SPEAKER_02: 0:09

Hi guys, welcome back to the Preview Alliance podcast. I've got your super go-to maternal mental health therapist, Miss Whitney, with us, and we're going to get you ready for the holidays. That's right, friends. Let's get prepared. You're probably like, Sarah, I'm going to mute you right now because it's November. But listen, we have to work ahead and be proactive. And the title of our episode, Whitney, is Me, the People Pleaser. Never, not me. Not us. Not us. Not us. No, tell us because people may hear that, right? They may be like, I'm a people pleaser. But what really is a people pleaser?

SPEAKER_00: 0:51

So people pleasing, there's so many roots to it, but often people end up people pleasing because they want to avoid conflict. Maybe they don't really know how to articulate themselves in conflict. Maybe they don't know how to set a boundary. Maybe they truly don't know when they're at capacity for something. So they take things on thinking that's what they're supposed to do. But then they end up drowning in all of these projects or tasks or what have you. I tell my people-pleasing clients often when you people please, you are choosing which conflict. So if you're going to people please a situation, you are avoiding external conflict, but creating internal conflict. Either way, we have a risk of a conflict. We have to figure out which conflict we are more willing to deal with. You know, and it's one of those not all people pleasing can necessarily be bad. So like if I'm running to the store and you say, Hey, Whitney, will you grab me a Diet Coke while you're there? Sure. Like that is just not that big of a deal, right? Because if I said no to you, well, that would kind of cause a little riff because you're like, it's a simple task. Like, what the heck? kind of thing. Again, for me, if I was saying no to that, like, am I being spiteful? Like, what would be my purpose in that? No one benefits from that. So, yeah, that would be an easy way to people please is yell at me, grab you whatever it is that you're asking for at the store. Not a big deal, right? But when we look at things like a boss, like oftentimes we do feel like we have to people please with bosses. I'm just as guilty as anybody else in that boat. And we have a hard time figuring out what are the boundaries at work. How do I politely decline? And that is where you can say, I really appreciate you thinking about me for this project or this task, but unfortunately, I am at capacity right now because of X, Y, and Z. Not that we always have to explain ourselves, but especially when it's your boss and they're trying to delegate task. I do think it's important that you say, This is why I am at capacity.

SPEAKER_02: 3:17

Yeah. What about in like, okay, so it's holidays comments, right? What about in family? I think a lot of our listeners feel like they're gonna be hugged at a lot of places. You know, it's like, why am I killing myself or somebody maybe I only see once a year? It may not even be something I want to do. I feel like I have to do. I have a newborn baby, I have a taller, Whitney, like I'm still have work deadlines, those kind of like situations.

SPEAKER_00: 3:42

So for you, you have to weigh out your pros and cons. As simplistic as that may sound, you have to say, does carving out this chunk of time around Thanksgiving or Christmas time or New Year's or what have you, is that worth the effort I'm going to have to go through? So especially if we are looking at you've got a toddler, so we still have a little bit of an app schedule going on. Yeah. They need to eat earlier than adults do. Typically, your toddler's actually gonna eat lunch at 11, not noon or one o'clock. So having Thanksgiving lunch at 1:30, that is not gonna work for a toddler. Absolutely not. So we have to take that into consideration. If you have a young baby, especially if they're like eight weeks and under, and you might have your first rounds of shots on board, you have to figure out how bad is cold and flu season? Do I really want to risk my baby getting exposed to something like that, like RSV? Are people going to respect me when I say, I don't want you kissing my baby? It's cold and flu season. Things like that. We have to weigh out does the effort that I'm going to put into this event worth it? Or is it going to be so much harder for me to do this that I don't need to accept?

SPEAKER_02: 5:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 5:05

And all of this, you just say, I appreciate the invite, but unfortunately, we're just unable to go that day. We have pre-existing plans. They don't have to know what the plan is.

SPEAKER_02: 5:17

And that's where you feel, right? You're like, okay. Because if I go and I'm miserable, the kids melting down, I'm melting down. I'm may already be struggling already, or may not be struggling with anxiety or depression, or I'm not sleeping, or I'm not myself, right? Or I may already have a kind of stressful relationship with this family member to start with on a good day. It's already a challenge. You know, again, it goes back to that conflict that we just talked about. Like you're gonna have that conflict one way or another. And sometimes it is just bite the bullet and hold your boundary and say it's not gonna work for us this year.

SPEAKER_00: 5:56

Right. Right. And I don't know if I've ever talked about this on the podcast before, but Christmas Eve and Christmas Day has always kind of been a marathon for my husband and I. And so we live in the Birmingham area, and his family always gets together at his older brother's house in Trussville. So it's about a 45-minute drive. Not terrible. So we have to be there at lunchtime on Christmas Eve. Well, then we have to drive out another hour to get to my family's. Well, then we would drive back home, try to get our kids to sleep, do Santa, but then by lunch on Christmas Day, we had to be back out to Trustville for his dad's side of the family. I will never forget, and this was actually the year that both of my grandfathers died and his stepdad died. And I know that we've talked about that in the podcast before. So maybe I was emotionally drained because my grandfather had died just a few days before that. So let's keep that into the perspective as well. But I just remember we finally got our kids in bed, and I was putting Santa together, and I just looked at my husband at 11 o'clock at night and I said, This is not sustainable. Yeah, we cannot keep doing this. This is not working. Again, I was also very emotionally tired and drained from all the death that we had had in the family.

SPEAKER_02: 7:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 7:19

But we have changed it since then to where Christmas Eve night we stay with my parents. And even though, yes, we still have the other two family obligations to go to, not having to make that trek back home, do all the things and get ready for Santa too. Like, let's get you girls all excited. Like, let's put out cookies and milk for Santa. We're excited, go to bed. Yeah, it's such an up and down that how on earth are they supposed to calm down from that? Yeah, it's really not sensible. So, but after that, for the past two Christmases, we have stayed with my parents, and that has really taken a lot off of us. Yeah. And so, are we still busy? Absolutely, we are, we thousand percent are. And I was the mom that was so adamant that my kids were gonna wake up in our house on Christmas morning and we did it, we did it, but it didn't come without cost. And at that point, right. So, for us, the cons of doing that outweighed the pros. So I had to bite that bullet myself, I had to scale back because it's more beneficial for me and my family. So now my little family of four, we do our Christmas day on the 23rd. And I send some Santa gifts to my parents' house in advance. That way they get a little bit at our house, they get some at my parents' house, and it just makes it work.

SPEAKER_02: 8:54

Yeah. No, I love that. And do you think, you know, even do you think that people even realize that they're people pleasers? Like, do you even think that your clients would come up and say, Yeah, Whitney, I need to see you today because I did another people pleasing thing?

SPEAKER_00: 9:09

Typically, they don't do that. Most people pleasers don't realize that they're also self-sabotaging.

SPEAKER_02: 9:15

Oh, okay. Tell us more.

SPEAKER_00: 9:18

So when we look at people pleasing, again, we are creating that internal conflict with ourselves. With that, we're actually kind of sending the message to ourselves that our priorities, our wants, our needs are not as important as somebody else's. And when we reinforce that time and time again, that actually becomes a core belief. Yeah. And then that actually impacts our self-worth, believe it or not. So it really does go deeper than we think it does. Now, that being said, it is hard to correct or not people please. But again, there are moments where people pleasing might be appropriate. Like again, if you say, Oh, you're going to the store, will you grab this for me? Sure. Because guess what? That really doesn't take that much more effort on my end. Yeah. That is not a big deal. Yes, I can do that for you. But also on the flip side, that would be reciprocated.

SPEAKER_02: 10:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 10:15

I know that if I were to ask you to the same thing, you'd say yes. So with that, that wouldn't even necessarily be solely people pleasing. Because both people would benefit from it. It is mutual, therefore, not people pleasing.

SPEAKER_02: 10:32

Yeah. Now, what about if they're going a little deeper and they're like, well, I say yes to all these events, or I really don't have time for it, or I say yes at lunch, or I say yes to go do that for the school. Then I said yes to this for my family. And they're like, Well, Whitney, if I say no, they'll exclude me, or they may not like me, or I feel like I'll lose status, or I feel like I won't be in the net, like those kind of things. Cause I hear that from people too. Well, I feel like I can't because X, Y, and Z. And it's like, so what is the core of those people telling us?

SPEAKER_00: 11:07

Well, again, this comes back to a need for acceptance. And honestly, a lot of us do people please to be accepted. That is very, very common. Again, it's like we want to make a good impression.

SPEAKER_02: 11:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 11:21

That kind of thing. So when we look at the initial part of people pleasing, it's like, well, I want this to go well. However, when we continue to people please, when we continue to accept things, when we overbook ourselves, we are actually enabling the other person to keep asking.

SPEAKER_02: 11:42

There's plenty of people that will take advantage of that. They will, especially in the other. And then there's other, or then there's other senses where I think you're just like, that person really know you. And like it's almost like a validation of a relationship. If I was like, hey, Whitney, I know we have lunch, but like I have X, Y, and Z that come up. Let's do a rain check. That would not ruin our relationship. And if it did, that should be alarm bells for me of this person always want me because I'm always available or saying yes. Right.

SPEAKER_00: 12:14

Well, again, it would be mutual. Like if you were to reach out to me and be like, I'm so sorry, one of my kids got sick. Can we postpone doing the podcast until Friday instead of Tuesday? Well, sure. Yeah, let me look at my schedule. We'll put our heads together and figure it out. Because I know, again, rewinding back to when we had all the death in my family. I remember messaging you that my first grandfather died, and you're like, you know what? Let's rain check recording the podcast this week. Take some time.

SPEAKER_02: 12:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 12:42

So again, it's reciprocal, it is mutual. So if you know that the other person would genuinely do this for you, then it's not necessarily people pleasing at the core of I need to be accepted. It is, hey, that person, they bend over backwards for me as well. This is not one-sided. But when it does become one-sided, when you continue to say yes to the PTO at school, when really you don't have time to breathe. Why are you taking on being in charge of the carnival?

SPEAKER_02: 13:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 13:14

Why are you the head honcho for that? That seems like a terrible plan.

SPEAKER_02: 13:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 13:19

You know, like that's the thing too, is people pleasing. We end up burning out pretty quickly. And we can get very resentful and bitter that way.

SPEAKER_01: 13:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 13:31

But also at some point your body is going to make you stop.

SPEAKER_02: 13:35

100%. And you know I love my research.

SPEAKER_00: 13:38

Right. Whether it is that you catch a cold or you get the flu or a stomach bug, or you actually kind of develop a chronic illness like a stomach ulcer or migraines or muscle tension. Like at some point, your body is going to wave a white flag and say, I'm done. I can't do this anymore. You have to stop.

SPEAKER_02: 14:01

No. And that is in it in the season, you know, I pulled up. I was like, there has to be statistics about that. There is. And so the American Psychology Association is saying it's specifically what you're saying, because Whitney's seen in real life. We may or may not have experienced it in our life, too. Is that you get linked to higher anxiety, depression, and lower self-esteem, that chronic people pleasers have a greater risk of burnout and emotional exhaustion. Yeah. Women report higher rates of people pleasing than men, which they relate to our caregiving roles or culture expectations of being nice, of being the caregiver, the homemaker, the super mom who does it all. It said during the holiday specifically, 69% of people report feeling trust. Well, that's kind of a given, right? Right. 51% of women feel the pressure to make holidays perfect compared to only 35% of men. Okay. Goes back to that's us. 41% of adults say they take on more than they can handle during the holiday season. One in three women say they feel guilty when they say no to a holiday invitation or request. 49% of moms report holidays add more to their mental load than any other time of the year. Yes. With the top three stressors being financial strain, family expectation, and social obligation. So everything we're saying is backed of what research tells us and what we're feeling. And if there is some signs of people like, okay, I think this is me. What's some more signs? We love how y'all break down the sides of everything else. What is some more signs of people pleasing?

SPEAKER_00: 15:51

Guilt if you say no.

SPEAKER_02: 15:53

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00: 15:54

You automatically feel like you have let others down and you feel so guilty, um, over explaining yourself for the no.

SPEAKER_01: 16:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 16:03

Yep. I mean, like I said, if you're at work and your boss is like, I need to give you this project and it's due in 48 hours, and you're already working on five other projects. That's when you can say, I'm so sorry, but I'm just at capacity right now because I've got X, Y, and Z going on. That would be an appropriate time to explain why you're unable to take that on. Okay, we're justifying that you can't take on a 48-hour project.

unknown: 16:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 16:30

Okay. Appropriate. Because also when we look at work, we have so much more writing on the line.

SPEAKER_02: 16:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 16:36

But if your great aunt says, hey, let's get together for Thanksgiving on Thanksgiving Day, and everyone's going to get together at five o'clock. Well, you are already booked at your husband's family. Let's just say for a brunch at 9 a.m. Your parents at noon, you don't need a third Thanksgiving dinner. You do not. You will be spent. Your children will be highly unwell and you will be too. Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 17:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 17:05

That's when you tell Aunt Brenda. Okay. We're going to have to tell Aunt Brenda. She's back. Right. We're going to have to tell Aunt Brenda, I'm so sorry that we are unable to make it that day. We have other obligations. Now, Aunt Brenda may come pressing in on what those obligations are. You could do something very general and say, we already have a brunch with my husband's side of the family. And then our family is going to be meeting at noon. And it's just too much. Now she may come and say, Well, you can surely make it at five o'clock. Or she may come back and say, Well, what if we made it at six o'clock that night? You know what I mean? And the thing is, she may genuinely want you there. So she's like, I'm willing to accommodate.

SPEAKER_02: 17:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 17:49

But that's when you can just say, I'm so sorry. That's going to be a very long day for us and our kids. We're not going to be able to, you know, tack on a third family event of the day on that day. Yeah. You know, please keep me informed if you end up putting it on Friday, Saturday, Sunday, another day. Sure, that might be an option. You only give that option if it is one. Do not give her options where you are actually having to over-exert yourself yet again.

SPEAKER_02: 18:17

Yeah. No.

SPEAKER_00: 18:18

But you don't have to go into big detail on well, we're going to be eating at this person's house and then we're going to be doing this, and I'm bringing this edition. No, no, no, no, no. Just say it's too much to do this in addition to the other things that we have planned.

SPEAKER_02: 18:32

Yeah. No. And again, I think it goes back again. If you're like, need more checklists, like Whitney said, saying yes when you want to say no. Okay. And that's not morally right. Yes. It's like, oh, I don't want to do that. We feel bad. Yep. Apologizing often, even when you did nothing wrong, the over-explaining, the avoiding conflict at all costs, feeling responsible for others' emotions, changing your opinion to match the group, or feeling guilty or feeling really anxious when we set that boundary. And then then we go back to what you may be showing is that resentment and burnout because your needs are not being met or you're internally having that conflict.

SPEAKER_00: 19:15

Right. Exactly. So you are actually allowed to prioritize yourself. And I know people pleasers really struggle with that. Hey, I'm in the same boat with you. Hand me a paddle. Let's go together. But you're allowed to prioritize yourself because again, if you don't prioritize yourself, that self-esteem, that self-worth is going to plummet. People can and will take advantage of it if they start to piece it together. But again, you don't want to enable that by saying yes to everything under the sun. And no is a whole sentence.

SPEAKER_02: 19:50

Oh, I love that. I love that one.

SPEAKER_00: 19:52

It's hard. Yeah, I'm not gonna sugarcoat that. That is very difficult. But sometimes we have to do hard things.

SPEAKER_02: 20:00

Yeah. And I I'll end this with this for you guys to take away from this. And if you want to go deeper, you know, obviously one podcast episode's not gonna solve your people pleasing, but maybe it's doing the wheels in your head of like, I need to look into this. And the therapist is an amazing person to look into this, or even asking some of your loved ones safe spaces. Right. You guys sometimes see me saying yes to things I don't want to, or do you notice this? It's a good time to kind of do an inner look. We still have weeks ahead. But Cheryl Richardson said, if you avoid conflict to keep the peace, you start a war inside yourself. There it is. So, guys, we're here so that you're not having that internal war and to support you and to calmly and politely and lovingly call you out if this episode's touched a few buttons.

SPEAKER_00: 20:48

Like I'm gonna step on your toes, but I'm gonna do it as gently as I can.

SPEAKER_02: 20:53

As always, guys, we appreciate you. We're so excited for this season with you, and we'll be back. So stay tuned.

SPEAKER_01: 21:01

Maternal mental health is as important as physical health. The Preview Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables like anxiety, anger, and even apathy. Hosted by CEO, founder Sarah Parkhurst, and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay, each episode focuses on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum. Join us to hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms. You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time. Please know you're not alone on this journey. We're here to help.