Speaker 1: 0:10

Hi guys, welcome back to the Preview Alliance podcast. I am so excited we have survived summer Yay. For us parents, summer can feel like a marathon that is hot and never ends. But we are back to school time and I have brought back our favorite. She's a mother, she's a grandmother, she's a teacher, she's an educator, she's a founder and she is our guru on everything from reading to teachers to education. Pam, welcome back.

Speaker 2: 0:36

Thanks so much for having me. I love talking to you and to your audience, so thanks.

Speaker 1: 0:41

Well, we, as I said, are back to school and offline guys. I love Pam, I've adopted Pam and I've shared my woes with Pam. So full discretion. This episode is just as much for me as it is for you guys. And what the title says is we promise not to believe everything that our kids say about you. If you promise not to believe everything our kids say about us, referring to our children and teachers. So, pam, let's just dive in and let's get to it. So our kid says something to us about the teacher, about something at school. We finally get them to bed. We've pulled ourself up, we got our laptop, we're firing up an email.

Speaker 2: 1:20

Oh, what do we do? Well, I mean, this is it? Because the other thing is, maybe the main thing is, what happens at night to a parent's mind is wild. I mean, everything's worse at night. You are reviewing the day, thinking of that absolutely beautiful face of your child and if there was something hard that happened during the day, that is going to be what keeps you up at night. I can tell you, I feel it with all the ache and beauty of it, is within me too. So everybody listening just know that I'm there with you, like both as a parent and now as a caregiving grandparent, like it hurts.

Speaker 2: 1:59

It's just when you hear something a child is saying or something you're observing. I think for me that is why I never send an email to a teacher at night, because at night your emotions are just really intense and I think there's something about. Maybe you know, for all of us but just thinking about like the workday is really busy or if you're with your kids at home, that's hugely busy, no matter where you are. You're just racing, running going. Your kid says something to you that doesn't feel good about what happened at school. You're just like holding that until the nightfall and then you're lying awake with your mind racing and you grab your computer and you want to say everything you need to say. So my advice for that is, like write it all down. Think about yourself. And why did that feel hard to hear that? What was it that your child happened to say? Maybe it was about feeling left out socially. Maybe it was about he couldn't something academically it felt hard to read, or he felt embarrassed to read at school, or maybe something the teacher said I would definitely write it down, like put it in a Google doc and think about, like, what would be the outcome you want in sending an email. If that's feeling important and you should never not send an email that you feel is important I would never stop you from that, because you have every right to do that and also to be in good communication with your child's teacher.

Speaker 2: 3:21

If it's something that feels like you need to say it before the next morning, like my child has been resistant in going to school or says to me I don't like how I feel when I first get to school, then of course you want to send that email first thing in the morning. You know, get up early, set your alarm for like an hour earlier than usual, read through the email, say is this what I really want to say and how I want to say it, and then send it because I don't want to stop you if there's something urgent. Or you know you might be wondering why my kid is wearing two different sneakers today. He feels convinced that his feet hurt otherwise. Obviously you want to want to do that, but I think that that email where you're having a concern, if it feels really heavy, like something like that, makes me feel like I have a concern about the teacher, then you can also, in an email, not write a lot, but you can say I have a concern. It's important for me to share in a time sensitive manner. Can you share with me 10 minutes at the end of the school day or during a break, remembering that teachers don't have many breaks and those that they have are sometimes circumscribed by they have to do professional development or they have to meet with a principal or another colleague, talk about curriculum.

Speaker 2: 4:33

But I think for me, I realized, as you know, raising my kids and now helping to raise our grandchildren, that the nights are bad for me, like I, even when things are going great, like I'm still just like running over and over something in my mind. So that might be you too. And if that is you, then all those are still authentic, valid thoughts. I think I have very good instincts about children. So I do feel that way about myself, like I'm not making things up, I'm not overly cautious, but I think don't send any emails at night. I think that's just one thing. And then the second thing is sometimes I'll write like a really long email to a teacher you know, saying I feel like you know, my child seems so shy at school, but at home she's not shy at all. She talks so much and I just don't know why she doesn't seem to be very participatory or why that's what she's communicating to me. You can definitely write that all down because that actually could be maybe not so much what goes in an email, but what goes in your discussion and notes for a discussion with your child's teacher that you might fly out of your mind by like the week you get the meeting.

Speaker 2: 5:40

But I am a big believer in face-to-face meetings and if it has to be on Zoom I know post-COVID everything seems to be on Zoom, but lately and maybe this is something to say, think about all of us is like. Lately I've been thinking why does everything have to be on Zoom? In fact, I just wrote to an administrator whom I really like and trust and respect and want to get his feedback on something. I would have just said can you spare 30 minutes for Zoom? You know I deleted that and I actually said I would love to just come in and meet with you and talk and he wrote back in like two minutes saying I would love that and I think teachers are busy. But I think that asking for an actual face-to-face meeting feels really important and it also you deserve it. You have every right to it and you should not ever feel like you're going to make the teacher angry or something. I think just simply to say I really appreciate your time. There's something weighing on me heavily. I would like to come in and take 30 minutes or 20 minutes of your time, even 15 minutes, and it would just be great to sit down together, because the sitting down together changes everything.

Speaker 2: 6:44

You see the sort of texture of that person and I remember once my daughter, charlotte she was talking a lot about a teacher in a particular grade that she felt like the teacher was yelling a lot at the kids that there was a lot of yelling happening.

Speaker 2: 6:58

That's like something that was really weighing on me because that I know that that was very sensitive for her and I thought about it a million different ways and kept writing all these emails and I'm an educator so I was like some of them are like as an educator and I was like that's no good, like she's never gonna like that.

Speaker 2: 7:13

And then I just calmed down and I asked for the meeting and I hadn't met her yet it was just at the beginning of the year and I went in and I just looked at her and I realized she is so young and I know some of those kids in that class from prior years are very rambunctious and I just I felt the conversation went so much better than it would have gone from an email because I just saw in front of me the person I was actually talking to in a human way and it was really a productive meeting. We can talk more about how to have those difficult meetings, if you like, but it was just. I thought this never would have happened this way if we weren't in person.

Speaker 1: 7:54

And so now let's say, good relay to this, we're in person, we'll meet the teacher, we get five minutes right. You sign up to get your five minute slot. How is it best, as a parent, to meet that teacher? Establish that groundwork there. And it's important to show face. And how do you form that relationship? Start now, through the school year.

Speaker 2: 8:16

That is such an amazing question and I have two thoughts, main thoughts, on that. One is that remember that truly, truly, truly, you know your child better than anybody on this planet. That's your secret sauce, that's your magic, that's the gift that you're actually going to potentially give to this teacher. You know that child in the most unbelievably deep and complex way. So one is to enter into that meeting with maybe something the teacher doesn't know about your child, even a passion or an interest. As simple as that sounds, it gives them something to hang their hat on.

Speaker 2: 8:54

If your child's having trouble at school or if there's a tender moment is to be able to say, like you know, she remembers that you said at home, your child plays, dress up for hours on end or just loves creative play or loves to build Legos. These are things that the teacher especially, I'm sad to say, where play goes away as the children get a little bit older, something for them to remember, because even in a tender moment or where there's other things happening, there might be a box of Legos in the back of the room that could be brought out more easily and more quickly, but also just an essence of the child that you convey even in one sentence, you could have it ready. You know, that might just remind this teacher that this is an amazing person at home. So one is just to give the teacher a little something that they don't have about your child, just from being in a group of 20, 25 kids even. The second thing is the other thing that you can say that will never go wrong for you is your observations at home.

Speaker 2: 9:56

And so for me, what I recommend to parents is always frame what you're saying to teachers as an observation, because the challenges for us loving parents and everyone here listening, is that person is that we're not there. So it makes us even more anxious because we're like what is happening at 12 pm or at 11 am? Or is he eating his snack, or he's not eating his snack, is he walking in the hall with somebody that he likes? All of that? So we can't actually comment on all of that. That's the struggle. But what we can say is I'm observing that dot dot dot.

Speaker 2: 10:31

So we can say I'm observing that my child seems anxious when starting the homework. Or I'm observing that my child is really struggling getting up to go to school in the morning. Do you have any suggestions? Or I'm observing that my child really seems to love math, like I never even knew this. And now I'm seeing her, you know, playing with numbers at home in a way I never knew.

Speaker 2: 10:55

So starting in that five minutes with, I'm observing that, or that's the sort of second bucket. The first is something that might be fun to know about my child is, or something that might be important to know that you might not see yet at school is. So those are two things no one can refute you, because you own that, you own the knowledge of your child and you own your observations. And I found over the years, whether it's my own kids or advising my friends with their kids, or just as an educator myself and now with our grandchildren, to just simply say I'm observing that it totally deflects that teacher from feeling like we're attacking her or him, that we're saying I don't really know what happened today, but it was a bad day. It's better to say I'm observing that he seems really exhausted at home and is there something that you've been noticing? So you're inviting the teacher to be an ally with you.

Speaker 1: 11:51

I love that. Now, let's say, you know, back to kind of our title. There's something said about the teacher, right, or a situation at school and you've got that meeting and it feels difficult and it feels uncomfortable and I shared with you. Often it's just like the preschool years. You know they ate their lunch next to their friend Tommy and you know they're playing with the dinosaurs in the sandbox and like you get into grade school and all that goes away and we just have kind of like what our child says or we're observing their behavior, or we get like just scores on a card, right, and we're going in and we feel like we don't know this teacher. We're trying to filter what our kids say, we're filtering our emotions. How do you have that conversation Right?

Speaker 2: 12:35

I mean that's one of those things is like there is a kind of a way in which I want parents to feel like you embrace that feeling of longing, because it is part of going through school and kids getting a little bit older, and like I wish everything stayed dino in the sandbox, because that's like amazing. Stayed dino in the sandbox, because that's like amazing. So one thing is just to recognize your own feelings in that and to embrace them and love them and honor that as your love for your child. I wouldn't even name that as anxiety. I would name that as just an amazing love, you know, and that's worth also if you can even keeping a little journal about it or just writing or thinking or talking about it with your partner, your spouse, your husband, or just writing or thinking or talking about it with your partner, your spouse, your husband, your wife. So that's one thing it's like for yourself. It's like really honor that, because that's just a sign of your amazing bond that you have. That's incredible. But the second part of it is the not so easy part and that, although that's not so easy sometimes either. But what is my relationship with this teacher? The teacher is not giving me a lot of information is not really going into that place of the longing place that I need. One of the things is to a little bit learn school-based language. For some of this so like when the teacher says, wow, your son is doing great, he's reading at grade level, math skills are all A-OK and you're sitting there all you care about, for good reason, is did my kid have anyone to play with at recess today, or is my kid playing at all today? Those are the questions that you can bucket under social emotional learning and you use that language because then they know they have to be responsible for that. Weirdly, teachers I love teachers know they have to be responsible for that. Weirdly, teachers I love teachers. You know I am a teacher, but I think we get into a lot of our own jargon in the school-based work and then when parents come in, they're talking from love-based work and it's almost like we're talking two different languages. So what I say to parents is try to speak the language of school and they may be able to answer you better, so to say look, we've talked a bit about the academics in this parent-teacher meeting and I love it. Thank you so much. Or I'm concerned about it. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2: 14:44

Can we talk more? Can we also take a few minutes to talk about the social-emotional progress that my child is making? What do you observe? What do you see? Can you tell me more about that? Because they have to do that. They learn how to do that. They have to do that, but as the grades go on, they get less good at talking about that themselves because they're under a ton of pressure to pass the test, to have every kid do the test, have every kid to read on grade level or above, and they're under a huge amount of pressure. So you giving them permission because they also think you just want that, even though that's really more what their principal wants. You actually want the social emotional. I'm with you 100%. That cliche like we only just want our kids to be happy is actually not. It's a cliche because it's totally true.

Speaker 2: 15:31

You know what I mean, like I would rather have my kid not be the top in the class and just be the happiest person in the class. I would rather. I think that socially emotional learning is something teachers know how to talk about and they have to step up to be able to do that in a way that's understandable to you. And if they can't, then you can say again do your observation noticing work, like just simply say I'm noticing that he's not talking about friends at school and that might be just. He doesn't need to talk about that at home. So from the social emotional vantage point, can you give me almost a day in the life of my child at school? They will get that and there won't be any negative feeling about that. They actually might really enjoy talking to you about that.

Speaker 1: 16:17

Yeah, and how do you handle or how would you even bring up? They're like Mom, miss so-and-so doesn't like me, so-and-so, yells at me, so-and-so, picks on me or always tells Johnny, he's doing great, I've never got a, you know great. Like, that's touchy right. Because you're like is my kid just making that, or is that true? Do teachers have favoritism? Because we're all human, that's so touchy.

Speaker 2: 16:44

It's so touchy. That's the hardest thing. I think what I'll say and what I've recommended what has worked that both in my work with other parents and also even in my own experience as well is that you can again. You can be in there. Because there are two things I'll say about that. One is I trust children, like when they have feelings about things. That doesn't mean that I'm going to be hostile to the teacher or anything like that, because remember that teacher may be very young and inexperienced, or that teacher may be kind of nearing retirement and not as enthusiastic, and your child is really absorbing that personally. They're not looking and saying, well, johnny also gets yelled at, everyone gets yelled at. They're just thinking that this teacher is at me, which is normal for your child. So one thing is I always trust a child.

Speaker 2: 17:31

When the child tells you something at home, I would not minimize it and I would not amplify it. Keep it right where the child is. So the child says Mrs Smith doesn't like me. Don't say, oh, yes, she does. And don't say, oh, my God, what happened? No, neither of those things. There's a place in the middle where you can actually help coach your child to say, wow, that's a big thing that you're saying Would you like to share more? Or what happened today that you can tell me a little bit more about? Let me think about that. So you're not reacting immediately, you're not reactive and angry and expressing that with your child Because, by the way, this is really good practice for us, because as they get older, these questions get even more severe. Like an eighth grade teacher and I don't mean to scare anyone you'll get better at it and they will. Either your kids will start to really channel it too, because they're getting older also.

Speaker 2: 18:20

But like, for example, you know, a kid in eighth grade would say I hate my teacher, she gives too much homework, or my teacher doesn't like me. My teacher never calls on me, and what I always say to parents is don't stop trusting your child, never stop trusting your child. But you also don't have to be deep in that place. You can simply say I'm listening, I hear what you're saying. I want to really think about that so that you're not reacting with intense emotion. But the other thing is that I think we almost do too much of is minimize it. Oh, you just have to. Well, you do your homework. That's why I was going to the eighth grade model because the parents, the teacher kid will say we have too much homework and the parent's instinct would be to say just do your homework, we've got to get it done.

Speaker 2: 19:04

Your teacher said to pause for a minute on the other side of it to say you know what she might have a point Like, without not supporting the teacher, to say that's interesting, can you say more about that? Like how many minutes is it taking? But for the young child who's saying my teacher doesn't like me, my teacher's mad at me, my teacher's yelling, that's a sensitive child who might be actually picking up on something. And I had this exact situation when one of our kids was in elementary school and I did ask for an in-person meeting because I didn't want to put this into an email. And I went in and I sat down with the teacher, recognizing, when I saw her face to face, how very young she is and how I knew some of those other kids in the class and how rambunctious they were. And what I said was and I hope this is helpful to people what I said to her was what I'm listening to Charlotte saying at home is this and I think her perception is that you're angry with her and I know that's not the what you would intend and I know that. So, like, can we talk about it? And she was like devastated and she said I don't, I never yell at Charlotte, you know. Like I know I have a kind of a tough class. And I said is there you know anything anybody that you can get help? Like bring a social worker in or talk with your principal more. So it felt like we were immediately on the same team. Now is it completely true that she wasn't yelling at Charlotte? I don't know.

Speaker 2: 20:28

But things got a lot better after that, because why I was holding her accountable? I was simply observing, I wasn't judging, I was actually like a researcher trying to get a little more information. And then finally, I think it's like being true to your child, like don't wait on that. If the child's perception is that the teacher doesn't like her or him, then that's worth talking to the teacher about very quickly and simply saying I know you would never intend for this to be the case at all, but right now my child's perception is that and so what can we do together to get past that? And that might actually help the teacher start thinking why am I always giving the gold star to Sam Jones over there when every other kid in the class is sitting there waiting for some kind of affirmation, and that, if it doesn't subside or that doesn't feel like it's changing.

Speaker 2: 21:24

The other thing is, I would say too is like cause. That's, those are serious matters that the child deserves your attention on, and I always say to kids when they tell me something like that, I always say I'm listening and I want to figure out what it will take for you to feel better. So not, your teacher is horrible, which is like, of course, my first thing is like I hate this person. She's making my kid feel bad is now. But it's just simply to say I'm with you 100 percent. I want you to feel better and let's figure this out, because I'm not exactly sure where that's coming from. But let me think about that.

Speaker 2: 21:56

And if the teacher is unreceptive or feels a little cold and detached, you know you always, always have other resources in the school and you have every right to use those resources, because what they're going to ask you is did you talk to your kid's teacher first? And you can then say yes. Then you can say to the social worker school psychologist or the principal. It doesn't feel like it really progressed and I'm struggling and we're not really communicating much. I'm not hearing much from her. I asked her to keep me up to date on this and I'm not hearing from her that often.

Speaker 2: 22:31

The other thing, too, is back to the teacher herself or himself is to when you leave that meeting and like you said earlier, sarah, like you have five to 10 minutes to have this conversation, the last thing you can say in a meeting like that, where you're carrying something heavy, is to say I really appreciate the time you've taken. Can we check in in a week and just to see how things are improving and what would you prefer? The best way for us to be doing that? So it might be a platform the school has. It might be she prefers WhatsApp or a text message. It might be she prefers just to pick up the phone. That would be really nice, but I would say can we touch back in and look at you know, next Thursday? So always have a date set so she knows she has some accountability for things to feel better. If she says no, no, no, I can't do that. Things are.

Speaker 2: 23:19

You have every right to go to the social worker, school psychologist or the principal and say, look, I asked for a follow-up. This feels important to us as a family. It's not feeling great. I feel like people don't use the resources a lot because they feel like, well, that's for kids with really big problems, but they're there to help.

Speaker 2: 23:37

You know, one of my kids, when she was in fifth grade, was suddenly didn't want to go to school at all and it was just shocking because she had loved going to school and we had a little bit of a hard time talking to the teacher about it. And so I did go to the school psychologist and I said I'm really stuck Like I don't know, and she did this amazing thing. She said I'm going to visit the class several times over the next two weeks. I'm not going to say why I'm there. No student is going to know, especially not your daughter that I'm there and then I'm going to report back to you. And it like took the pressure off me to have to go after this again Two weeks time. She called me and she said you know what? Your daughter is really happy at school. Is there something else going on in?

Speaker 2: 24:23

You know we had gotten her to go those couple weeks, and she said let's go start from the very beginning of the day and let's like take the day it turned out she was walking to school and a couple of her little girlfriends were like deciding they'd run up ahead, and she wasn't as brave to be able to do that.

Speaker 2: 24:41

That was giving her anxiety and it wasn't actually happening in the classroom, but it took that school psychologist to uncover that, and I said to my daughter would you like me to drive you to school a couple of days a week for the next few weeks, because it sounds like that is really bothering you? And then that sort of subsided and passed and she went back to walking every day and all was well. But that's actually really an important story in a way, because I really wasn't making headway with the teacher at all, and part of it was because she didn't see anything wrong. Genuinely, sometimes, though, the issue is that she didn't say anything wrong and she might have been wrong about that, in which case the psychologist would have been able to see that.

Speaker 1: 25:20

I love that. Now, pam, before you go, what's some advice for the school year? We're just in it. So what would you tell parents who are like, hey, pam, can you like forever be in our lives and we just talk to you 24-7 and be like what is some takeaways that is actionable, we can do? We feel empowered. I think that's the thing right. We all are grasping for something to do to make this situation feel more comfortable for us and our kids do to make this situation feel more comfortable for us and our kids?

Speaker 2: 25:48

Well, I think that's such an amazing question. I think one is just to really be there for your kids, where they say things that feel confusing and maybe sometimes negative, sometimes positive, if they're unable to articulate much at first when the school year begins, just to be patient and say I just love to hear your stories and I'd love to be here and be a listener for you Sometimes, actually to put a piece of paper and some art supplies in front of them and sit beside them, just quietly, put your phone away, don't be on your phone. Just sit there with them and say I'd love for you to draw what you did today at school, like let them have a snack first, you know, but sometimes that's really interesting just to listen to that and you'll get a very much more textured, layered view of what the school day is. So being by your child's side and not being in a rush after the school day because, wow, I've been on the other side of that and that's an intense day they have. So if they're a little weepy when they get home, or they need to have that extra snack, or they need just you to cuddle with them on the couch and do a read aloud. Just do that.

Speaker 2: 26:46

That's number one. Number two is for the teacher is and this goes the other way too, by the way, when I do teacher trainings on how to talk to parents, it goes this way, which is we tend to only reach out on the one side to the other side when something is not right and we hardly ever think of doing anything that's positive. And I get why. On both ends we're all busy. It's all crazy. But from the parent's side is like if there is a moment where your child just had an amazing day at school, take a minute to do whatever. It is the email or the text message to the teacher to say you know, john had a great day at school today. I want to thank you for making that happen, because I cannot tell you how much people appreciate that. So the positive affirmation for the teacher.

Speaker 2: 27:30

And then the third thing I'd say is when you feel in your gut something's wrong, trust your gut, because you love that child more than anybody. If anybody has a PhD on that child, it's you. And so if a teacher says nothing's the matter, everything's fine, and you still feel like everything's not fine. Trust yourself and with that trust, attempt again to say look, here's what I'm observing at home. Can we set up a meeting face to face? Can we then set up a follow-up meeting face to face or make the follow-up a Zoom? And then the final thing is.

Speaker 2: 28:04

Trusting your gut means and I know this is hard, but trusting your gut is when it really feels like something is still not feeling. Right is to get outside that dynamic of you and the teacher and to go to the other people in the building Because, truthfully, sometimes teachers are not operating to their highest potential and it might be a wake-up call or you might find out yes, six other parents have been struggling too, and that might not be what you would know. So trust your gut, don't be shy, don't worry that someone's not going to like you, because I know parents will often say maybe then they'll take it out on my child. That's inappropriate. That teacher should never be doing that.

Speaker 2: 28:42

And if they are doing that, then there are other people to talk to. But I think those are the three things. One is just be there for your child like, trust them and all of their glory. And two is, you know, be affirmational with your child's teacher when appropriate and when nothing's happening. And three, when problems are there. Trust your gut and be persistent, because the school will try to push that away, because they'll want everyone to just be fine. But you know you might have to take that extra step.

Speaker 1: 29:14

I love that. I think it's so applicable to so many moms, from preschool to high school to college and as we may, and Pam keep doing what you're doing, and it makes me so happy that your voice is here for our listeners and that you're talking to teachers and ultimately we got to have people like you who join both sides, because we all want the same common goal as we want, you know, happy, well-rounded kids who love to read and parents who feel like they're putting off good little children into this world.

Speaker 2: 29:44

Definitely, and I think you guys do that every day, and the work that your listeners are doing is the most important work in the world and we have to be the advocates for those we love the most. And that is hard work. But I think that the friction in that work makes us all closer to each other as a family and I think it's good for schools to feel that power of the parental love.

Speaker 1: 30:08

It's never going away. There are babies. Well, listeners, if you want to know more about Pam we have more episodes I will link those on the podcast notes, and if you want to see what Pam is up to and her different facets of life besides talking to me, I'll link all that as well. Pam, pleasure as always, my friend and listeners, we will be back with you next week, all right, thanks, sarah.

Speaker 2: 30:28

Thanks everyone, Thank you.

Speaker 3: 30:33

Maternal mental health is as important as physical health. The Preview Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables, like anxiety, anger and even apathy. Hosted by CEO founder Sarah Parkhurst and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay, each episode focuses on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum. Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges, as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms. You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time. Please know you're not alone on this journey. We're here to help.