SPEAKER_02: 0:09

Hi guys, welcome to Preview Lions Podcast and Happy 2026. This is Sarah, and I have back with me Esther Coleman. She is from Golden Tears Therapy. We love her. And today we're talking about something you're probably going to be seeing a lot if you're scrolling on Instagram or Facebook. You're attacked by the algorithm of a green smoothie can carry your post-partum depression. Take this for anxiety. All the wellness brands coming at you, especially in the start of a new year and telling you what you can take for your mental health. So we're going to debunk a lot of the myths, talk about how it's predatory towards mobs and talk through what actually works. So stay tuned and so glad to have you with us. Hey guys, welcome to Preview Lions podcast. And as I said in our intro, I have brought back Esther, who you guys loved, and we're so happy to have her back. And today we're talking about one of her, I love her Instagram, guys. If you I will link it, but if you guys have not checked out her Instagram, it's like she's reading my mind. So I love it. I'm like, yes, yes, yes, as I swipe and like. But one of your posts, Esther, was no your green smoothie won't cure post-part and fresh anxiety. And it got a little controversial, which we love to talk about.

SPEAKER_00: 1:21

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me back again to your podcast. Yes, it this post uh was a little bit controversial because people thought that I was speaking against healthy lifestyle or wellness, exercise, nutrition, sleep. And that's not the case at all. So let's just make it clear to everybody that even as a therapist, personally and professionally, I find it very, very important. And I really encourage every mom to take care of themselves, right? However, when we are talking about postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, complex emotional and mental health challenges, just simplifying that down to a green smoothie or practicing yoga, that can be so invalidating and unhelpful to many moms. Because if a kale smoothie could cure postpartum depression, then I would be the first in line to buy and store all the kale, right? And and make those smoothies to all of my clients, let's say. But it's more complex than then.

SPEAKER_02: 2:39

It is. And you know, in the start of the year, which we're in the new year, and we talked a little bit of this four-star recording, it seems like this is really where kind of that wellness market, which is a trillion-dollar industry, okay, for a reason, right? They're doing a lot of direct to consumer. So we're scrolling on Instagram or say you're a new mom, we're up feeding the baby, and we're scrolling, and we're targeted with these ads. And they know kind of based on an algorithm, right? If we've watched a real a little bit too long, if we've liked something that we're probably struggling, or that motherhood, that transition is such a vulnerable time, even if you're not struggling with a maternal mental health disorder, right? And they also try to say it to you like, well, you got to prevent it by taking this movie or, you know, doing this X, Y, and Z. And like you said, it feels very predatory, but it also, when you are in the depths of depression or anxiety, you're so desperate. You're like, okay, I feel like a bad mom. Can I just buy this? Where do I sign up? Let me put my credit card in. I just want to be better.

SPEAKER_00: 3:41

Yeah, absolutely. They are such in a, they're in a vulnerable position. And if it doesn't work out, let's say that, you know, if they sign up, then they feel like that they did something wrong, right? Like, how come it, if it didn't work, then it's my fault. And that's the whole thing about this kind of wellness mom industry that in a way it puts the blame on the mom, right? If you ate just better or had that smoothie or practiced yoga, then you would feel good. So if you do not feel well, then there's something wrong with you. There's something that you're not doing well. And that's completely false. I mean, there's so many factors, right, that play into postpartum mental health challenges. And this is the myth of the quick fix, right? Like hacks. And there are no quick fix or hacks in life in general, and especially when it comes to motherhood. So I think that hormonal shifts, psychological history of your mental health or current psychological challenges, social aspect, the social support is so crucial and so important, right? In the fourth trimester or in the postpartum period in general. Because really, no one would tell someone with, let's say, diabetes that, oh, just uh drink your smoothie and instead of taking your insulin, and then you're just gonna be fine. Yeah, right. To a patient who has diabetes, you would still encourage them, you know, to maybe change their lifestyle, but you wouldn't tell them that if you need, let's say, take insulin, then take that, right? It I mean, it's life-saving, and that goes for a motherhood as well. In some cases, not all cases, but medication can be very helpful. Again, I'm not pushing medication on anybody, but stating that it's harmful, medication is harmful, or therapy, counseling is not as effective, then we're just really hurting the moms even more.

SPEAKER_02: 5:52

And you know, the bottom line of all this, and you know, when I was struggling, I was so desperate again, just for somebody. I mean, I think it's shame, right? Like that is a like we we're carrying so much shame with it. We're feeling like a failure. We may or may not have spoken up at that point to anybody about how what we're really thinking, how we're really feeling is a loss of expectations, right? You're like, I thought I would have it together. I thought this wouldn't be hard, or it's just that really messy period. So I think it, and they know that, right? So it's so much easier to always do something in secret see because like no one's gonna know if I buy this and I can start taking this and I'm gonna hopefully magically feel better, versus that hard of coming to realization of sometimes saying it out loud to someone and asking for help.

SPEAKER_00: 6:39

Yeah, like if I'm still feeling anxious, then I must be doing something wrong, right? Yeah. And that adds another layer of shame, right? And then we don't wanna, as new moms, we we don't even wanna seek more help or reach out to professionals because we're thinking that, okay, I'm doing it wrong. If the smoothie didn't help, or if I'm practicing yoga or stretching or walks, which is helpful, right? But it hasn't cured my postpartum anxiety, then I must be doing something wrong. Therefore, I'm not even gonna say anything because I'm so ashamed about it already. And I don't want anybody to know that I'm doing this wrong. It's so harmful. So again, it's moms feel dismissed, unseen, unheard. When again, these real struggles are reduced to a diet per se, right? Yeah, and um it adds guilt.

SPEAKER_02: 7:39

Yeah. You know, I think this saying goes to people say, Well, just take a shower, you'll feel better. Or go get your hair done, you'll feel better. You know, and it it's or sleep, right? That's a big one. Well, we know sleep is a big factor, right? Then but the moms are going, well, if I could, I would, you know, like you know, do you if I could not get up five, six times between the hours of 10 and 6 a.m. because the baby keeps crying, needs to be fed. Well, I would be sleeping, sir. So it is, I think it falls into that category of people just throwing out this advice to her. And again, it's like you almost won't be like, duh, like I know, but that's not happening.

SPEAKER_00: 8:24

Yeah, we all know, right? Like sleep is important, we all know diet is important, exercise is important. And yes, you're right. Like when you have a little baby, you just don't sleep. I mean, sadly, that's the hardest thing to do when you're a new mom is getting enough sleep. And obviously, you're trying to do all of those things. And when again, when it's just reduced to all of these different buzzwords, then you're just standing there as a new mom, not knowing who to call, where to reach out, what to do next. And I I even remember that I did all, I mean, healthy lifestyle has always been important to me. But then when you find yourself in the midst of motherhood, especially the beginning phase, you cannot even think clearly. That's yes, like you just can't. Everything is so foggy because you're so overwhelmed or so tired. You don't have to have a clinical diagnosis to feel that way. That's another important thing I think we should talk about. Like, you don't have to have a clinical diagnosis of, let's say, postpartum depression or anxiety in order to ask for help. But again, when you're in the middle of that, you just cannot even think clearly. And I think the other thing that we always forget to talk about that what works for you, that doesn't mean it works for me, right? So every it's important to experiment in a reasonable way and figure out what works for me, what works for you. Maybe my needs are completely different from your needs, right? Some moms need practical help, other moms need maybe just a listening ear, right? And again, all of these recipes for all kinds of hacks are not tailored individually to each person. And that's so important. Same way in psychotherapy, we can do the same exact intervention for every single mom because every mom has a different situation. Medications. There's a couple of medications that are effective and safe for new moms to take, let's say, poor postpartum depression. But some moms maybe tolerate Lexapro over Zoloft, right? Or this one works with that mom and the other medication wouldn't work. So that's why we have to understand that this is a whole different picture. Like it's a complex, an individual is a very complex person, right? It's always a person in the environment, right? Maybe that mom doesn't have enough social support, and that's an extremely important aspect of the postpartum life. So maybe we need to help that mom find postpartum support groups, for example. So really having that individualized plan and help for the new mom. That's the key.

SPEAKER_02: 11:16

And it's important too, because I know that especially the type A moms, you want to feel like I've done everything I can. And you know, and they're like, okay, we hear, you know, well, I was eating what I was supposed to during pregnancy. I started therapy. Well, I had a birth plan. I had a setup at the house. Well, all those things can be true. And you still have a maternal mental health disorder. And that's the thing about it that feels crappy at times is that you can do everything right and it's not your fault that this happens to you. But that's hard for a lot of people to accept, right? And not take failure on because anything else in life, for the most part, you know, you're like, well, I have this test, I've studied for it, I feel prepared, I ate well, I took a good sleep, I go in and I get the A, right? And you assume motherhood and mental health is the same thing, and it's not.

SPEAKER_00: 12:10

No, because it's one plus one doesn't always equal two, or almost. Yeah, you're right. You can do absolutely everything by the book, and it will still happen, right? Just like the same way how we hear sometimes that first time moms didn't have maybe postpartum depression, but they had it second time around, or the third time around, or first time around, yes, and second time around, no, right? Same way with the birth plan. Maybe you planned everything and you did all the healthy nutrition during pregnancy, older classes, everything. And maybe you still needed an emergency C section, right? Which is very difficult and can be also traumatic experience for many moms. But these are just also the examples that even if you do everything right, and we all wanna we all try to do things right because that gives us this sense of control, right? Like if I do all of this right, then everything's gonna turn out fine, and then I don't feel anxious. But sadly, that's not the case. And mental health disorders, like you said, it can happen. It's nobody's fault. It's definitely not the mom's fault. And I think it's also important to differentiate between emotional health or mental health, right? Because emotional health is what we all have, right? Like we all have good days, bad days, anxious moments, sad moments. But when we talk about mental health, like postpartum mental health, then we also talk about like actual mental health disorders, right? Like we can diagnose postpartum OCD, depression, postpartum anxiety, there's postpartum psychosis, right? So all of the postpartum mood and anxiety disorders. And those are nobody's fault. People can be diagnosed and that's it, and even they did everything right.

SPEAKER_02: 14:08

And it's so interesting. I always just you know tell people, I'm like, the most common complication above hemorrhage, above gestational diabetes is maternal mental health disorders from pregnancy and postpartum, right? Yet it is the most marketed to for baby products and like the self-wellness. Yet we have the lack of maternal mental health providers, lack of resources, lack of education. And then at the end of the day, again, it goes back to mom being like, I had no idea, I couldn't find help, or I tried to say something, I was told to take a shower, or I did, I bought the green smoothie and it didn't work. And then it almost takes a crisis for her to get help or an intervention, or she just kind of suffers in silence for so long, or the ultimate, you know, what we don't want to happen is like something happens to her or baby, right?

SPEAKER_00: 15:01

Yeah, it definitely downplays and invalidates that mom's experience for sure. Because yes, take a shower, it can help, but maybe it just helps for the next five, 10 minutes, and then you're back to square one, right? And that pressure on moms, I guess we can tie that into the bouncing back culture.

SPEAKER_02: 15:21

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 15:22

Which is not when I say bounce back, I don't mean just uh physically, right? We want moms to be fit and then just look exactly the same way how they looked prior to pregnancy, but also bouncing back to the person who you were, like because like be that same person who you were plus the mom, right? Yeah and and I always say, and then that's what these quick fixes or hacks kind of try to sell you that oh, you're gonna be basically how you were before, whether if it's physically, emotionally, but there's no bouncing back because there's nothing to bounce back to, right? Because you are a different person now and you're moving forward. So it's more like bouncing forward as opposed to back. And the bouncing forward can look like different again, like I mentioned earlier to each mom. It's more about figuring out what works for you, whether if it's uh lifestyle, whether if it's uh therapy, whether if it's medication, social support, different parenting skills, given your circumstances, where you live, what resources you have, and sadly you're right, most moms do not have access to adequate mental health resources. I mean, I can see that here I'm in San Diego, California, and even though obviously it has a great, great community of providers who are specialized in perinatal mental health, but I can even see how many of these mom centers, let's say, call it let's call it that way, that are amazing and great and very helpful, but still they are located in more affluent areas of the city and you cannot really find them in the middle or lower income parts of the city. So it always makes me think, how do those moms have access to the same resources what the more affluent mums have?

SPEAKER_02: 17:24

I've thought about that several times in my own journey. I was not able to lean into my family support and get the help I needed and pay out of pocket for that with my family support at that time of our lives. I don't know where that would have ended up. But you know, that was something that was I was afforded that again, others are not. And I think that is a lot that it's just not talked about. It's just not the, hey, we know it's not the mom's fault, but like really, you know, our healthcare system is failing moms in so many ways. And the direct outcomes for mom and baby tied so much to our mental health in that in that child's four to six years post-part, like that, you know, early childhood, everybody says, you know, well, what's the greatest factor or what's the greatest outcome? And it it goes back to mom. If she is mentally and physically okay, yet again, the least amount of resources afforded to her. I mean, you're gonna pee in a cup every single visit and get your blood pressure checked every single visit. But I guarantee you maybe ask once or none about how your anxiety or depression is during your whole entire pregnancy.

SPEAKER_00: 18:27

Yeah, yeah, sadly, that's very true. And again, it depends on the provider, depending on where you live, which state you live in, because it's crazy how some states require some screening, but in some states they don't even talk about it. So there's great effort and some sort of grassroot movements and also postpartum support international are great in terms of providing training, right, to professionals as well as uh building community and free support groups to everyone. Yet there's still so many moms that they just never even heard of it because it's not talked about. And even if you think about the visits, right? Like during pregnancy, you said you get your UP in a cup every single time during pregnancy, and they see you, I mean, depending on your pregnancy, but a lot, right? Like every every month, and then towards the end, like every two weeks, and then at six weeks, postpartum, they see you one time and then that's it. You're you're on your own. Not to mention maternity leave, right? Which is crazy, crazy to me how we you know, certain I guess I I don't even wanna bring in politics here, but just regardless of politics, like how they use that, they politicize moms, which I really don't like to see. And talking about supporting moms but not providing adequate maternity leave. And that itself is, in my opinion, would be better than any green smoothie quick fix, right? Just to have that maternity leave that would be sufficient for moms to recover from birth, whether if it's vaginal or or c-section, to recover physically, emotionally, mentally, just kind of come out from that fog, right? Like when you don't even know what day it is or what time it is, bond with the baby, because bonding takes time as well. And yes, it's easier at home when you have enough maternity leave than having to go back to work at eight weeks postpartum or 12 weeks postpartum and trying to figure out how to feed the baby, pump, how to store the breast milk, or even if you formula feed, still figuring that out. Wake up in the middle of the night and then in the morning wake up at 5 a.m. to go to work and child care costs, then any. I mean, it's insane. It's insane. So it's very sad to see how, for whatever reason, and you tell me if you know why they don't have proper maternity leave in the United States. That I mean, it's it's crazy to me.

SPEAKER_02: 21:27

It's always mind-boggling to just when you're talking to people about this, and it's common sense things, right? That you would support a mom. And that, you know, we all came from a mom. We all this is how we're all here, right? It's like we were babies, and like it's not something that people don't relate to. Like you were that baby, you had that mom, or you had that caregiver. Would you have not wanted them supported with their mental health? Like, why would you not want that for your wife, your mother, you know, your sister, your friend, like yourself? So it's just a mind-boggling thing that there still has to be an like you have to advocate, you have to fight for your mental health, you have to self-educate because your provider may not speak on that to you. You may be Googling and come across this podcast and go, wow, you know, this was not my fault. And there is steps. And I think it's a good point to say, okay, if the mom is listening and she's like, well, great. And so I tried the green smoothie, it didn't work. What would you tell her the next steps for her to be?

SPEAKER_00: 22:24

Well, first of all, it's not your fault if it didn't work, because it didn't work because green smoothie itself is not gonna cure anything. It can support and help, but not curative. So that would be the first thing that I would tell them. And then also that they are not alone at all. You're not alone, you're not broken, you're not feeling, and reach out for support, whether it's postpartum support group, a mom group in your area, if it's online, because in these days we can do online, and that works for most moms, right? Because sometimes they just can't leave the house because the baby's napping or they felt tired and they don't feel like it. But find a support group, reach out for um to a therapist, right, for counseling, someone who specialized in maternal mental health and maybe even have had lived experience, right? Because many of these providers have experienced some postpartum mental health challenges, like myself as well. But reaching out to a therapist to have this safe, supportive space, right, where you are not made to feel that you're there's something wrong with you or that you're crazy, right? Because that's often moms feel that when they tell maybe friends or even the partners that they're looking at them like, what are you talking about? That's crazy talk. But no, therapy and counseling is a safe space, it's a great place where you can learn tools for managing maybe the symptoms of depression or anxiety, intrusive thoughts, whatever you're struggling with. And then sometimes, not in every case, but sometimes medication can be helpful. And in some cases, it can be actually lifesaver. So let's just make that clear. Again, I'm not advocating for anyone or pushing anybody into any direction, but just having a basic understanding that yes, in some cases, medication can be life-saving. It doesn't mean you're gonna be on that medication for the rest of your life, but it can be helpful because if you're suffering and struggling and you're in a really, really dark place, I just like that mom, if she's listening to this podcast right now, I would like her to know that you don't have to stay in that place. Like there's actually help out there. And if medication is an option for you, that can really help you, maybe along with counseling, to come out of that dark place and just to start to feel like yourself again. It it's a process. Like I said, there's no quick fix and hacks, it's gonna take time, but you will feel like yourself again. And yes, social support, incredibly important. Finding maybe your partner is not your best social support. It's possible. And many moms feel ashamed about that because maybe they imagine, like, oh, they're gonna have this great support from family members and they are not getting it, and they see other moms getting it. There's no shame in that. I mean, it's not your fault. I would always encourage you to ask for specific help, even from your family members. And if you're not getting it, again, it's not your fault. And it doesn't mean you're not worthy of that support. You still deserve that. And then maybe let's help that mom find other kinds of support, right? Again, that's when the support groups come in. Maybe some friends. So finding the right people and surround yourself by the right people. And finally, just to circle back to the green smoothie talk, but lifestyle, yes, sleep, nutrition, exercise, all important. But let's frame it as supportive and not curative. And that's the key here.

SPEAKER_02: 26:19

I love that. Esther, you are amazing as always. And I'm truly, I love your Instagram. I just feel like speaks to just the core of what we're all experiencing. So tell our listeners where to find you, how to connect. We know you're just in California license, correct? So this is not like Esther can't be everybody's therapist as much as we'd want her to be, unless you're in California. But tell us where to find you.

SPEAKER_00: 26:42

Everybody can find me on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, everywhere on social media. And my handle is Golden Tears Therapy. That's my practice name as well. So if you want to check out my website, that's goldentearstherapy.com.

SPEAKER_02: 26:58

I'll link everything, Esther. I appreciate you as always. And thank you for just, you know, as we we're starting this new year, being real and honest and supportive, um, what moms really need. Thank you so much. It was great to be back. Okay, guys, we'll be back next week. So have a wonderful week.

SPEAKER_01: 27:18

Maternal mental health is as important as physical health. The Preview Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables, like anxiety, anger, and even apathy. Hosted by CEO, founder Sarah Parkers, and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay, each episode focuses on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum. Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms. You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time. Please know you're not alone on this journey. We're here to help.