean Like we got through it, we're still in it. But yeah, I mean I don't know where you were five years ago, but that was not a cute time. I was pregnant.

Speaker 1: 1:11

Yeah, you were pregnant. Oh, wow, yeah. So that is a, I think a lack discussed is the pregnant mom, pregnant COVID moms, right, and that we are still seeing so much of the aftermath. I mean, let's talk about that for a second before we dive into who you are, what you're about. Michelle, back in COVID, pregnant. What were you thinking? How was that in your head?

Speaker 2: 1:36

It was so scary. So I was pregnant with my second and I was leading the nonprofit that I founded in New York but I was living in Oakland, was leading the nonprofit that I founded in New York but I was living in Oakland. So this was before I was working remotely, before remote like we called it. Remote right, it was bi-coastal, I think, is what we were calling it and I was supposed to go to a big celebration in New York at the organization and the weekend before it was going to be on March 12th, and the weekend before my husband said what are you doing? We've got a toddler. You're four months pregnant. It seems like this isn't going anywhere. I'm like, no, it's fine.

Speaker 2: 2:13

You know, like we all were kind of a little bit in denial and I think that is kind of part of also just being this ambitious working mother that I was. I was like, well, no, of course I'm getting on a plane. Of this ambitious working mother that I was, I was like, well, no, of course I'm getting on a plane, of course I'm going to do it pregnant, of course. Like there's this thing coming down the pipeline, but I can manage it. And I felt an incredible sense of guilt. But the day before, so actually today, so because today's the 11th, I called it. I said, okay, you're right, like this is kind of crazy. I, this is not like. I see, you know, I'm reading the news, I'm seeing things. This doesn't make sense to put myself at risk and come to find out, obviously, that New York became the epicenter or one of the epicenters nationally and I don't know, I could have gotten stuck there, I could have gotten COVID, like there's so many different things. So I didn't go. But then you know, when you said, like the thing about the pregnant COVID mom I meet them when somebody says the age of their kid I immediately know during COVID and I'm like, oh, I know you.

Speaker 2: 3:11

I just got chills because a lot of us had to face the potential of our partner not being in the hospital. My husband never met in person my midwife. I had a midwifery birth for both of my kids. One was in New York I still lived in New York with my first and one was here, but in a hospital setting. My husband didn't meet her until I gave birth and so there was just that component of it and it very quickly became clear that, because I was later I was August 2020, became clear that because I was later I was August 2020, that he would be able to be in the hospital. But still, we had the hospital tour where there was a nurse who was crying she was over zoom and she was crying to us about how terribly she felt for us and I was like this is it. I don't know if this is making me feel good.

Speaker 2: 4:02

I do think being a second time mom made a difference, because there was the same level of unknowns and, in the end, my doula could not come to the hospital, but she was with me at my house and it all happened very, very quickly. And I got there and my midwife she's like six foot one. She's wearing clogs. She was wearing a Canadian tuxedo. You know, denim on denim.

Speaker 2: 4:26

I had like my water broke at the house and we were like we need to get to the hospital and they're like you need to get COVID tests and she was like we will not be COVID testing, we're having a baby. Like when is she going to be upstairs? 20 minutes later had the baby. So I did get COVID tested, but after the fact and you know, in the end it was this beautiful, incredible birth and there was some trauma associated with my first birth. So this was actually a very and not unrelated. Obviously, there was not COVID at the time, but this was a very healing experience for me where I really could like take back and have the labor that I wanted. My dog was very much a part of pre-labor at the house and my doula and all these things. So there was some really beautiful things.

Speaker 2: 5:06

But that was August 2020, which was a wildfire, heat wave and then pandemic here in the Bay Area, and that was a nightmare. I call it the like evil. Trifecta Couldn't leave the house because the air quality was horrible and you couldn't really be inside because it was absolutely scorching, and then you couldn't really see anyone because it was the pandemic. Yeah, so somehow I think just again from being a second time mom and having a different set of tools, I got through that in a different way, and it also was exactly the time I stepped down from the organization that I founded and led for a decade. So there was a huge period in my postpartum with my son of who am I now?

Speaker 2: 5:52

Yeah, which, again, when I tell the story, I'm like I'm not sure how I sort of came out of that Okay. But in the end I actually think and you know you mentioned before we started recording like I talked about my dad getting sick and all this stuff, like I think there was trauma building up through COVID, through this experience, and then ultimately my dad got diagnosed with bile duct cancer. It all just kind of exploded for me and so I don't think I was okay. I think just I was managing as best that I could, and I think we all were. I mean, it's not a normal situation to go through a global pandemic, let alone raising children, let alone giving birth, being pregnant, being a birthing person, like those things are not normal. And so I don't think we have like I guess maybe now we have a playbook. Hopefully we'll not have to open that playbook anytime soon.

Speaker 1: 6:54

Yeah, and then I always love to know is the pre-Michelle for kids? Did you have any thoughts of how becoming a mom would be? Did you have this picture of your mind of, okay, going to do X, y and Z, get pregnant, go to work, going to? You know you built this amazing organization and then all, like you said, kind of trifecta hit you. So do you think any part of how you thought it was going to go versus how it went?

Speaker 2: 7:26

you think any part of how you thought it was going to go versus how it went, I mean I don't, I don't think I thought that deeply about it. Yeah, I did have a sense. So with my first we were still living in New York and I thought that not mat leave. I would brush up on my French.

Speaker 1: 7:42

Like, oh, you know, like, why not learn a second language?

Speaker 2: 7:45

There was just this sense of and I and I. So that was my daughter's about to be eight. So you know, this is eight and a half, nine years ago. I do think culture has changed in the last, you know, let's call it almost decade. There's still a lot of things that have not changed. There's still a lot of things that have not changed, but there I it was, it was this I was starting to see, and again, social media, you know, was sort of mid.

Speaker 2: 8:15

It's not as it wasn't as penetrated as it is now, but it was still there. I don't think like creators in the same way, an influencer was exactly the same at that point. So I don't think I had as many images, but I did have a very clear picture of a goddess mom, of a perfect mom, and I thought that, as somebody who tends to achieve the goals that they set, that I was going to meet those goals, whether it was in giving birth or whether it was around breastfeeding, whether it was around how my kid was, how put together they were when they were in my, you know, in the carrier. You know, meanwhile, my husband and it sounds kind of cruel, but it wasn't, it was like, meant to show love. But this is his sense of humor. He had an album called Making it Look Easy and it was all these photos of me struggling and again it sounds really cool, but it was more just to be like this is real life. Like it is really hard to put a car seat in, it is really hard to get your kid dressed and you know, get out the door and have a dog and you know, like all the things. Because he knew he recognized and started to see in me that, like I had very unrealistic expectations about my ability to be perfect and I'm this perfectionist, like just in general, having you know, nothing to do with anything external, that just like how I'm wired and it's something that I've always tried to unlearn. So when you start to see, wait a second, like and my, we had a nanny when I went back to work and I mean she did make it look easy, but she's a professional and she'd been doing it for 25 years.

Speaker 2: 10:01

I was a serious working mom and not just and I mean serious meaning I should say just full time and very as a leader of an organization. It is like you can't really I was such a small organization too you can't really take mat leave. I, we, we created and wrote the policy for me, but I was kind of irreplaceable and I think that's something we also don't talk a lot about too is you can have the policies in place, but in certain roles, especially if you're a small business owner or you're a leader of an organization, you are irreplaceable, like so I was. I took Matt leave for three months, but I worked every single day for several hours a day, and so that's what I mean as a mom that was so passionate about what I was doing and didn't have an infrastructure to support me on that leave, I was not set up for success. I don't know exactly how I would have done it differently. Well, here's one way I would have had a nanny on mat leave or some kind of part-time support or something, if we could have figured it out financially, because that really would have given me a break. You know that I need to do, as opposed to doing what I think I still do, and a lot of us do, is try and do both at the same time, and then you are clearly not doing a good job at either one of them and it leaves you with a feeling of like deep dis, or at least me, my lived experiences that has left me with a feeling of dissatisfaction.

Speaker 2: 11:31

I mean, yesterday is an example. I picked up my daughter. We have somebody that picks her up and a group of her classmates and takes her to a different location which is only five minutes away, but to her aftercare program and that person's away. So I am in a job where so many of us are moms and it's incredible and I'll just be like I'm going to pop out to you know, get Goldie and you know beyond. But a meeting got scheduled during that time, which is fine, and I told Goldie. I said hey, I'm going to be in a meeting when I pick you up.

Speaker 2: 12:00

So the entire 10 minutes that I'm picking her up in school, I have my earphones on. I'm having a meeting. It's FaceTime it. You know one point the AirPods are losing battery. So then, like my entire team that I'm in the meeting with, here's the bell ring. You know it's like it's not cute and again, that's like making it look easy. You know like that would fall into that album. I did what I needed to do. Follow that album. I did what I needed to do. I would have liked to just be focused on my meeting or focused on picking up my daughter, but there are just times when that is impossible, and everybody has to just get comfortable with that. That it's not always going to be perfect. There has to be times where you are fully focused on the endeavor in front of you, though. If you never have that, that's where things really start to crack at the foundation. In my experience, Totally.

Speaker 1: 12:53

I resonate with so much that I know so many moms do. Right. We do see our type A, the perfectionist moms. You know that, as you said, prior to having these wonderful children in our lives, we set out to do something we could do it right, or we get accomplishment and it kind of can become a little task driven accomplishment, like in. Sometimes motherhood is really messy, right when you're just like in the newborn days, did I shower? I barely could get this going. You know I felt like I and it does. It sends you for that huge transition that we're not prepared for. And, as you mentioned, like the goddess movement, the birthing movement and it, you know I had children mine are going to be seven and four soon and it was this time where I felt and we'll get into this about what you do for Bobby, which we love.

Speaker 1: 13:44

We're huge fans of Formula Company, but specifically with breastfeeding. It was a strong message I'm very open of. You know your mental health needs to come first and I know you hear a lot of messages from your Bobby clients and from yourself. Can you just speak to a little bit about the messaging that you guys are trying to put out there now? That's supportive, because for so long we've been on the opposite end. Right, it's either like we're shamed to talk about formula or you're just like well, I'm giving formula, but I'm breastfeeding too. Right, it's like you always, or? But I had to stop. You know, it's like you always have to say something extra.

Speaker 2: 14:35

Yeah, yeah, I mean I think, and I don't know, I guess you introduced me. So yes, I'm a human rights attorney, I work at Bobby, I lead our impact and policy arm, bobby for Change, and the mission of Bobby is to change culture around how we feed our babies, and the formula is almost secondary to that. But the culture change is really rooted in the DNA of the company and I think in many ways the work that I do is testament to that and it's what drew me to the company because, as you said, I exclusively breastfed both my children for two years. But there were two radically different experiences. The first time, my first daughter or my only daughter, my first child, it wasn't even a question. I wasn't going to use formula. If you were using formula, you were importing it from overseas on the black market, which is what my friends at that time were doing.

Speaker 2: 15:34

But I set out my goal. I was like this is what I'm doing, this is what I'm supposed to do, this is what the American Academy of Pediatrics is telling me to do. I achieve all my goals. Academy of Pediatrics is telling me to do I achieve all my goals. And so I did everything to achieve those goals. My supply was never quite there. I used lactation consultant, ibclc. I was very blessed to be able to have those resources and talk to my midwife about it and all those things. And the way to keep up my supply was like I was up at four in the morning pumping for feeding her and then doing an extra pump for nine months and and just so gripped with fear because I didn't have a big stash and I was coming on the New York city subway which was breaking down all the time at that time and maybe still is, I don't know and like just terrified that the nanny was going to have to break into the stash and it was like this whole thing. Everything was about ensuring that I could exclusively breastfeed and you know, some may say that that's like a worthy endeavor, but for me and I cannot speak for anyone else it was one of the things that was a central cause of my postpartum anxiety, or it was that I had somebody who has lived with generalized anxiety and the postpartum period exacerbated it. I'd never been on medication up until that point. For some reason I stopped seeing my therapist, who I'd been in like my talk therapist. I had been going to her for years and for some reason, about six to 12 months before I gave birth, I decided that I wasn't going to be in therapy. What a wildly misinformed decision.

Speaker 2: 17:28

At that time, postpartum depression very clearly talked about. I was on the lookout for it. Postpartum anxiety I did not even know was a thing, so I just didn't even like my husband didn't know and like it caused such a strain in our marriage because I was just a mess. He wasn't feeding the baby, he wasn't helping, because when I was home I was breastfeeding, the only person that was was actually feeding the baby. Besides me was our nanny Cause I pumped specifically for her. Like I mean, just it was like liquid gold and I was spending all this time, you know, washing all the supplies and all that stuff. So eventually, about a year in, you know, then it transitions to she can have milk, she can have other things. So it was a different thing. After the year. It was a different thing that we got through. But I white knuckled it to a point that now I look back and I have so much empathy for my first year postpartum self, the like that mom was really, really struggling.

Speaker 2: 18:34

Oh, and I had conversations with, I mean, there was this doula who just does incredible work. She's a prenatal and postpartum yoga teacher. She runs this amazing birthing center. She's amazing. And she supported the organization that I led and we had a five-year anniversary. I was like five months postpartum or something of the organization I founded on local is the name of it and her husband and her came and he they did not have kids.

Speaker 2: 19:02

He didn't like this is not his expertise. He wasn't a doula, like whatever. He said, like something along the lines of like, how are you doing? Or something. And I'm like, oh, you know, I've been up at night, you know pumping and you know. And I said, actually I'm thinking about introducing formula. And he said, well, you know, it's really a slippery slope because if you start to introduce formula, then it's going to bring your supply down and then you're just going to end up using formula.

Speaker 2: 19:34

Oh my gosh of this person that, on so many levels, like, how is it any of your business? One, it is not your main expertise. You've never even had a child. You are talking to someone in the like, most tender, precious moments of their life, like, just like he thought, for he had some adjacency to authority, but even still, if she had said it, it still would have been inappropriate because she was my provider and I was not asking for that advice. But he certainly like was so far.

Speaker 2: 20:12

But this perceived adjacency to expertise is very dangerous when it comes to all parenthood writ large. Yeah, and we can only speak if we are not like domain expertise. I can talk to you about human rights, law and policy and the things that I know about as an expert, but I am the expert of my parenting experience and my lived experience. You are of yours and we need to really set those boundaries because we are so impressionable, especially at that time, and everybody champions their own decisions because they've gone through the meat grinder of like deciding that decision. That's phenomenal, but that might not be the best decision for you, the other person. That was the best decision for me and I think that we live in a culture where there's an incredible wealth of information. We're always trying to optimize for X, y and Z, and I think it has been in some ways. It can be wonderful to democratize information, but in the wrong hands it is incredibly harmful and that interaction deeply impacted me.

Speaker 1: 21:26

And it's still fresh in you years, years later.

Speaker 2: 21:30

Right, and it's like years eight you know, almost eight years or seven and a half years later, yeah, and so that's all to say. When I was on this extended mat leave after I left the organization I founded, I had said to myself I wasn't sure what it was. I said I really I want to work around parenthood. I want to do something around motherhood or parenthood, I don't know what it is. I started working on a different project, doing human rights work in the nonprofit sector after I left on local, really trying to figure out who I was doing this part-time thing and as a volunteer and getting pulled in different directions. And then I heard about Bobby when it came on to the market, and it was this very clear vision of we're trying to change culture and they were manufacturing this product. That clearly was so needed because, as I mentioned when I had my daughter, everybody was bringing in importing formula and this was EU standards. That's what I heard and I was like, oh, this is such a great idea and this resonates, given the experience that I had had. You know, so, long story short, there wasn't a role at the time and I ended up meeting the founders. And then the formula shortage hit a year and change later and I reached back out and you know, the stars aligned and they had already been doing some policy work and showing up in DC and bringing the voices of consumers to DC and saying this is not OK, like this is an essential good. We need to be able to feed our babies. We, meaning the United States of America, needs to have a supply, a resilient and diverse supply, such that if there is a factory shutdown, which is what happened, that we can support still the formula, users in the country, the families that rely. So I mean heavily like life and death. You know really critical things here and Bobby for change, as we like to say was forged by fire and I joined just as my dad was entering hospice. It was a really, it was a lifeline to in many ways, come into a new chapter for me professionally, as I was, as a daughter, you know, in a professional role that's so focused on parenthood and motherhood and as a daughter, a chapter was ending. It was just my dad's birthday last week and so now he passed away. Now it will be. It's like two years and two and a quarter years, like two years, three months or something. I've been at Bobby a little more than two and a half years, so it was really quickly after I started that he passed away.

Speaker 2: 24:23

But everything I do is like it's tied back to my dad in many ways, because he was such a he believed in me so much and, while he didn't exactly, we weren't the same, we weren't carbon copies none of us are but we had a lot of similarities. But doing change work and you know, just from a little girl I was, always I looked around the world and there was this feeling of like there's inequity, there are things that are just fundamentally unfair, and I was incensed by them and I had a lot of empathy for other people. So he truly, like, made me believe, or was one of the instrumental figures in my life that made me believe, that I could change the world, that I could do something impactful, and I think about that, the impact of one person, whoever it is, think about that with my kids a lot, and even just this morning. I want my kids to be competent, like. I love teaching them things and explaining things.

Speaker 2: 25:29

I went to a talk last night I mean this is a, you know, in the zeitgeist too, and it's interesting because I was a older parent. You know, I gave birth to Goldie at 36 and Albie at 39. So now I'm like entering perimenopause and I went to a menopause movie last night with some girlfriends and they gave us a baggie and Goldie's looking at the bag. What is this? And I'm explaining to her. Okay, so there's this. You know how we talk about you getting your period and you growing breasts and all this like that's a big milestone in a woman plus XX, like life, and another big moment is when their ovaries start to shut down and that's a big transition that I'm going to start going through and I learned a lot about it and these are the things that happen and I love empowering them with information and her especially because we have that shared chromosomes.

Speaker 2: 26:30

But today when we were, I was dropping her off. I was racing this morning to come be a part of this conversation and so I had to move some things around and drop her at a friend's house and I dropped my son off this conversation and so I had to move some things around and drop her at a friend's house and I dropped my son off at preschool and I said do you know how to get to Adeline's house from here? And she said yeah. I said okay, you direct me. We'd never done that before, you know, but it is part of this vision that I have for my kids of being really competent and that my dad gave me that too. It's like if you don't know it, figure it out. If you don't like what's happening, fix it. And that can start from like teaching them how to open a can with a can opener, how to get to your friend's house and also how to change the law, and that is that's what I do. I try and fix big problems that are impacting modern parenthood.

Speaker 1: 27:22

And I love that there was. I saw it was on Instagram the other day, but it was like what's the most important thing you can do for your children and it was to let them struggle to figure it out. That was what the psychiatrist was saying is that we are robbing our children of that opportunity to process and figure out. So I love what you did with your daughter and that is so important, daughter, and that is so important. And tell our listeners, if they're not familiar, some of the key kind of pillars that you and Bobby are fighting for change. I know paternal maternity leave is a huge one. What else?

Speaker 2: 27:54

Yeah Well, I'll just say about parental and family and medical leave, because I think sometimes a medical piece of it gets left out if you have a medical event and then also you know we work with the breast cancer community, so I'll talk about that as a pillar. But right now and I don't know when this will air, so the answer will probably have happened, the result. But we push for federal and state leave and so right now we are supporting the state campaign in New Mexico, which lost last year by two votes, and this year it has gotten through Commerce Committee, house and some Senate finance, the Senate Finance Committee, so it is very close to passing, and Bobby customers and Bobby brand partners will have been a huge part of that. So we'll see what happens. Federally, things are stalled right now. So what can we do in other ways to deliver wins for modern parenthood? That is what one of like the kind of critical, I think, overarching theme right now is let's meet the time that we are in. So, yes, parental leave is massively important to the work that we do, also like feeding in general, right, so we said like that's the culture of feeding and supporting all feeding journeys is our mission. That shows up in the body for change work in a couple of different ways. We resource breastfeeding initiatives and we support up-leveling nutrition and nutritional standards for formula. That is incredibly important. 1980, the 1980 infant formula act, was the last update of nutritional standards for formula. So I was 1980. So we would do the math. But that is wild. Right, that is really wild.

Speaker 2: 29:48

And within that it's also ensuring that we do have a domestic infrastructure so that we don't have a shortage again. So we now own our own manufacturing here in the US. That manufacturing facility. It was always manufactured here, but now we have our own manufacturing facility in Ohio, in Heath Ohio, in the heartland here. But now we have our own manufacturing facility in Ohio, in Heath Ohio, in the Heartland. And it is really important to have manufacturing and a supply chain that is supporting American jobs and really able to support babies that live in America, and so that is something that we're really laser focused on. And the way that we do that is we helped support the introduction of a domestic manufacturing bill that would incentivize new entrants to the market. It's a hyper consolidated duopoly. It's, you know, there's like two main players and then a third, and they represent like 85 to 90% of the market, depending on like what day and what year you are analyzing it. So it's massive, massively concentrated, and that you know that level of concentration. It doesn't do much for the diversity and resiliency that the industry needs. And then like casual, inartful, pivot, ending maternal mortality.

Speaker 2: 31:04

We spend a lot of time working on this issue. I guess I didn't say we partner with nonprofit organizations and, coming from the nonprofit sector, I love that. It's incredible to work with the organizations that have been doing the work. But we don't act as a traditional funder. We do donate, but we really come from a place of co-creation. We do donate, but we really come from a place of co-creation. We're very unique in that, as a company, we, our consumers and our staff are directly impacted by these issues. We are parents, our consumers are parents At Bobby, we're parents and we are impacted by these issues, care about these issues, have something to say about these issues, care about these issues, have something to say about these issues. And so we come from a place of co-creation where we generally focus on a policy, whether it's an existing bill or trying to write a bill to help introduce it, and then some kind of give back programming. So it's really 360.

Speaker 2: 32:00

And then I, in my seat, provide a lot of technical assistance and expertise to the founders. A lot of the organizations, most of them, are less than three years old, with small budgets like 300,000 or less. So we know that every single dollar that we are donating, or that we are getting our brand partners to donate, or awareness that we can create or getting our consumers to donate, that is incremental to the organization. That, for me, is absolutely critical. There are so many organizations that are out there that are worthy causes that need support, and the ones that we are working with they, I believe, because we've vetted them and we work with them are doing astonishing work at such a rate that is deeply undercompensated relative to the change that they are making. And I feel that it's the job of Bobby for Change to shine a light on that work. And we are so well positioned to do that because our consumers are becoming parents for the first or second or third time, whatever it is, and they are again reminded that we don't have the infrastructure, that we are not set up for modern parenthood, and they're fired up, they're mad. They're mad and they should be, and they're demanding change, and so we give them a way to do something to channel that anger, and it's by donating to this nonprofit. It's signing this petition, it's, in some cases, coming to an event, it's sharing something on social. These are easy ways to show up, but you can feel really good that the $50 that you donate at checkout or whatever it is, is doing something really impactful. So maternal mortality is is a big piece of our work. Or ending maternal mortality and then the kind of OG the original impact program at Bobby is related to.

Speaker 2: 33:59

Folks have been impacted by breast and now gynecologic cancer, and so we I mean I love this story, this story so much because I think it gets to really the heart of Bobby for Change and and kind of why. You know, I get a lot of people who, from brands, reach out to me and say how can we do this at our company? And it's like, well, it has to be in the DNA to begin with, like you can't retrofit a mission. You can't retrofit like give back, being integral to your brand. It has to be there from the beginning. It doesn't have to be like as big of a thing, but basically, in the fall of 2020, before we went to market in January of 2021, in the DMs of Bobby, we were like testing things out and meeting with customers. I wasn't there.

Speaker 2: 34:41

Yet Somebody who had had a mastectomy and breast cancer reached out in the DMs and said I can't get coverage from the Affordable Care Act for formula, even though I don't have breasts, but I can get a lactation pump. And our chief brand officer was like that's so messed up, like that doesn't make any sense. We'll give you formula and we'll also change the law. She didn't just like was so bullet. She was like yeah, cool, like we'll change that, you know, without knowing anything. Like that's not her domain, you know expertise. But she was like we got to do something about it. And I loved that because, like, there's just like a common sense to it. Right, it's like if the goal is to help parents in feeding their babies and there are some that just are not able to feed in a particular way then the other way that they are feeding should be covered. Like it's as simple as that.

Speaker 2: 35:31

So we started a cohort of at that time it was like four moms, bobby Breasties. We partnered with a breast cancer organization that's really focused on community. They specifically are a community for impacted breast gynecologic and caregivers and they're just an amazing group and so they built this Bobby Breasties program with us. This year we entered our fifth cohort and we opened the application process in September and then it announces in October during Breast Cancer Awareness Month. So we now have had 415 past and present Bobby Breasties who get up to a year of free formula. Wow, but we also this year was amazing we partnered with this organization, leche, and they also helped provide donor milk to the group if anyone wanted, which was incredible. And every year we're doing something more and more. We like bring in our community to also donate to the Breasties and it's a really beautiful group.

Speaker 2: 36:29

But this year we actually have bill text where it is our goal to introduce this bill. We have a lead in the house and we have our Bobby Breasties. Actually we had an advocacy training last week where each of them are going to try and help get a bill co-lead. So you want to have a bipartisan book, bicameral leads on a bill at the point of introduction to really give it the best chance to pass. And it would cover donor milk or formula for anybody who medically can't nurse.

Speaker 2: 37:06

So that is not limited to breast and gynecologic cancer, that is other chronic illness, that is, nipple abnormalities. That's if you're on SSRIs and your doctor writes I mean it's, it's quite expansive and it's also for any infants who can't nurse. So so it's so beautiful and it really gets to the heart of what we're trying to do, which is it's really from a centrist place is support all feeding journeys, and there are a lot of formula users in the country, but there's people who combination feed right, so they use formula and they breastfeed. That is like the posture of most of the Bobby customers is that they'll either supplement or whatever the ratio is. But for 50% of the formula users in the country they're covered by the WIC program, the federal program that's based on income, and the other 50% now we are chipping away at that. We are chipping away with a pretty like hefty group of people, and so being able to have this inclusive tent where we are covering feeding journeys, whatever they look like, I just I adore and it's really what we're trying to do.

Speaker 1: 38:22

That I mean I'm just at awe because we hear a lot from the SSRI or medication when we hear, you know, because our previa we're very we're maternal health and that is the number one complication of pregnancy and it is the hesitancy to start the medication because of breastfeeding, or I can't afford formula that weighs on the mom, so that I, we are so champion, champion for that, and applaud you guys and that is going to be so impactful.

Speaker 2: 38:48

We're looking for more bill endorsers.

Speaker 1: 38:50

if you want to endorse the bill, we would absolutely be honored to, because that is something we hear a lot is. It is a financial thing, that women also feel that the breastfeeding they cannot afford the formula right, or it is a way that we hear that and it's shameful for them to feel like I'm taking care of my mental health, because women don't talk about mental health. Right, we put ourselves last, so applaud. We would happily join in to support on that. But before we let you go, because we've been honored to take this much of your time, we ask this to all our guests. So what would Michelle now? You're a veteran mom. You've been through COVID. We've been through a lot. You've done a lot of advocacy work. What would you tell Michelle, who first saw that pregnancy test positive? What do you wish you could have tell her from your cumulative journey and knowledge that she needed along her motherhood?

Speaker 2: 39:45

Well, we'll say it wasn't a say, it wasn't a positive pregnancy test. I did IVF, okay.

Speaker 1: 39:51

Even that part was.

Speaker 2: 39:54

Yeah, it was a whole thing, a journey. Yeah, another story for another day. I mean it sounds really cliche, but is truly ask for help, because I didn't do it, because part of my vision of perfection was not only were you perfect, but you didn't need any help doing being perfect and stay in therapy. I love all that's holy. Stay in therapy and even potentially getting couples therapy.

Speaker 2: 40:27

I think it's such a huge transition for the co parent, the you know, the non birthing parent as well and I think, creating space where you're really checking in and they're kind of understanding and having a touch point for the changes that you're going through. We have a year into parenthood. We we started couples therapy and we're still in it and it's just it's so essential Because the unit, if you have it, you know, obviously some people are single parents by choice and we're not. Whatever the case may be, in our case we're a two parentparent household and it's just so important to have that infrastructure and that dedicated time to intentionally creating space to like for you to and to parent and our couple's therapist. She's a family therapist, so we also check in with her about stuff that has happened with our children and is happening with our children. Our daughter is really sensitive and sometimes we go through periods where she's really anxious and can't sleep. So we work through that.

Speaker 2: 41:35

So it is in whatever way you can, if you can, building that village and and being transparent about it. And being transparent about it because there's absolutely nobody who's doing it perfectly, there's nobody who's doing it alone and if they are, they absolutely don't wanna be and I don't think that we are meant to do it alone. I do think that friendshipsgenerational living, friendship living, you know, cooperative, like whatever, however, we can do to replicate like a kind of a true village and again, that's why it feels so cliche, because I know we say that, but like really digging into what that means, being alone in your home and like having your family, I don't think we're meant to do that. I I actually think that we are social beings and part of the trouble that we've experienced is that we've separated ourselves and we have added so much complexity to our lives that it becomes just an overwhelming amount of work, mental load and actual labor and that labor is meant to be shared mental load and actual labor and that labor is meant to be shared.

Speaker 1: 42:48

Yeah, that's wonderful. Where can our listeners find more of you and Bobby change? How's the best way to connect?

Speaker 2: 43:01

You can. Linkedin, I think, is actually you know, bobby on LinkedIn or me on LinkedIn. I share a lot about the advocacy work that we do. It's just Michelle Lampak, if you could find me at M-I-C-H-E-L-E. Lampak, l-a-m-p-a-c-h. Bobby for Change is Bobby for Change, so B-O-B-B-I-E-F-O-R-C-H-A-N-G-Eorg. But also on the Hi Bobby website we have a Bobby for Change landing page. So if you just go to hi Bobbybycom b-o-b-b-i-e. Um, hi h-i, there is a landing page. You find bobby for change and it's a place where you can donate to our non-profits, at times for different initiatives. You can gift a can to initiatives, as we did with the la wildfires, or you can see what calls to action we currently have open I love that, michelle.

Speaker 1: 43:45

It's been an honor. Please keep doing whatever you're doing. We're cheering for you and we really appreciate you guys being a voice for parents and it's a heavy load and it's a heavy torch to carry, but we see you and we're cheering you on and you're welcome back anytime. Thank you, all right listeners. We will see you next week. Have a wonderful week, all right listeners. We will see you next week. Have a wonderful week.

Speaker 3: 44:09

Maternal mental health is as important as physical health. The Preview Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables, like anxiety, anger and even apathy. Hosted by CEO founder Sarah Parkhurst and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay, each episode focuses on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum. Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges, as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms. You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time. Please know you're not alone on this journey. We're here to help.