SPEAKER_02: 0:09

Hey guys, welcome back to Preview Lions Podcast. This is Sarah and happy holidays. We are in the middle of, I know you're like, I've got a gift to wrap, a school party, but respond to that text and like, wait, my kids are out of school or their schools are closed for a month. What do I do? Well, never fear. We are here for you. And I have brought in, you guys will meet her next year more and learn more about what a child therapist is. But right now, I knew I had to bring her on to introduce you, just bits of her to Madison. She is a child therapist. She is the one we're going to ask how we best can support our children when we're also trying to support ourselves and our mental health. So, Madison, welcome.

SPEAKER_00: 0:48

Hi, Sarah. Thank you so much for having me. I'm looking forward to talking about all things kiddos and kind of what that looks like at the holidays and maybe give some tips on how to survive the holidays with kiddos.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00

Hey, we love it. And we know this, these these are some of my favorite type of episodes to do because it's just kind of to the point and like actual take homes that we all need. So let's dive in. So the holidays, right? We all know the Instagram, we know the Hallmark movies. They're supposed to be magical, but they're really overwhelming, right? Family gatherings, we've got late nights, we've got travel, school is out, preschool, mom say out it's closed, right? There's some huge disruptions. So what are the biggest challenges kids really face during this time and how I mean, I guess we don't talk enough about how that probably affects their mood and their mental health. We know it affects ours, but it also affects our little loves.

SPEAKER_00: 1:41

Yeah, absolutely. I think one of those biggest things with holidays and just like the change of seasons for people and for especially kiddos is disrupted routines. That is a huge part of it. And, you know, I I say this too lightly that I know at this time of year, it's it's harder to do a routine because there is so much going on, right? And so just like for parents to maybe understand more, right? Maybe where their kids are coming from, some of the biggest challenges that affect kiddos during this time, sleep, circadian rhythm, that is a huge one, right? You think about people that go maybe travel to go see family during the holidays, or just having like later nights, right? Because we're staying up, we're doing parties, you know, we're opening gifts. And so even things like time zone change, right? You think if people are traveling, those really dysregulate our body clock. And that's super important for kids, right? To have. Whereas, you know, adults are able to pivot more and able to adapt to that. Kids, not so much, right? So that leads to them being irritable or mood swings or just difficulty concentrating overall. So that's a huge one for sure. And then also that you've got to think about sensory overload, right? There's a lot more lights, right? A lot more noise that are in crowds more. There's just an overwhelm to their nervous system in general. And so you also have to consider, too, for kiddos maybe who are highly sensitive or neurodivergent. So we really have to take those, you know, things into perspective when we're maybe kind of looking at why is our kid having a tantrum, right? And I think too, it's important to consider, you know, during this time, kiddos are things are a lot more unpredictable, right? Than when they were in school, they had a structure. And so you got to think about, you know, having this such sudden change to maybe their schedule can even heighten kiddos' anxiety, like you talked about with mental health, especially for those kiddos that need like a routine and that they find security in that. And then also just with for kids like social expectations, they are obviously always having to be around maybe new people or relatives. And that's really exhausting. That's exhausting for an adult, but that's can be really exhausting for kiddos because you know, kids are still learning who they are, trying to come out of their shell. They might be shy or introverted. And so that's something that really we have to take into consideration when we're thinking about like what's going on with our kiddos during this time. So, yeah, those are some of the biggest challenges, I think, to look for when we're kind of maybe considering what's going on with our kiddos for sure.

SPEAKER_02: 4:05

No, all things. And I think, you know, with anything, right? If we can look ahead and say, okay, what does these next two weeks look like? What is controllable, what is not controllable? You know, not every single night can be out late, right? Like we have to vacate some kind of order that is, and it's seasons, right? And it's like if you have that newborn baby, you know, or you have those toddlers that they really do need those naps. They really do need the, you know, a set bedtime, saying no, that feels hard, right? It feels like I don't left out, or you're hurting someone's feelings, but we always say no is a full answer.

SPEAKER_00: 4:40

Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Yeah. That's a that's a tough one too, yeah. Cause especially when you have maybe like kiddos that are different ages, kind of trying to navigate, like, you know, do I let my older kiddos stay up and not my younger? And kind of trying to navigate that. But yeah, I totally agree on what you said too, just trying to also stay consistent to a schedule, but also, you know, some nights it might be different for sure.

SPEAKER_02: 5:05

Yeah, love that. Now, you know, big family gatherings, right? It's a marathon. I like you've mentioned, we can get exhausted, right? It's not normal to see all the new faces. It's almost like you have to, like, you know, sit up, stand up straight, you know, cross your T's, dot your I's, right? How can, you know, parents help when your kids are going into large gatherings? They're seeing family they're not used to, they're in environments they're not used to. What is some tools that can kind of help them prep them ahead of time?

SPEAKER_00: 5:39

Sure, yeah. That's a that's a big one. And I think one of my biggest recommendations for parents, especially during holiday season, is kind of like almost preview the plan, if that makes sense. So walking the kiddo through the day, like who's gonna be there, what activities you might do, where to go for a quiet time. That's a huge one. So kind of like setting them up, almost with a structure slash schedule, allowing them to know what is happening, right? Because I think even as an adult, we love to know what's gonna be happening where we go. So you think about a kid, right? Or maybe they're a little bit more shy or nervous about like having to see or meet new people, giving them that opportunity to understand, like, okay, this is what we're gonna do at this time. Here's some people that will be there, you know, giving them that opportunity to understand maybe what's to come. Also, maybe for I think this is helpful for any kiddo, but especially for our sensory overload kiddos, packing like a calm down kit. That's super helpful. So that could include things like headphones or like their favorite book or toy, or even like a little snack. And then I'm a fidget person, I love fidgets, especially for kids. So, like any type of fidget that may could help them, maybe when they are getting to that overload. And I think too, we like we just kind of talked about, it's super important during these, like a survival tool to use, is trying to keep like a key anchor of things like we're gonna have, you know, bedtime these couple of nights, and sometimes that may change, but let's try to keep it consistent as much as we can, right? And that could even be small things like, you know, we're gonna read a bedtime story every night at this time, and maybe they're not going to bed right then, but still keeping that consistency in their routine, right? And then also I think to just as parents, it's important to model to our kiddos, you know, what we're doing to show them that that's also what they can do. And so, you know, I think as parents, like taking a break and also showing your kid like it's okay to take a break. Like you can step away if you need to, because kids are gonna copy what they see, especially that their parents are doing right. So I think in those moments where things are stressful, using those type of tools to kind of help can be very helpful for kids, especially the one about kind of like previewing what's going to be happening during the day.

SPEAKER_02: 7:52

Yeah. And one thing we had to learn the hard way, but I learned is if we're bringing our children in a situation they've never been into. And this this is like they flew for the first time. And so what we did is I I mean, it didn't take much. I set up a couple of chairs and I walked us through and say, okay, this is your ticket counter and this is what's we're gonna happen. This is what security looks like. Okay. And we watched a YouTube video. TSA does a great hey, what to expect as a kid video, which is super fun. We watched it, we practiced it, we practiced them rolling their little luggage, we practiced sitting down, pretending to the flight attendant and off and then, you know, kind of just like social expectations. So just role play a little bit, which really seemed to be beneficial. I know not every situation you can do that, but if you are traveling or if you are walking in, say if it's a, you know, if it's a if it's a church, it's a new church for the first time, you know, tell them expectations. We're gonna walk in and we're gonna sit down, but this is gonna happen. So little things like that I've learned along the way, the hard way of doing it wrong and now trying to do it better. But what about our anxious kids and like or anxious parents? And they're like, I get really overwhelmed, Madison, like I feel my heartbeat really fast, or I get, you know, I visibly get upset. What is some cooldown, quick things that's not obvious? It's not like screaming to the whole gathering, hey, I'm having an anxiety attack.

SPEAKER_00: 9:18

Right. Yeah, I think for those, I always run to grounding techniques. I think those can be so helpful and they can be one of those things where it's like you can do it in a group of people and they don't even know. So my favorite grounding technique for adults, kiddos, teenagers is box breathing. So I typically do it as you can always tell kids they can draw it with their hand if they want to, but if you don't want to be like obvious, right, you could also just do it in your head. And so I typically do the structure of you inhale up for four seconds and then you hold for four, exhale for four and then hold again. So that really helps regulate us in those moments of high intensity, especially for people that do feel more anxiety during just regular life, but also in those moments too. And I also think a really great one that you can do without being obvious, you could just do it in a group of people, is the five senses technique. So really honing in on our senses can help us to regulate our nervous system. And so I typically approach that one, especially for kids. We start with five, so we do five things that we can see, and they kind of can look around the room. I think, especially at holidays, it could be easier. There's a lot to see, right? You could do like four things that you can hear, three things that you can touch, two things that you can taste, and then one thing you can smell. So just going through the senses, I mean, I recommend that so much for adults, but even for kids, it's more of like a fun one that you can do. It's almost like I spy in a sense, right? Like you're trying to like find these things. And so I think especially for people who might be more highly anxious in general, but also at a gathering, maybe trying to do some breath work with maybe box breathing or five senses could be super helpful.

SPEAKER_02: 11:04

Love that. All super things we can take anywhere we go. Now, it's gonna happen, right? Every parent, if they're like, I've been there, gonna be there, was there yesterday. It's a meltdown in the middle of a big party. It's a meltdown in the middle of the grocery store when you really just needed those last two baking items and you need to get in and out. Help us understand kind of like what's going on in the meltdown and how we should respond. That's not gonna make it worse.

SPEAKER_00: 11:33

Sure, yeah. That is super, super important, I think, to consider when we're looking at kids like why are they having a meltdown? You know, what's going on inside of them, right? So I think it's helpful to consider stress response, right? So there's children in this time of year are a lot more fatigued, right? They've had maybe meals skipped and overall just like sensory overload, right? So our body releases stress hormones um during those fatigue, skipped meal moments where our heart rate is speeding up and we're getting, you know, we're not able to catch our breath and we're trying to calm down, but we can't, right? And so in these moments, right, where you're having this stress response activation, kiddos are not able to think logically and their self-control is kind of dropped, right? So we had to consider that first, right? There's already things going on with fatigue, and we also have to consider things like even like with low blood pressure, right? So you might go longer between meals than a kiddos normally structured, right? At school where they every day they eat at 11:30 or they eat at 12. Whereas during the holidays, it might be more like we eat at 11 one day and one the next day. And so we have to think about too, like having those longer gaps in meals is we have to consider that for kids and how that's affecting them. And even thinking about obviously during this time, there's a lot more sugar involved. And so there's a lot of sugar-heavy treats that are kind of you know causing a rise and a drop in glucose, which that intensifies our irritability and impulsivity, right? So there's so much to consider there. And then we talked earlier about like sensory overload, right? We have bright lights, we have loud music, we have crowded rooms, this constant movement, right? That's kind of affecting the nervous system, especially for kids. And so for kids, a lot of the times they can kind of get in that fight, flight, freeze situation, right? And two, we have to consider like emotional spillover, right? So there's so many big emotions at the holidays. There's excitement, there's anticipation, there's anxiety, right? For what's coming, you know, there's anger, right? When our brother gets the toy that maybe like we wanted that toy, you know. So there's so much to consider of how emotions are being regulated for kiddos. And then we have to also consider developmental, right? So kiddos are not, you know, their um brains are still wiring. And so the skills for emotional regulation aren't there. They are learning them, but they're not fully there. And so they may not have like the words or even ways to cope in those moments, right? And so they have a meltdown in the middle of the grocery store, right? So those are important things to consider, right? There, I mean, there could be so many more that we consider, but those are big ones to consider in the holidays, just because, you know, all of those things kind of are going on then. So, in terms of how to respond when this is happening, I think it's so important to remember connection before correction, right? Parents, I encourage you to get down on your kiddos level, use a calm voice, even offer a sip of water and just kind of allow them to regulate with you, right? Now, maybe that's not in the middle of the grocery store aisle, but I think too, trying to be more understanding and connect with them versus trying so hard to get them to stop immediately, right? And that's understandable because it is a lot. It can make the parent feel overstimulated, it can make the parent's nervous system go into fight or flight, right? So I think two, trying to firstly understand what's happening in their brain. Why are they, why are they doing this, right? But then two, we're trying to connect with the child, trying to help them regulate with us, because again, they don't have all those tools to know how to regulate like we do. And then along with that, like I said, co-regulation, right? So if that means like, you know, getting your groceries and leaving, or just like taking a break and walking outside for a second with your kiddo, kind of like teaching them deep breaths by doing it together. So like holding their hand or like even if like for kids that might be like hot, like holding their hair back just so they can feel a little bit more regulated. And that just really helps their nervous system settle. And then, you know, you start modeling that to them, they start doing that themselves. So I think my favorite thing to recommend, like I said, is always connection before correction, right? Not that correction is not necessary, but also trying to be more understanding in those moments and connect with them before we just immediately are like, you know, you're not listening, you know, you're just having a meltdown for no reason, right? Because again, it's a lot for parents too. So I also encourage parents to just give grace to themselves during these times for sure.

SPEAKER_02: 15:59

Yeah. Is there a way you help parents learn to um, and I struggle with this, naming the feelings or naming like, you know, you're like you mentioned, I'm really like they don't understand. They just know that I wanted that toy, my brother got it. Like they don't, they don't get that. Is there a way you help to say parents like, okay, that's great. I want to help them name the feelings because maybe I've never named my own feelings. I've just I just feel them.

SPEAKER_00: 16:23

Right. That's you know, with the modeling, right? Like I think that in parenthood, there's so much to learn too about yourself and how maybe like you need those things too. And so I think, like I said, with modeling, like modeling deep breaths when you're stressed to your kids, also doing that, right? Like maybe helping them name what they're feeling, right? Because again, kiddos don't have all the words in the world to describe how they're feeling. And so maybe that's like sitting down with them and asking them, like, let's pick how you're feeling, because that's valid to feel that way. But also, we have to consider like you did get all these great toys, and maybe another time you could get that toy, or maybe you and brother could share. Like trying to find the um letting the kiddo experience the validation of yes, it's disappointing that we don't always get every toy that our older brother has, and that's okay to feel that way, but also teaching them how to regulate in those moments, right? Because, you know, adults get that way too. There's adults have jealousy and envy, and so it's it's about learning how to manage it, right? It's it's valid to feel your feelings, but also not letting them take over. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 17:28

All I tell my boys, all feelings are welcome, not all actions. And that is something I'm learning myself too, but it is, and then I tell people like your kids will ask you what something is, or be like, I'm like, well, you're feeling frustrated. They're like, explain frustrated. And it's then you're going in the moment, you're like, how am I explaining frustrated? You know, to a four-year-old and a seven-year-old when it's like not getting what you want, you're trying hard, but it is very interesting, makes your parent brain work differently. We explain what emotions really are in these, you know. I know some of my friends, she's kind of like the face smiley chart, yeah, inside out. We've enjoyed watching that. But I think really being able to recognize the the spectrum of emotions is huge.

SPEAKER_00: 18:18

Absolutely. Yeah. I think that's a big one too. Even like as a therapist, sometimes when a kid asks me how to like, what does that mean? I'm like, well, what does that? You know, like, you know, I think as an adult, you get to the point where you're like, I know what that feeling means, but it's hard to almost explain. And so my biggest thing I try to do with kiddos is I often try to like give an example, right? Of something that maybe they've experienced or something that they might experience, or even like something from a movie, like inside out. Like, do you remember when this happened to anxiety? You know, so maybe giving them more just like images to maybe understand more, because you know, just explaining frustrated might not be able to click for them. Like they're like, okay, that's I don't really get that. So giving them the opportunity more, like maybe giving them examples or like going back to a movie to help them understand it more. Cause I I definitely understand it's it can be hard to explain, right? Because we as adults, we're just easily like, I'm frustrated and you know what that means. And maybe you don't know how to how to define it, but you know what it means. And so allowing kiddos to understand more, maybe through imagery um can be super helpful, I think, for kids to start to learn like, what does this emotion mean?

SPEAKER_02: 19:25

I love that. That's great. And then speaking more kind of to the parents, right? And then expectations in our own stress, right? And like our we want it perfect. We want to go in back into maybe it was like maybe we had an amazing childhood, we want to give our kids the same thing, maybe we didn't and we want it better. Maybe we've seen comparison and we think we have to live up to a certain standard, right? But how can this perfect holiday guilt shame when things don't go as planned, because they're not going to go as planned? It's life. But how can parents manage their own expectations? and help their kids feel more secure in it.

SPEAKER_00: 20:04

Yeah. Yeah. This is a this is a big one for sure. I think as adults, you know, holidays can be super fun, but also super stressful. And we want our holidays to be perfect for our kids and even for ourselves, right? We want to just have like a good holiday season. And so I think one of the most important things to consider as a parent is I think we should learn how to maybe redefine what perfect is, right? So we want to maybe aim more for like being able to connect with our kids, our family than performance, right? Of like making our house look perfect, right? You are a human. Your house isn't always going to be perfect, right? So maybe, you know, I think considering what is perfect and what will perfect look like from my family, right? And I think especially for kids, I always want to remind parents this that kids are going to remember the warmth and the connection they had from their childhood, not flawless and perfect decor or their home being perfect, right? And I like I think too even to my childhood. I don't remember anything about the decor or even the way that my home looked, but I remember the things that my parents did with me as a child. And so I think that is something to really take in mind when we are having this expectation of like everything has to be perfect, right? Two, we should also for maybe parents who are feeling just extra stress, like having some like mindful pauses here and there. I think we can definitely get to the point where you know the holiday season flies by and we never once stopped and felt wow yeah nice. You know like I'm off work right now. I'm with my kids like, you know, we don't really consider what's happening. We don't feel it. And so I think like for parents especially with kiddos like doing some mindfulness of like even having just some like slow breathing time just to like sit and look and you know feel what's happening or even if like if you can just take a short little walk for a second just to have time for yourself because those can really help with stress hormones and just kind of help regulate overall because yes, you know, it's a very overstimulated time for kiddos, but it's also for parents. And so I think it's super important that parents also take care of themselves, right? Because if parents can't do that, then how are they going to be able to be understanding and regulating with their kids, right? If they can't do it themselves. So I think that is super important to kind of just be able to be in the moment and just sometimes give yourself like a break. And then like we talked about earlier too, I think naming our feelings is super, super important and it models healthy regulation. And so saying things in front of your kids like I'm feeling a little bit stressed. So I'm going to go take a break. Like that's super great modeling for kids to see like you know what sometimes mom gets stressed too and she's like she just needs to go sit in her room for a second. So I think that's super important when we're trying to manage maybe high expectations or distress to kind of consider those things because parents need to take care of themselves as well.

SPEAKER_02: 23:03

It was the other night made me think of this my youngest he just turned four and it was a process going to sleep and sometimes I call him the lay king and he was having one of his moments and I just kind of went like that first I guess he asked he's like we have to go potty again and I was like oh you really don't but you know you know the one time he says he does it'll be a whole thing if you know so he goes mommy what are you feeling in this moment? And I was like you know and I just I thought okay my face obviously my body language I mean my tone has made him realize I'm feeling something but then I was realized I've you know between me and his his teachers who are I'm so grateful for at his school talking about asking what how are you feeling and I thought you know that's okay to be honest and I I love that and I think that is when kids can feel like they can talk about how they're feeling if it is an open house of communication of mommy is feeling a little like hot right now. I'm feeling my body's feeling hot my heart's feeling a little much like I'm feeling a little stressed or mommy's feeling overwhelmed or yeah you know mommy's a little tired. So yes I'm a little frustrated this is the second time that you need to go potty in five minutes. But I think it is such a nuanced thing for this generation of parents because we maybe weren't used to that growing up. So it is harder because we it wasn't modeled to us, but we are trying to do better for ourselves and model for our own kids.

SPEAKER_00: 24:33

Absolutely yeah that's a I think that's a big one to just you know with emotion healthy emotional regulation it's not something that we're just like born with but we don't come out of the womb just knowing like this is how I regulate. And so I think like if that's maybe not always modeled for you as you know the parent when they were kids like you know not really knowing how to do that for your kids when they're older. And so I I agree I'm so glad that this generation of parents were teaching kiddos like I'm gonna watch mom and dad how they regulate right and then parents saying like I am feeling stressed or I am feeling frustrated because of this even though you might feel hesitant to share that because you don't want them to feel like you're mad at them it's also important for them to understand like you have emotions too. And like when they have emotions instead of hitting their brother they should come up to you and say I'm mad at brother because he won't play with me right and so I agree that is super, super important, especially as we teach kids emotional regulation.

SPEAKER_02: 25:30

No, I I love that and I think it is same thing with like struggle and you know failing at a task. I learned that with our oldest is like he had this perception of mom dad never failed or we never struggled. And I think the holidays are a perfect time to kind of model you know well I wanted to get five things I wanted these XY things done or you know what I baked this cake and guess what buddy I must have forgotten something and it didn't rise or it it fell apart or it tastes really awful and I remember last year I made this bread pudding I forgot the sugar and the boys tasted it they're like I was like wow mommy mommy's not perfect mommy makes mistakes so I do think there's every opportunity the holiday is just like abundance of opportunities to really look at it be like we're gonna go through it. What can we come out better for it? Right absolutely and on that note how are you going to end this was one piece of advice that you can give for us and our own children, right? How to enjoy and I love the tips you gave us is there any other nuggets of wisdom that you've seen and you're like I can already see my calendar filling up in January for people having to you know deload.

SPEAKER_00: 26:41

Sure yeah I think like honestly it's a simple piece of advice but it's so important to protect the basics right so what that means is protecting um sleep schedule as much as possible maybe food schedule or what they eat as much as possible and downtime. Those are super important to help kiddos regulate and so you know we when you think about when kiddos are rested and nourished like everything becomes easier right doesn't mean that the day is going to be perfect but it becomes easier because you know they've slept well and they're not cranky because they didn't get enough sleep but they also have eaten enough right and not just straight sugar right I totally believe that kiddos can have you know stuff at the holidays but also just also allowing them to get those basic food groups that they need right and so I think in these moments you know building in the quiet moments keeping snacks handy and just remembering that honestly a calm parent can be a very good gift for kiddos to receive right so it's important in these moments to try to protect the things of like sleep food and downtime but also to take care of yourself in these moments so that you can be a calm parent right because you know you have the ability to regulate a lot more easier than your kiddo does for a multitude of reasons. And so the more that you're able to regulate take care of yourself validate your own feelings the better that you're gonna be able to understand when your kiddos are just having a bad day and not resort straight to yelling you know because that's normal when you are also not regulating you know you're gonna yell and you're gonna be upset. And so I think trying your best to preserve the structure that your kiddos might need and that they know the best you can obviously that is not always going to be the case. But then also taking care of yourself I think those two things together could help your holiday season flow a lot smoother and just not really be a time of just survival but a time of joy and excitement with your kiddos and so that your family can just have a good holiday season.

SPEAKER_02: 28:47

I love it Madison we're so appreciative of you and listeners do not fear in the new year you will get to hear a more in-depth conversation with me and Madison about what exactly a child therapist does what's some things to see so if this has piqued your interest hang on make it through the holidays she'll be back in the new year and we'll dive deeper but Madison I thank you so much listeners happy holidays we're in this with you maternal mental health is as important as physical health the Preview Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables like anxiety anger and even apathy hosted by CEO, founder Sarah Parkers and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay, each episode focuses on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum.

SPEAKER_01: 29:32

Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms. You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time. Please know you're not alone on this journey. We're here to help