SPEAKER_02: 0:09

Hi guys, welcome to Preview Alliance Podcast. We're well into 2026, and I'm back with our favorite maternal mental health therapist, who you guys can be jealous because I have her on speed dial and I use that speed dial. So welcome, Whitney.

SPEAKER_03: 0:23

You should because how many questions have I asked you as a nurse? Being like, hey, can I do this? What about this?

SPEAKER_02: 0:28

This is also a reason why Whitney's not my therapist, is because I can give her the down low and she gently lead and correct me in my life as a friend.

SPEAKER_03: 0:37

So I can give you therapist and friend Whitney.

SPEAKER_02: 0:40

You get both you can say, check your crazy at the door, and this is what's really going on with you. Right. So on that topic, Whitney, there was this. We like to share reels, we like to share, you know, full Instagram quotes with each other. And so one thing that came up and that I felt called out was, and I've talked to Whitney about this, but it's like, let's bring us a podcast because we can't be lonely ones, is sometimes if a you text a friend, a new friend, or maybe it's a neighbor, or you're emailing your boss or a coworker or whatever.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14

And the response is delayed. You feel like you've been left on read, as the kids say, you automatically, or sometimes me, maybe not you guys, but go through this kind of pattern in your head of saying, Did I do something wrong? You reread it a couple of times, could I have offended them? Right. You replay maybe a previous conversation or two. Right. You kind of jump to, are they mad? What's going on? Catastrophizing it, right? Where you automatically assume that person maybe's mad, they're leaving you, or you've did something wrong.

SPEAKER_03: 1:56

Right. Well, and there's so much with that is, you know, maybe in our middle school, high school days, you know, maybe that started happening where we got excluded from a friend group and we kept trying and we kept trying and we were left unread, or we got ignored when we were at school, things like that. So even if it's one of those in mom life, you know, you can read a text and be like, oh, okay, I see that. And then in our mind, we respond, we have our response in our head, but then our kid spills something or someone yells for mom, or whatever the case is, the distraction takes place. And in our mind, we're like, Oh, I responded, but we didn't actually put the response in the text. And then the other person is like, Did I go too far? Did I overstep a boundary? Did I push them away? And they start to ruminate and they start to panic, and we start to have that worst-case scenario thinking, all of those things because it feels like it did when we were a teenager or a kid. Or, you know, sometimes our parents use silent treatment as a punishment, and it takes us back to maybe six-year-old us, and our brain has the same chemical reaction as when we were experiencing that.

SPEAKER_02: 3:15

And I've read something the other day, it's like, you know, when you are almost in that flight flight, or your nervous system, right, goes back to that moment. So your parent used that silent punishment to you. So you did something wrong, and that's how you knew mom or dad was mad at you. I got quiet. So you knew so your brain is not in that moment able to say, okay, wait, I'm a 30-something year old mom. You know, this is what's actually going wrong. I know I've done this wrong. Like your nervous system truly is like, I'm six, I've done something wrong, I don't know what's wrong. Mom's not talking to me. And it really kind of distorts your ability to think through something.

SPEAKER_03: 3:56

Oh, absolutely. Well, and that's because when we have that peak in cortisol, that is that panic hormone, that is that anxiety hormone that makes us hyper-vigilant. And when we're hyper-vigilant, we are hyper-aware.

SPEAKER_01: 4:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 4:12

Because again, when we look back at our ancestors, where we came from is like cave people, hunter-gatherers. Guess what? They literally had to fight for survival. So hyper-vigilance means they had to be hyper-aware of their surroundings. In the here and now, when we're hyper-aware of our surroundings, we're paying attention to everything. Every tiny little thing has our focus. Catches our eye. Now, to that, when we're hyper-vigilant, our anxiety is in overdrive. So then we overthink everything.

SPEAKER_02: 4:52

Yeah. And I do think, you know, too, if maybe it wasn't a silent treatment, but like if you grew up and like little mistakes were never forgiven as a child, or like you never felt like you could make a mistake, or you had to be the peacekeeper, or you had to be responsible for your parents' feelings. Like your parents could not emotionally regulate, or maybe it's your sibling or whoever it was, or an aunt or somebody or friend in your life, right? Where you felt that you had to keep the peace, you had to earn a love or approval, right? Like small mistakes ended a friendship or relationship when in reality, true relationships, one off mistake or one thing is not going to be relationship ending. Now, if it's an unhealthy relationship, yeah, one thing probably may end it, but that's a bigger story.

SPEAKER_03: 5:44

Absolutely. Well, and that's the thing, too, is we have to remind ourselves if it's a small thing, then it's forgivable. Yeah. You know, if it's one of those, like there's an affair involved, there's lying, there's gossiping. Like when we go to those extremes, yeah, that would end a friendship and it should.

SPEAKER_01: 6:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 6:04

You know, that that is betrayal territory. But if it's one of those, they forgot to respond to the text. Or maybe they had to cancel plans last minute. Things like that. It's unfortunate, it's disappointing, it is frustrating. Yes, it is. And you're allowed to feel those things, but that is not something where you would panic and want to end the friendship over.

SPEAKER_02: 6:27

Right. No. And I think too, it is the I read this too, as saying, you know, so like you said, you're scanning for threats. So five silence can feel like rejection to your nervous system. If a delay test can feel like anger, maybe they're angry, right? And a mistake feels like a permanent loss. And it said your emotional alarm system fires long before your logical mind. So generally, when this happens, I'll talk about myself. You can share about your clients. What do they do when they're feeling this? They pull back, right? You go recluse and you're like, oop, okay, am I, I'm just gonna hide in my little shell. And you don't tend to ask yourself what else could be true in this situation.

SPEAKER_03: 7:13

Right. Well, and it's hard for us to do that because when we are so anxious, we are tunnel visioned. And this isn't even ADHD specific because I know hyperfixation gets associated with ADHD. We're gonna put that over to the side, okay? This can happen to anybody regardless of an ADHD diagnosis, okay? But that hyperfixation, we tunnel vision on that, and that is all we focus on because we also want to fix it.

SPEAKER_02: 7:43

Yes, your brain, I think, and that's something I had to come to realize, is like just in anything. Like, say if it's not even on this with friendships, is with our child, our child's going through something, right? How many times have you been doing something totally different, like in the Chick-fil-A line or something? You're just a thought of like, okay, what can I do to help my kid get through this? Or like, how could this situation like you your brain, or at least my brain at times, is not comfortable with not knowing that end answer.

SPEAKER_03: 8:10

Right. Well, that's anxiety, yeah. You know, anxiety wants to try and fix things, it wants to see things from all angles and any potential angles that we don't know exist.

SPEAKER_01: 8:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 8:23

Okay. I mean, there is the joke of if you're ever in a disaster, find the anxious person because we already planned out about 20 worst-case scenarios and we got our exit plans in place. Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 8:35

Totally. We have stressed. That's never appreciated. Okay. That's never thanked or appreciated that we are ready for any danger opportunity.

SPEAKER_03: 8:44

I'm just saying, if the zombie apocalypse does go down, y'all best be finding you some Enneagram ones in type A's because we know what we're doing.

SPEAKER_02: 8:52

We've already backstocked, we've already thought any which way. And it is so, I mean, my husband, he will just be like, look at me sometimes and be like, You're going there? I'm like, your brain doesn't go there.

SPEAKER_03: 9:03

And like, your brain's not go there.

SPEAKER_02: 9:07

And I think that's again, I go back to the caveman, I'm like, well, you would be eaten by the lion, and I wouldn't at this point.

SPEAKER_03: 9:13

Right. So, you know, anxiety is meant to protect us, it is meant to look out for us, to help us be successful and survive. However, it is very self-sabotaging and destructive when it only can hyperfixate on things and it won't let you deviate. That is where anxiety can be very draining.

SPEAKER_02: 9:38

So, how do you get past that?

SPEAKER_03: 9:42

It's really hard when we look at interpersonal dynamics because the other person's reactions, words, feelings, it is totally out of our control. Now, to ease that side of it, you're also not accountable for how that person acts. They're accountable for themselves, but it's also very challenging because we would love to reconcile. We would love to figure out where did the miscommunication come from or the misunderstanding come from. And what we need to do with that is kind of go back to square one of grounding ourselves of have I done everything within my control to resolve or fix the situation? Have I fully explained or clarified this is what I meant by it? Is that what you heard?

SPEAKER_01: 10:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 10:30

And I mean, those are not pleasant conversations, but yep, I will give you that. It is not a pleasant conversation, but it's necessary.

SPEAKER_02: 10:39

Yeah. No, that's true. And then how do you have any tricks for just stopping that continuous thought of rumination of like, okay, I keep thinking about this even if I don't want to think about this?

SPEAKER_03: 10:51

Well, and that's when we actually have to distract our brain a little bit. So this might be where we use the called pack technique. Or you get sour candy or something like that, and you get a little jolt to the central nervous system. We have to do something to break that train of thought. Maybe you need to go for a walk. Yeah. Maybe you need to go play with your kids. You have to go do something to break your train of thought. It's not just gonna end on its own.

SPEAKER_02: 11:20

Right. And that I think is what's so crazy is that, you know, you're never taught that A, you can control your thoughts, which if you guys pause this for a second. If you guys have not listened to the thoughts we think, we did this last January, which is really we broke down several types of thoughts. I highly encourage you to go back to that because recognizing what you think is not always true, and your brain will lie to you is a huge step in realizing you have to tell it what's true. Absolutely. You can't trust yourself sometimes with that. Oh, yeah. Sometimes we can't trust our brains. But you would never, you've I never heard that. I never was told that until just deep diving into maternal mental health is you know, from a biblical aspect all the to just very realistic, if that's not where you're at. Your thoughts have so much power in how it shapes how you see your day, how your body reacts, how your nervous system. But if you're listening, you're going, okay, there's a situation, I keep thinking about it. Some other practical tips besides we love Whitney's crowd meeting. So always have that, you know, we can always have a sour patch, you can always have hand sanitizer to smell, you can always even gum. If you're in the grocery store and you're like, why do I keep thinking about this situation at work? My gosh, grab a frozen corn, lay it on the back of your neck. Right, do something, but do it, you know, move on with it. And something I think that is Whitney, you've talked about this for is challenging it. It's just like, what else could be true?

SPEAKER_03: 12:58

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 13:01

Yeah. What is it? They're busy, they didn't see the message, they're tired, they're kids sick, nothing is wrong.

SPEAKER_03: 13:07

This is just life, right? And that is probably the more realistic answer. Yeah, yeah. Chances are probably about 90% of the time. Worst case scenario is not the actual truth.

SPEAKER_02: 13:23

Correct. And you know, I've realized too, if the worst case scenario does come, then you will deal with the worst case scenario when it does come. Like, like that's the thing. It's like every time the worst has happened to you, you feel like you've you've not run away from it, you've you've lived in it and you've dealt with it. So that version of you that day will deal with it, not the version today. Right. So that always gave me some power. I think name the feeling instead of believing the thought. And I think that's really powerful too, right? There's a difference between, I feel scared, Whitney, that they're upset with me versus they are upset with me, Whitney. Like, right? Like, why am I making it a fact when I'm not just saying what I'm feeling to you about it? Right.

SPEAKER_03: 14:08

Well, I mean, part of it is anxiety really does love definite stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 14:14

Ooh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 14:15

And of course, anxiety wants the worst case scenario to be definite.

SPEAKER_02: 14:20

And that is, and that is so twisted. It's so horrible.

SPEAKER_03: 14:24

It is it makes us go even more crazy. Yeah, I don't disagree with you at all on that. Like it is twisted. That's anxiety for you. It absolutely is. And here's the thing, too. If we can say, oh, they really are mad at me, this really is a big problem. Well, definitive. So anxiety is like, boom, we're not spiraling. We know that this is for sure it. And it lines up with my worst case scenario thinking so told you so.

SPEAKER_01: 14:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 14:52

And then it's like, let's fix it. But again, until that person confirms that it is the worst case scenario, anxiety is going to lock in and say, yep, that's it right there. That's gotta be it. There's no other way. There's no other way.

SPEAKER_02: 15:08

Because it feels, you know, self-sabotage, right? It's like you feel better knowing the end result when you self-sabotage something for those people versus just going and being vulnerable with it. So I guess it goes back again too. It's like that self-protection mechanism of, well, I'm gonna plan for the worse and I'll assume the worse. And I won't have the rug pulled out from me like I did in the past, or I want I can leave the situation before I'm left. Right. It's very again, kind of just really twisted, Whitney, how we go to this. And I think too, in general, we tend to not as a society expect or see the best in each other. I think we're so it's social media, it's just kind of the the toxicity that's we've post-COVID that we all got isolated and we forget how to be in a community together and coexist. It's easier just to paint the other person as the villain.

SPEAKER_03: 16:03

Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, no one wants to be the villain. No, no, no one wants to be the villain, therefore, everybody else is the bad guy.

unknown: 16:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 16:15

And either I'm the hero or I'm the victim. Or some little combination of two. But you have to be real careful with that because that is very narcissistic thinking.

SPEAKER_01: 16:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 16:28

And here's the thing: even if you can say, Well, I'm not the one that ended the friendship, fair enough, you may not have been the one to call it off. But did you contribute? Whether you intended to or not, did you contribute? And it's not fun to ask that question. I know I probably stepped on some toes just then. I get it.

SPEAKER_01: 16:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 16:51

But we do need to take a moment to look inward and say, genuinely, when I read back on the text thread, when I replay these conversations, did I do something that came across wrong? Did I say something in out of anger? And now I have those regrets. Did I not communicate clearly? That happens all the time. And when those things happen, misunderstandings, miscommunications happen, feelings get hurt. And then the friendship can honestly kind of fizzle out or blow up or whatever. So while it's not fun to look inwardly, it's not fun to hold ourselves accountable. It is necessary.

SPEAKER_02: 17:35

Yeah. And you know, emotionally mature people can accept accountability, own it, and you know, say, okay, this is my part in it, and say, I'm sorry. And it really is the actions forward, you know, that really is going to show if that relationship can withstand and if you can recover. And I think in closing of this, you know, is when you're also going through this, realizing what is healthy and what's not. And sometimes situations like this do show you what's a healthy relationship, what's not. And, you know, if you can always go back to why is this triggering me, you can deep dive with the therapist and talk about maybe it was with that parent that was a silent treatment and you couldn't make a mistake. So you always feel like you're under a microscope, everything you do. Or it was that relationship that ended suddenly with no closure, that you now expect that. Or it is that you are dealing with anxiety more than you recognize you are. And it is a situation like that that says, Hey, I'm more anxious. Why? And right, you know, I would say how we talk to ourselves, we should talk to ourselves like a friend, right? We're human, you know, we can take accountability. We can give ourselves grace and give the other person grace in this situation.

SPEAKER_03: 18:57

Oh, absolutely. Well, and the thing is, we're all humans. We are all gonna miss the mark at some point. It happens, and we're all gonna do something wrong, misspeak, whatever it is, and that's okay. But we should be able to take a little bit of accountability and say, Hey, yes, this hurts. Yes, it is frustrating, but I also did this wrong. Yeah, and that's how you would tell it to a friend. You would validate and empathize and then say, But you know what? I can see where when you said this, that could be you know perceived as this.

SPEAKER_01: 19:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 19:35

Again, not just mean or anything, but like it's valid.

SPEAKER_02: 19:39

It is all valid, and I think these are hard conversations. I think a lot of people go through it themselves, and hopefully this conversation, as open and transparent as we are, can help some people just to realize, you know, um, what more could be going on. But then it's also there's some people I've come across my life, they've done something very textbook scene, they have no whatevers, no second thought about it. And I think it's wild that there's people on all levels of the spectrum.

SPEAKER_03: 20:12

Because us ones, our biggest core fear of being wrong or perceived as wrong or bad could never.

SPEAKER_02: 20:19

Could never, and then you see someone else, you're like, you're living your best life so unpazed. They're evering so much more than we could. Thousand percent. But we'll we'll deep dive into them and into another episode. But guys, hopefully this was helpful again. If you've never listened to our What Your Thoughts Are series, we did a really great one early 2025. Go back and listen to those, and it can really help deep dive into like what your thoughts are and don't believe every thought. And hey, just because they don't respond right away, work, text, email, whatever. Don't panic. Don't panic. Don't panic. Key word, don't panic. Okay, guys, we'll be back next week. All right, see ya. Maternal mental health is as important as physical health. The Preview Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables like anxiety, anger, and even apnea. Hosted by CEO, founder Sarah Parkers, and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay, each episode focuses on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum. Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms. You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time. Please know you're not alone on this journey. We're here to help.