Previa Alliance Podcast
There are few experiences as universal to human existence as pregnancy and childbirth, and yet its most difficult parts — perinatal mood and anxiety disorders (PMADs) — are still dealt with in the shadows, shrouded in stigma. The fact is 1 in 5 new and expecting birthing people will experience a PMAD, yet among those who do many are afraid to talk about it, some are not even aware they’re experiencing one, and others don’t know where to turn for help. The fact is, when someone suffers from a maternal mental health disorder it affects not only them, their babies, partners, and families - it impacts our communities.
In the Previa Alliance Podcast series, Sarah Parkhurst and Whitney Gay are giving air to a vastly untapped topic by creating a space for their guests — including survivors of PMADs and healthcare professionals in maternal mental health — to share their experiences and expertise openly. And in doing so, Sarah and Whitney make it easy to dig deep and get real about the facts of perinatal mental health, fostering discussions about the raw realities of motherhood. Not only will Previa Alliance Podcast listeners walk away from each episode with a sense of belonging, they’ll also be armed with evidence-based tools for healing, coping mechanisms, and the language to identify the signs and symptoms of PMADs — the necessary first steps in a path to treatment. The Previa Alliance Podcast series is intended for anyone considering pregnancy, currently pregnant, and postpartum as well as the families and communities who support them.
Sarah Parkhurst
Previa Alliance Podcast Co-host; Founder & CEO of Previa Alliance
A postpartum depression survivor and mom to two boys, Sarah is on a mission to destigmatize the experiences of perinatal mood and anxiety disorders (PMADs), and to educate the world on the complex reality of being a mom. Sarah has been working tirelessly to bring to light the experiences of women who have not only suffered a maternal mental health crisis but who have survived it and rebuilt their lives. By empowering women to share their own experiences, by sharing expert advice and trusted resources, and by advocating for health care providers and employers to provide support for these women and their families, Sarah believes as a society we can minimize the impact of the current maternal mental health crisis, while staving off future ones.
Whitney Gay
Previa Alliance Podcast Co-host; licensed clinician and therapist
For the past ten years, Whitney has been committed to helping women heal from the trauma of a postpartum mental health crisis as well as process the grief of a miscarriage or the loss of a baby. She believes that the power of compassion paired with developing critical coping skills helps moms to heal, rebuild, and eventually thrive. In the Previa Alliance Podcast series, Whitney not only shares her professional expertise, but also her own personal experiences of motherhood and recovery from grief.
Follow us on Instagram @Previa.Alliance
Previa Alliance Podcast
Tactics for Navigating the Narcissist in Your Life - Part 2
From love bombing, gaslighting, manipulation, and denial if you have ever interacted with a narcissist, you have encountered the above tactics. In today’s part 2 episode Sarah and Whitney talk about common phrases or traits of a narcissist and how to set boundaries and respond.
hey guys, welcome back to preview lions podcast. This is sarah and I'm here with whitney. Hey friends, whitney, we're in our narcissisms kind of series talking about, um, what is a narcissist, some techniques they may use on you, situations, and I will preface this If you guys have missed our first episode, go back to it. It's Narcissism Talks, part 1, and this is Part 2. So, whitney, we have kind of covered narcissists a little bit, kind of about who they are, what they do and really specific things that narcissists do is they manipulate, they gaslight and they control.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Gaslighting is again a term that you know. I even like. I heard a teenager the other day be like that was so gaslighting of him. I was like, do you even know what that means? And then I questioned myself do I even know what that means?
Speaker 3:If a teenager is using it, so you gaslight yourself.
Speaker 1:That mean so you gaslight yourself, exactly so, whitney, breakdown what is gaslighting and kind of denial and essentially making you question what is reality, like the teenager did to me.
Speaker 2:So gaslighting is when someone makes a statement to you that undermines your knowledge or your capabilities and your confidence in something, or it is what we call like that backhanded compliment. So it could be, sarah, that pink dress is so pretty on you. It would look so much better if you actually, you know, brushed your hair a little yeah, you're like wait what, yeah?
Speaker 2:and you're kind of taken aback Like what, what was just said to me? And like you are then second guessing yourself. And you know, as humans, like we're going to second guess ourselves, Like I might be like did I lock the front door this morning, sit there and be like did I do what I think I did? That's normal. That is not self-gaslighting. Okay, that is your brain trying to make sure we can check that off the to-do list. But self-gaslighting is when you're over there, like do I really know this? Am I as confident about this as I thought I was? And chances are that second guessing is coming from an external source.
Speaker 1:Right, because I mean, typical situation that I've been in is a comment was said to me that was extreme and I confronted that person about that comment and even a third party who witnessed the comment that that person said. And they said that doesn't happen. I didn't say that. You're imagining that, you're overreacting, you're twisting my words, you're remembering it wrong. I mean, you're crazy if you think I would say that and it was one of those situations that that was the first really me thinking wow. And what this person said to me and I'll just share it, it was my father-in-law, who everybody knows now is a narcissist, but he said that we were fixing to travel abroad and he told me in front of my husband and my children at a first watch, eating pancakes, I mean of all places, said women like you, you would be stonedoned, like you were going to be stoned when we traveled abroad. Fantastic, love that.
Speaker 1:And then, when confronted, pure never said that and basically accused us and I was like and before there had been incidences with this man of, I mean in front of my whole extended family and we had eight people at the table going he did say that and he definitively was like no, no, no, no, no To other third parties who weren't there, who are going. Well, he never said that. And it's like eight people hear something and he says he didn't do it Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's wild. Yeah, the overreacting. That is like clutch gaslighting and you're mixing my words up or you're putting words in my mouth.
Speaker 3:Uh-huh.
Speaker 2:And here's one that's kind of like on the line. It's a delicate balance of I didn't mean it that way, because sometimes we say something or we type or we post something and it comes across the way that we didn't intend for it to. So if we have a genuine apology of Sarah, I'm really sorry, that's not. That's not how I meant for my text to come across. Can I explain to you what I meant? Yeah, genuine apology. And more often than not, you can figure out if someone is authentic. A narcissist will say well, you took it the wrong way. Not, that's not what I meant, you took it the wrong way. So there is a lot of blame to be placed on the other person, no accountability, or or sometimes you might get the backhanded apology of well, I'm sorry that what I did upset you, but if you hadn't done this, I wouldn't have done that. So they justify their behaviors.
Speaker 1:Does the blame shifting, the playing the victim? I mean because then the responses turn to well, I wouldn't have said that if she wouldn't have done this. Or why does she always make me the bad guy? Right, you're being selfish for bringing this up. You never appreciate anything I do. Well, you made me angry, mm-hmm. So again it's that cycle of you're questioning reality. Right, they will blame shift on you. They play the victim and the next one that happens, dismissing and minimizing your feelings.
Speaker 2:Oh, a thousand percent, they're going to do that.
Speaker 1:Whitney, you need to take a joke. You're being dramatic.
Speaker 3:It's really not that big of a deal.
Speaker 1:Yep Calm down. Or that backhanded compliment that you need to lose weight. Well, I'm just trying to help you, honey you know it's like and you're going.
Speaker 2:Someone needed to tell you now. That would be an aunt brenda, you're making.
Speaker 1:What did they say? A mountain out of a molehill. You know it's like um am I, though? And then it goes back to the root of this gaslighting is. What are they trying to do? Control and manipulate.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And so for that, for anybody that feels like they've experienced gaslighting, whether they think the person is a narcissist or not, if you feel like you have experienced gaslighting or manipulation, a good book is the Gaslighting Recovery Workbook. It says how to recognize manipulation, overcome narcissistic abuse, let go and heal from toxic relationships. So again, gaslighting Recovery Book fantastic book because it can help you figure out did I experience gaslighting? And then help you heal from it.
Speaker 1:Do you see people who? Is it usually just like one experience of gaslighting, or is it like a years of life, Like, do you see it's more like this is a pattern?
Speaker 2:Yes, it is patterns, because that is one way that you know that someone is more narcissistic, versus like they just put their foot in their mouth because at some point we all unintentionally gaslight. So the best example I know to think of, at least in the South, is you go to a funeral and someone is mourning the loss of their loved one and then someone says, oh, but honey, they're in a better place. Mind you, we know that they mean well, we understand that that still undermines somebody's grief feelings, so that's an involuntary gaslight. I don't think someone is being narcissistic or abusive in that situation. Highly unlikely, you know, and especially here in the South, with religion being as strong and as prominent as it is, you're going to hear that, well, they're in a better place now, or God needed them more than we did, things like that. And again, I don't want to disagree that that person's in heaven, but be with that person in their grief, right.
Speaker 2:Like we don't want to unintentionally gaslight. When we look at a narcissist or antisocial personality disorder and even borderline personality disorder, we see those themes or patterns throughout their life of this is how they speak to other people and you start thinking, yeah, and it's one of those like I often see people kind of sit back and I can see the wheels turning in their head and I'll even say what are you thinking about? And they're like is this normal? Is this how a parent or a coach or a boss or a friend is supposed to treat me? And that's when I can say not really. Not a few have noticed this in and out of years.
Speaker 1:Not a one, not a one situation, because it leads to then, usually right in this cycle of where we're at, then they love bomb and then they fake apology. So then you almost well, whitney, you know no one will ever love you like I do, right, even though I said this horrible thing to you, or I promise I'll change Whitney, or let's forget that ever happened.
Speaker 2:Let's just move on. It's not a big deal we put under the rug.
Speaker 1:It's not that big of a deal Things of that nature, or I'm sorry you feel that way, which is not an apology. Right, that's not an apology. It's just saying I'm sorry you feel that way, whitney.
Speaker 2:Right, but also in the way that they say it, there's no empathy. Again. Coming back to that empathy because you know what. I could send you a text and it hurts your feelings and that was not my intention. I can come to you and be like Sarah, I'm really sorry, I upset you. I'm sorry that you feel that way. That's not what I meant by the text. Can I give some clarification to it? Can we talk about this? So, in that, I'm trying to validate that you're hurt, but I'm also taking responsibility that I caused the hurt, even if it's involuntary.
Speaker 1:And that's a huge thing. So it is the keys we're pulling out. So what do you do if you constantly are hearing this? How do you protect yourself in these situations? How do you advise your clients to say okay. So this person always gaslights me Like they have my whole entire life. I'm, you know, my boss. I have to. Or it's my boss, or it's my sister-in-law, you know, and I have to see her. I have to be at this place, right?
Speaker 2:So with that you can be very selective in the information you give, and that's okay, that is a boundary. And again, that's a boundary we don't have to announce, we don't have to say I'm not giving you that information, it's. We just don't tell them everything. Maybe we go into a need to know basis. Now your boss is a little bit harder because chances are they micromanage you. So with that, as best you can which now everybody has a different work setup and space and things of that nature it is where you clock in and you clock out, like you keep to yourself or keep away from them as much as possible. If you do have trusted coworkers, trusted keyword there that you can go and hang out with, do that so you're not isolated at work, because again that isolation is a narcissist tactic.
Speaker 1:They can get you alone, you know it's like a predatory you know thing and I think say, if it's the sister-in-law, you know you're going to that family barbecue, you can make a pass. Oh, I got to fill up my drink, you know. And don't get alone with them or stick with them, or, you know, don't share about your struggles, don't share about the things you know we've talked about before like you know, you've got the bleacher people, you got the people in the huddle with you.
Speaker 1:Those people need to be the bleachers Like. They can see what's going on in your life. They don't need to know be in the huddle to know I mean, we don't you know they can be on TV watching you for that point.
Speaker 2:They can be at a distance, and that is what you want.
Speaker 1:Do you go back and say you're gaslighting, or do you just stand back? You just don't argue, just kind of just gray rocket, kind of don't say anything. Stay calm, Like which way do you go with it?
Speaker 2:I mean, if we're talking about a boss and you say, don't gaslight me, you're probably going to lose your job.
Speaker 1:HR is going to be called.
Speaker 2:Right. It's going to go poorly is what I would assume. You have to figure out if it's worth that risk. Is it worth it? Could you be okay if you got fired on the spot and had to go look for a job? Financially, could you do it? Or is it one of those on the sly? You're looking for another job to get out? Yeah, which.
Speaker 1:I would do that If it's a friend or a family member, does it ever generally work well to call it out?
Speaker 2:It depends. That's another one where you know, let's just say Aunt Brenda, because she's such a good example.
Speaker 1:She's our go-to.
Speaker 2:She is. And so if Aunt Brenda comes to me and she's like Whitney, that dress is so pretty on you, I just you know you could have done a little bit better with your accessories, or know if you would just lose an extra five pounds, it would just be perfect on you. That's when I would say, yeah, brenda, that's not needed. So again, I'm not necessarily saying gaslighting me, but I'm going to say that's not needed, yeah and disengage either that or I just turn and walk away, because no response is a response.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's you having control over the situation.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:I mean only things we can honestly control. Right is our response Right. We cannot control someone else, but we can control how we respond to them.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:What is? You know, I guess, this triangulation? We've talked about it before in several podcasts back. But what is that?
Speaker 2:All right. So triangulation is when you've got your narcissist and then the other person who's the recipient of it, they're having their little squabble. Well, then there's a neutral person who's also a mutual acquaintance, so they know both people. Narcissist goes to this middleman and says well, mary, sue said blah, blah, blah, blah. And it really upset me and it would be great if you could go tell them this on my behalf. So they find neutral party over here, puts them in the middle to do their dirty work for them. And there we have a lot of guilt tripping too. You have guilt tripping for the recipient and your neutral party.
Speaker 1:So truly making that triangle of communication instead of just directly going to you, we're involving someone else. Okay, perfect. Well, whitney, we have covered a lot of topics here and I know it's a lot for people to digest, so we will be back with more, because I think this is just a constant topic. That we just need to talk about again is recognizing things in our childhood, in our life, the personalities we're dealing with, and all of this comes back. If you are dealing with being gaslit or if you are having narcissists in your life and you're struggling from maternal mental health, you're struggling with anxiety, depression. That's just going to make that worse.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:So, again, psychology today is a great place to find a provider. You can search and see what insurance they take, what their specialties are, and you can always check in and kind of just have that first consult with them and say, hey, what do you specialize in? See if it rings any bells or they will have usually some kind of description. Some have videos that says who they are and find the right fit. But don't work through these issues alone. Have a professional help you through this. And we really again, guys, we appreciate you taking time every week listening to us and it's an honor for us.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. We appreciate that, guys.
Speaker 1:All right, we'll be back next week and have a wonderful week.
Speaker 3:See ya, maternal mental health is as important as physical health. The Preview Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables, like anxiety, anger and even apathy. Hosted by CEO founder Sarah Parkhurst and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay, each episode focuses on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum. Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges, as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms. You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time. Please know you're not alone on this journey. We're here to help.