Introduction to Narcissism Series Part 2

Speaker 1 0:10

hey guys , welcome back to preview lions podcast . This is sarah and I'm here with whitney . Hey friends , whitney , we're in our narcissisms kind of series talking about , um , what is a narcissist , some techniques they may use on you , situations , and I will preface this If you guys have missed our first episode , go back to it . It's Narcissism Talks , part 1 , and this is Part 2 . So , whitney , we have kind of covered narcissists a little bit , kind of about who they are , what they do and really specific things that narcissists do is they manipulate , they gaslight and they control .

Speaker 2 0:48

Absolutely .

Speaker 1 0:49

Gaslighting is again a term that you know . I even like . I heard a teenager the other day be like that was so gaslighting of him . I was like , do you even know what that means ? And then I questioned myself do I even know what that means ?

Speaker 3 1:01

If a teenager is using it , so you gaslight yourself .

Speaker 1 1:08

That mean so you gaslight yourself , exactly so , whitney , breakdown what is gaslighting and kind of denial and essentially making you question what is reality , like the teenager

Understanding Gaslighting and Manipulation

Speaker 1 1:14

did to me .

Speaker 2 1:15

So gaslighting is when someone makes a statement to you that undermines your knowledge or your capabilities and your confidence in something , or it is what we call like that backhanded compliment . So it could be , sarah , that pink dress is so pretty on you . It would look so much better if you actually , you know , brushed your hair a little yeah , you're like wait what , yeah ?

Speaker 2 1:40

and you're kind of taken aback Like what , what was just said to me ? And like you are then second guessing yourself . And you know , as humans , like we're going to second guess ourselves , Like I might be like did I lock the front door this morning , sit there and be like did I do what I think I did ? That's normal . That is not self-gaslighting . Okay , that is your brain trying to make sure we can check that off the to-do list . But self-gaslighting is when you're over there , like do I really know this ? Am I as confident about this as I thought I was ? And chances are that second guessing is coming from an external source .

Speaker 1 2:26

Right , because I mean , typical situation that I've been in is a comment was said to me that was extreme and I confronted that person about that comment and even a third party who witnessed the comment that that person said . And they said that doesn't happen . I didn't say that . You're imagining that , you're overreacting , you're twisting my words , you're remembering it wrong . I mean , you're crazy if you think I would say that and it was one of those situations that that was the first really me thinking wow

Real-Life Gaslighting Experience

Speaker 1 3:02

. And what this person said to me and I'll just share it , it was my father-in-law , who everybody knows now is a narcissist , but he said that we were fixing to travel abroad and he told me in front of my husband and my children at a first watch , eating pancakes , I mean of all places , said women like you , you would be stonedoned , like you were going to be stoned when we traveled abroad . Fantastic , love that .

Speaker 1 3:27

And then , when confronted , pure never said that and basically accused us and I was like and before there had been incidences with this man of , I mean in front of my whole extended family and we had eight people at the table going he did say that and he definitively was like no , no , no , no , no To other third parties who weren't there , who are going . Well , he never said that . And it's like eight people hear something and he says he didn't do it Right .

Speaker 2 3:59

Yeah , it's wild . Yeah , the overreacting . That is like clutch gaslighting and you're mixing my words up or you're putting words in my mouth .

Speaker 3 4:11

Uh-huh .

Speaker 2 4:12

And here's one that's kind of like on the line . It's a delicate balance of I didn't mean it that way , because sometimes we say something or we type or we post something and it comes across the way that we didn't intend for it to . So if we have a genuine apology of Sarah , I'm really sorry , that's not . That's not how I meant for my text to come across . Can I explain to you what I meant ? Yeah , genuine apology . And more often than not , you can figure out if someone is authentic . A narcissist will say well , you took it the wrong way . Not , that's not what I meant , you took it the wrong way . So there is a lot of blame to be placed on the other person , no accountability , or or sometimes you might get the backhanded apology of well , I'm sorry that what I did upset you , but if you hadn't done this , I wouldn't have done that . So they justify their behaviors .

Speaker 1 5:07

Does the blame shifting , the playing the victim ? I mean because then the responses turn to well , I wouldn't have said that if she wouldn't have done this . Or why does she always make me the bad guy ? Right , you're being selfish for bringing this up . You never appreciate anything I do . Well , you made me angry , mm-hmm . So again it's that cycle of you're questioning reality . Right , they will blame shift on you . They play the victim

Patterns of Narcissistic Behavior

Speaker 1 5:36

and the next one that happens , dismissing and minimizing your feelings .

Speaker 2 5:42

Oh , a thousand percent , they're going to do that .

Speaker 1 5:44

Whitney , you need to take a joke . You're being dramatic .

Speaker 3 5:47

It's really not that big of a deal .

Speaker 1 5:49

Yep Calm down . Or that backhanded compliment that you need to lose weight . Well , I'm just trying to help you , honey you know it's like and you're going .

Speaker 2 5:58

Someone needed to tell you now . That would be an aunt brenda , you're making .

Speaker 1 6:02

What did they say ? A mountain out of a molehill . You know it's like um am I , though ? And then it goes back to the root of this gaslighting is . What are they trying to do ? Control and manipulate .

Speaker 2 6:16

Absolutely . And so for that , for anybody that feels like they've experienced gaslighting , whether they think the person is a narcissist or not , if you feel like you have experienced gaslighting or manipulation , a good book is the Gaslighting Recovery Workbook . It says how to recognize manipulation , overcome narcissistic abuse , let go and heal from toxic relationships . So again , gaslighting Recovery Book fantastic book because it can help you figure out did I experience gaslighting ? And then help you heal from it .

Speaker 1 6:53

Do you see people who ? Is it usually just like one experience of gaslighting , or is it like a years of life , Like , do you see it's more like this is a pattern ?

Speaker 2 7:04

Yes , it is patterns , because that is one way that you know that someone is more narcissistic , versus like they just put their foot in their mouth because at some point we all unintentionally gaslight . So the best example I know to think of , at least in the South , is you go to a funeral and someone is mourning the loss of their loved one and then someone says , oh , but honey , they're in a better place . Mind you , we know that they mean well , we understand that that still undermines somebody's grief feelings , so that's an involuntary gaslight . I don't think someone is being narcissistic or abusive in that situation . Highly unlikely , you know , and especially here in the South , with religion being as strong and as prominent as it is , you're going to hear that , well , they're in a better place now , or God needed them more than we did , things like that . And again , I don't want to disagree that that person's in heaven , but be with that person in their grief , right .

Speaker 2 8:09

Like we don't want to unintentionally gaslight . When we look at a narcissist or antisocial personality disorder and even borderline personality disorder , we see those themes or patterns throughout their life of this is how they speak to other people and you start thinking , yeah , and it's one of those like I often see people kind of sit back and I can see the wheels turning in their head and I'll even say what are you thinking about ? And they're like is this normal ? Is this how a parent or a coach or a boss or a friend is supposed to treat me ? And that's when I can say not really . Not a few have noticed this in and out of years .

Speaker 1 8:52

Not a one , not a one situation , because it leads to then , usually right in this cycle of where we're at , then they love bomb and then they fake apology . So then you almost well , whitney , you know no one will ever love you like I do , right , even though I said this horrible thing to you , or I promise I'll change Whitney , or let's forget that ever happened .

Speaker 2 9:15

Let's just move on . It's not a big deal we put under the rug .

Speaker 1 9:19

It's not that big of a deal Things of that nature , or I'm sorry you feel that way , which is not an apology . Right , that's not an apology . It's just saying I'm sorry you feel that way , whitney .

Speaker 2 9:28

Right , but also in the way that they say it , there's no empathy . Again . Coming back to that empathy because you know what . I could send you a text and it hurts your feelings and that was not my intention . I can come to you and be like Sarah , I'm really sorry , I upset you . I'm sorry that you feel that way . That's not what I meant by the text . Can I give some clarification to it ? Can we talk about this ? So , in that , I'm trying to validate that you're hurt , but I'm also taking responsibility that I caused the hurt , even if it's involuntary .

Speaker 1 10:02

And that's a huge thing . So it is the keys we're pulling out . So what do you do if you constantly

Protecting Yourself From Gaslighting

Speaker 1 10:09

are hearing this ? How do you protect yourself in these situations ? How do you advise your clients to say okay . So this person always gaslights me Like they have my whole entire life . I'm , you know , my boss . I have to . Or it's my boss , or it's my sister-in-law , you know , and I have to see her . I have to be at this place , right ?

Speaker 2 10:28

So with that you can be very selective in the information you give , and that's okay , that is a boundary . And again , that's a boundary we don't have to announce , we don't have to say I'm not giving you that information , it's . We just don't tell them everything . Maybe we go into a need to know basis . Now your boss is a little bit harder because chances are they micromanage you . So with that , as best you can which now everybody has a different work setup and space and things of that nature it is where you clock in and you clock out , like you keep to yourself or keep away from them as much as possible . If you do have trusted coworkers , trusted keyword there that you can go and hang out with , do that so you're not isolated at work , because again that isolation is a narcissist tactic .

Speaker 1 11:26

They can get you alone , you know it's like a predatory you know thing and I think say , if it's the sister-in-law , you know you're going to that family barbecue , you can make a pass . Oh , I got to fill up my drink , you know . And don't get alone with them or stick with them , or , you know , don't share about your struggles , don't share about the things you know we've talked about before like you know , you've got the bleacher people , you got the people in the huddle with you .

Speaker 1 11:54

Those people need to be the bleachers Like . They can see what's going on in your life . They don't need to know be in the huddle to know I mean , we don't you know they can be on TV watching you for that point .

Speaker 2 11:58

They can be at a distance , and that is what you want .

Speaker 1 12:02

Do you go back and say you're gaslighting , or do you just stand back ? You just don't argue , just kind of just gray rocket , kind of don't say anything . Stay calm , Like which way do you go with it ?

Speaker 2 12:12

I mean , if we're talking about a boss and you say , don't gaslight me , you're probably going to lose your job .

Speaker 1 12:19

HR is going to be called .

Speaker 2 12:20

Right . It's going to go poorly is what I would assume . You have to figure out if it's worth that risk . Is it worth it ? Could you be okay if you got fired on the spot and had to go look for a job ? Financially , could you do it ? Or is it one of those on the sly ? You're looking for another job to get out ? Yeah , which .

Speaker 1 12:43

I would do that If it's a friend or a family member , does it ever generally work well to call it out ?

Speaker 2 12:50

It depends . That's another one where you know , let's just say Aunt Brenda , because she's such a good example .

Speaker 1 12:56

She's our go-to .

Speaker 2 12:58

She is . And so if Aunt Brenda comes to me and she's like Whitney , that dress is so pretty on you , I just you know you could have done a little bit better with your accessories , or know if you would just lose an extra five pounds , it would just be perfect on you . That's when I would say , yeah , brenda , that's not needed . So again , I'm not necessarily saying gaslighting me , but I'm going to say that's not needed , yeah and disengage either that or I just turn and walk away , because no response is a response .

Speaker 1 13:32

Yeah , and that's you having control over the situation .

Speaker 3 13:36

Absolutely .

Speaker 1 13:37

I mean only things we can honestly control . Right is our response Right . We cannot control someone else , but we can control how we respond to them .

Speaker 2 13:47

Absolutely .

Speaker 1 13:49

What is ? You know , I guess , this triangulation ? We've talked about it before in several podcasts back . But what is that ?

Speaker 2 13:59

All right . So triangulation is when you've got your narcissist and then the other person who's the recipient of it , they're having their little squabble . Well , then there's a neutral person who's also

Finding Support and Resources

Speaker 2 14:11

a mutual acquaintance , so they know both people . Narcissist goes to this middleman and says well , mary , sue said blah , blah , blah , blah . And it really upset me and it would be great if you could go tell them this on my behalf . So they find neutral party over here , puts them in the middle to do their dirty work for them . And there we have a lot of guilt tripping too . You have guilt tripping for the recipient and your neutral party .

Speaker 1 14:43

So truly making that triangle of communication instead of just directly going to you , we're involving someone else . Okay , perfect . Well , whitney , we have covered a lot of topics here and I know it's a lot for people to digest , so we will be back with more , because I think this is just a constant topic . That we just need to talk about again is recognizing things in our childhood , in our life , the personalities we're dealing with , and all of this comes back . If you are dealing with being gaslit or if you are having narcissists in your life and you're struggling from maternal mental health , you're struggling with anxiety , depression . That's just going to make that worse .

Speaker 2 15:21

Absolutely .

Speaker 1 15:23

Absolutely .

Speaker 1 15:23

So , again , psychology today is a great place to find a provider . You can search and see what insurance they take , what their specialties are , and you can always check in and kind of just have that first consult with them and say , hey , what do you specialize in ? See if it rings any bells or they will have usually some kind of description . Some have videos that says who they are and find the right fit . But don't work through these issues alone . Have a professional help you through this . And we really again , guys , we appreciate you taking time every week listening to us and it's an honor for us .

Speaker 2 15:59

Absolutely . We appreciate that , guys .

Speaker 1 16:02

All right , we'll be back next week and have a wonderful week .

Speaker 3 16:06

See ya , maternal mental health is as important as physical health . The Preview Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables , like anxiety , anger and even apathy . Hosted by CEO founder Sarah Parkhurst and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay , each episode focuses on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum . Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges , as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms . You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time . Please know you're not alone on this journey . We're here to help .