SPEAKER_01: 0:09

Hi guys, welcome back to Preview Alliance Podcast. This is Sarah, and I'm so excited today. We are bringing back she has been so influential in my life about formula in general, and I love everything she stands for. And you guys probably know her from her personal kind of combo we had. Gosh, probably a year, maybe a year and a half ago. But I'm bringing back Mallory. She's a formula mom. And guess what? You wrote a book and we're gonna talk about it. Thank you so much for having me back. I'm so excited. Well, we are so excited because, you know, your reels are amazing, um, all your information is, but like, you know, we're ready for like, you know, like moms on call, kind of like that book that saved my life a little bit. But like, we're ready for that performula.

SPEAKER_00: 0:56

I mean, that's my hope. My hope is that it becomes the mom's on call for for formula feeding, that this is like the go-to book that people are like, you know, talking to friends and someone's like, I think we're gonna introduce formula, and they're like, You need this book. That's that's the goal.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11

Well, I see it, believe it, and we're claiming it. So I am again so grateful you come back on and just for being in this day and age, just a sound voice that you can trust. You've been there, you've done it, you've lived it, and now you're educating us.

SPEAKER_00: 1:28

Yeah, it is a wild time to be a parent trying to find research-based and reasonable and trustworthy information on the internet.

SPEAKER_01: 1:38

Absolutely. Well, let's dive right in. I think I have an idea, but why did you feel like bottle service? Which I love the title, hello, bottle service. Like people are gonna be like, wait, is Mallory at a club in Miami with like bottle girls, or is this like, you know, this is now I see moms and dads in the middle of the night for him being like bottle service, you know, as they're preparing the formula. So why did you think this needed to come out into life? And why now?

SPEAKER_00: 2:08

And what do you hope for it? Yeah, absolutely. So my oldest will be 10 this year, which is really hard to believe. And bottle service is the book that I went looking for in 2016 after she was born, and breastfeeding did not work for a variety of reasons, and I desperately needed to sort of reclaim control as part of, you know, struggling with postpartum depression. And I thought, if there was just a book that could tell me how to do this and make me feel like I could do this successfully, I think it would help in just about every area of my life at that time. And there wasn't anything. And, you know, that was a big the impetus for me starting the Formula Mom several years later was realizing that there really, there really wasn't um high-quality, evidence-based, supportive information out there, and also that I wasn't the only one who was looking for it. And so bottle service is really the book of my heart for the mom that I was in 2016 and the moms that I see now and have seen for the last five years doing this work. And I also think in this particular cultural moment, parents are struggling to know can we still trust the FDA? Can we still trust the CDC? Where do we go for research-backed, trustworthy information? Because some of those agencies that have always been sort of the pinnacle or the standard aren't operating the same way that they used to be. And that's, you know, creating anxiety and concern among some parents. And so I think even though I could have used the book 10 years ago, I think it's more important than ever right now.

SPEAKER_01: 3:48

Yeah, perfect timing. And you know, one thing I think people and I've struggled with, and I knew you've un and it, guys, if you've not listened to Mallory's first episode with me, you guys got to go back to it. But the guilt and the shame and its moralized issue in motherhood, which is so wild to me. But why do you think formula is like the F-word that people just freak out about?

SPEAKER_00: 4:13

Yeah, I think I think we all internalize, or it's easy rather, to internalize a lot of the messaging that we hear from our OBs and our pediatricians and from the internet and social media and our in-laws and our friends. And we've seen a big swing in the last, you know, 10, 15, even 20 years, where, you know, formula was really normalized in the 80s and 90s. And then in the early 2000s and into 2010, we saw this big push for breast as best and baby-friendly hospitals. And I think uh encouraging people, educating people about the benefits of breast milk is great. Giving people who want to breastfeed support is exactly what we need. But I think the pendulum swung a little too far. Like it was too extreme toward formula at first, and now it has gotten very extreme toward breastfeeding. And it has become this sort of like cultural narrative that, and even just even beyond breastfeeding, the cultural narrative is that a good mom sacrifices everything that she can or everything that she must for her kids in order to be a good mom. And breastfeeding is really the first ask. Maybe the first ask is, you know, pregnancy and you know, potentially having an unmedicated birth and whatever. But it's right there at the very beginning, and it feels sometimes like a litmus test of are you going to be a good mom or not by sacrificing in this way. And of course, that ignores that many people, it's not a choice. They're not choosing to breastfeed or formula feed. They're, you know, in one camp or another because of various contexts. So all of that to say that was very long-winded, but I I do think it gets moralized. I think it gets tied into a greater sort of societal conversation about what makes a good mom and how that is specifically related to sacrifice versus perceived selfishness.

SPEAKER_01: 6:17

No, and you know, I remember just pressure because my oldest was NICU. And I mean, I remember in the NICU them saying, you know, if you want him out, you need to breastfeed. And no one had told me, you know, I wasn't making milk at a traumatic birth, and I was killing myself trying to make milk. And then staring at the ounces made my type A self lose her mind. And I felt like a failure. And I hear from so many moms of just like, well, I can't say if it's your second or third. I how can I be for my other kids? Or how can I work and do this? Or some who goes, you know, I had postporan depression in my first, and this is why I do not want to breastfeed the second time. It's because my mental health matters. To your point, and we talked about this a lot in previous, is the mental health benefits of not breastfeeding sometimes is never talked about openly.

SPEAKER_00: 7:11

Yeah, it's tough because a lot of the research and a lot of the information that gets shared on social media is that breastfeeding is protective against mental health. And there are certainly studies that show like breastfeeding promotes oxytocin release and that is a feel-good hormone and all of this. But the research also shows that if breastfeeding is not going well, or if there's a mismatch between the expectations and goals versus the reality, that that's incredibly detrimental to mental health. And I think you're right, it's it's not talked about enough. I know for me, we decided to formula feed exclusively with our son, our second child, specifically as an attempt to try to control as many factors as possible with the hopes of not experiencing postpartum depression again, or to the extent that I did with my first. And so, you know, I you'll never hear me say, oh, I didn't breastfeed because I don't, I didn't want postpartum depression. But in thinking about individual factors, like I knew if by formula fed that my husband and I could split the night shift and that I could get five hours of consolidated sleep every single night without having to wake up to nurse or pump, that was a huge issue. You know, that was a huge factor. I knew that I would have every medication option available to me if I was formula feeding. I knew that I could, you know, do my once-a-week therapy session and you know, twice a week working out without having to worry that I needed to pump or I couldn't be away from my baby because they might be cluster feeding and need to nurse and being able to do therapy, being able to work out. Those were important factors in terms of protecting my mental health. And even just, you know, allowing my body to get back into sort of homeostasis hormonally more quickly versus, you know, having higher prolactin and and all of the other, you know, hormones that are at play in order to keep producing milk. And then just also just having having my body belong to me again felt really important to me in terms of protecting my mental health. And so uh formula feeding allowed me to prioritize the things that I knew were going to be really protective, and they were, and it was without a doubt the right decision. I have never regretted it for a single second. He, my son, too, was so much better for it for having a healthy, engaged, loving, bonded mom.

SPEAKER_01: 9:38

Yeah, no, and I think to your point, you know, with our first ones, I think we didn't plan on formula. Like I think a lot of people come into something and that's not on their mind. And I'm very open with anybody, and we talked about this a lot in previous. If you're first baby, you need to have an educated knowledge about formula. And they'll look at me, but I'm not gonna use it. And I said, Okay, well, I thought the same thing. And then you're standing at Walmart aisle at 3 a.m. or your phone, your husband's there and you're on the phone and you're crying, the baby's crying. He's going, What do you want me to do? I don't know how to do this. And I realized I was like, How do I even make a bottle? So, what does your book do for those situations that people are like, Well, I'm smelling, I'm not gonna be in that. And it's like, oh, never say never, my friend.

SPEAKER_00: 10:25

Yes, yeah. Uh the experience that you're describing is so common. I had it as well. It was like 9:30 p.m. at a Kroger, and I was like maybe a week and a half postpartum and recovering from a C-section and could still like barely walk. And I was like, This is not how I pictured this going. Um, but yeah, so there's a chapter in my book, it's in the intro section before we even get into the sort of like the deep educational content and tips and tricks about preparing for feeding before birth. And it's split between folks who know that they want to introduce formula at some point and folks who don't intend to use formula, but who want to be educated and prepared. And I think it's always wise to have knowledge that you might not need than to need knowledge and not have it, especially when you are sleep deprived and hormonal and recovering from a major medical event and trying to take care of a baby and like no one's brain is working optimally. Even outside of postpartum depression, just like the brain fog and the sleep deprivation, like no one's making their best decisions in that moment. And so my encouragement is always do your research, get one can of formula, have it on hand. If you don't end up using it, donate it to a shelter, donate it to somebody on Facebook Marketplace. But it's it's so much better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. And the goal with the book is to provide not only, you know, the that really research-based, you know, what is formula and how do you choose a formula and all of that, but also I call them quick tips in the book. So, how do you make a bottle? How do you set up a feeding station? How do you reduce foam if you're you know mixing your formula, things that a tired mom or dad can read in three minutes and make their life better today? Because that's what I needed. I didn't have the energy to do like an online course. Like I needed someone to hold my hand and be like, for this moment, this is what you're doing and you're gonna be successful. And so that's what I that's what I did here.

SPEAKER_01: 12:26

I mean, people are people are gonna, I remember Dan, okay, wait, wait, wait, water first, then power, you know, like little things like that, but you're second guessing yourself. And then if you've never done it, and then you know, then you hear stories of like, oh no, my nanny did it this way. And it's like, well, because there's no education about this, right? Yeah. And that's the key with anything is, you know, truly empowerment. And to your credits, like, here you are giving so much free education on your Instagram, my gosh, that I've personally benefited from. But this book is something now. Grandparents can read, you know, you can have that on the counter. You have a babysitter, you can go through the quick tips. Such a resource in hand, pass it down, and it grows with you, correct? So it's not just so the audience is like, well, do I need this when I have babies like five months? Yeah, you do.

SPEAKER_00: 13:19

Yes, yes, you do. Yeah. It's broken down into sections based on baby age and common concerns and questions for each of those segments. So zero to three months, three to six, six to nine, nine to twelve. And I'm particularly excited about the sort of six to twelve month portion of the book because I feel like now, and especially, you know, through my own work, there's more information about how do you choose a formula and how do you get started and how might you supplement. But there does not seem to be a lot of information out there currently about how do you balance formula with solids and what does it look like to start dropping bottles? And how do you switch out formula for milk at the first year? And, you know, why can breastfeeding moms keep breastfeeding until their baby's two or longer, if desired, by both parties? But they're telling me I have to be done with bottles by 18 months at the latest. And so I'm so thrilled that the book includes all of that information too, because you know, with a baby, the minute you get comfortable with something, their needs change. And so it really walks you through the feeding journey from the very start to the very end of that first year.

SPEAKER_01: 14:26

So thankful for that because I, you know, with and we we go, I go back to mental health is at our core, is like I feel like there's so much attention again to zero to three, and then we leave moms from four to one, you know, yeah. One year postpartum. That's like, okay, good luck. We've, you know, we cut the cord and we let her fly, but there it's your is so much of okay, but now they're teething. Okay, what this bottle refusal, okay. Wait, now this formula is not working. Yes, my God, what's it? There's what's the changes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 14:55

Or you're going back to work and you're, you know, trying to figure out how to navigate it with a nanny or with daycare. Yeah, it it's really difficult. And it's true. Like after that that fourth trimester, that first like three or four months, it's kind of like, okay, good luck. And so I, you know, parents still need support after that.

SPEAKER_01: 15:16

And on that support, which I recently learned, you know her, there is an influencer who said she kind of made, I don't think it's controversial, but apparently the internet did. That formula is my village comment. Yes, yes. Why do you think that triggered so many people? I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm like, whoa, it did feel a certain way.

SPEAKER_00: 15:36

Yeah, I had mentioned Chan and the boys is the handle. She's a good friend of mine. We worked together 10 plus years ago, before long before any of us had kids and and were doing this. And it did trigger a lot of people. And, you know, looking through her comments, it's all of the same people that have been critical of my content, that I have received a lot of, you know, for a minute I was gonna hesitate to say harassment, but in some cases it has been harassment over the past five years. And I think I think that she called out a truth that a lot of us experience, which is that we don't live in multi-generational homes anymore. We don't live in neighborhood communities like our parents might have. We, you know, so many of us are working remotely. We don't even have coworkers hardly. We don't live in a society that supports one another the way that we used to see generations ago. And so for some of us, that means that we have to figure out how to take care of ourselves, you know, solely as an individual family unit. And sometimes that looks like I can't spend 1800 hours this year nursing this baby when I have, you know, she has three other living boys that are all under the age of like seven, I think. And so yeah, so I think her calling out that, you know, in the absence of a village, I have to make choices that allow me to support all of my kids equally, and formula is the best choice for me. And I really appreciate the courage that it takes to say that in this current climate on social media, but also, you know, even amid all of the trolling, there were a lot of folks that really resonated with that and that felt, you know, freedom to hear someone else articulate what they themselves have felt, which is that in the absence of support and a true village, breastfeeding is not as straightforward or simple or reasonable as it may otherwise could have been.

SPEAKER_01: 17:49

No, completely agree it. And I think there was, you know, always the negatives, the loudest, right? But to your point, there is so many people like, gosh, same, thank you. Like almost like I didn't know how to verbalize it, and you said it for me.

SPEAKER_00: 18:01

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 18:03

I love that. One thing I've been read, you know, I've read it's an expert of your book. I'm gonna get the full book when it comes out, I'll link everything listeners, don't worry. But one thing is people just saying, you know, how affirming and compassionate that your book is and how they feel just emotionally better, I think, which is a you know, a lack of better words after they've engaged with you and your book and your content. And was that the goal? Was that just you, you know, that you never felt and I didn't feel right with their first was just like no one just kind of wrapping their arms around you and be like, let me walk you through this.

SPEAKER_00: 18:42

Yes, that was absolutely the goal. And I had a proud moment now that the book is starting to get in the hands of advanced readers and and all of that. Publishers Weekly did a review, and their concluding line was parents will feel informed and affirmed. And I was like, Yes, I did it. That was the goal. Informed and affirmed. I want people to walk away from the book feeling like I have given them a hug and said, You're doing a great job. Feeling like they have sat down with me at the table and I have given them all of the information that they need to know to feel confident in what they're doing, that they're they can feed safely and successfully, and that they're a good parent while doing it. That was really the hope. And to see already that it's landing that way is like, oh, it's such a joy. It's such a joy.

SPEAKER_01: 19:31

Well, knowing you and knowing your work, I cannot see how it wouldn't land that way. And I think it's just the voice so needed in this climate, like you said. Now, one thing too that I love is the book is very big on confidence over perfection. Now, I'm a perfectionist. I'm like, what do you mean? What do you mean? You're triggering me saying I can't be what I'm supposed to be. But what does confident feeding look like to you in real life? And they're like, okay, like what you know, what is getting it right from Mallory the Formula? Like, what's that picture of the mind?

SPEAKER_00: 20:07

Yeah, oh, I love this question because I too, I I call myself a recovering perfectionist, and nothing has humbled me more than motherhood. Yes. In in, you know, uh challenging my desire for perfection because it's oh, it's just so humbling how how difficult it is to try to do everything right. I don't think it's it's possible to do everything quote unquote right, according to you know, all of the experts on the internet. But confidence over perfection means that you know how to safely feed your baby, so that you are doing what you need to do to provide appropriate nutrition and minimize risks, and that you know that the choice that you're making is the right one for your family, whether that's for your individual baby because they have an allergy and you couldn't breastfeed, or because you need medication for your mental health, or because you go back to work after three weeks, or you know, anything, whatever the reasons may be, or you just don't want to breastfeed. That's perfectly valid too. So confidence over perfection to me means you know what you're doing and you're making the right choice for your family so that you and your baby can thrive. Because sometimes I think when we seek perfection, the only benchmark we're looking at is is it perfect for my baby? Am I doing the exact right thing for my baby at the expense of what is perfect or right or best for us as the parent. And we know, and you know, you know, because you work in this space, that we can't separate those two things, that my thriving as a mom or lack of impacts whether my baby can thrive and vice versa. And so yeah, confidence over perfection means that everybody gets a chance to thrive.

SPEAKER_01: 21:57

I love that. And that's gonna be my new motto with a lot of things. From carbon take a fly to sports. Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 22:03

Oh, what to make, yes, what to make for dinner.

SPEAKER_01: 22:06

Oh, yeah. And it's it's just so refreshing to have just an honest conversation where if the mom is on the fence or maybe they're having a discussion, get the book, read the book, have the book.

SPEAKER_00: 22:17

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I think something else that I'm proud of with the book is there's a lot of information in there about combo feeding. And what we know from CDC data is that by six months, 75% of US parents have introduced formula in some capacity, which is the great majority, right? Um, but we also know that a lot of those families are still breastfeeding. So they're not exclusively formula feeding. And there historically hasn't been a ton of good information about that either. It has always been framed as sort of this either or, you know, you're in this camp or you're in this camp and the camps hate each other, you know, sort of situation. When in reality, it can be so much more flexible than that, where you sometimes give a bottle of formula if you're, you know, out of town, or you just send formula to daycare, but you nurse at night, or you just do a bottle of formula at night so a partner can help, and then you pump or whatever. That it doesn't have to be, again, it doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't have to be so primary. So I also, you know, recommend the book for people that are in that camp where they're like, I think I'm going to primarily breastfeed, but I want to have the option or I want to have the flexibility, or I even just, you know, I don't know what's going to happen in the future. And I want my baby to be acclimated to the taste of formula and be able to use a bottle in case we need to do that. Yeah. So yeah, it really uh, of course I'm biased, but the goal is to really support any sort of bottle feeding journey, no matter how big of a part formula might play in it.

SPEAKER_01: 23:44

Well, tell us what's next after the book. Where does Mallory formula mom go from here?

SPEAKER_00: 23:50

That is the question. You know, everything has been sort of laddering up to the book for so long. This feels like a big year for me. I mentioned my daughter is turning 10, I'm turning 40, and so this will mark, you know, a decade of uh really living in this space of the feeding journey and the post-postpartum depression and what it looks like to turn my experience into into something that can be supportive of others who are experiencing the same thing. And so yeah, I've started to think about, you know, what what does that look like now that I'm almost 10 years removed, which is wild. Um but honestly, I can't, I can't even really, I can't even really think about there being something beyond this work because it's been such a meaningful and life-giving and important piece of my my life for the last, you know, five years as the formula mom, 10 years as a mom myself. So we'll see. We'll see.

SPEAKER_01: 24:51

I love that. Well, I'll ask you one final question. This is can be book related or just you related, but you know, now we are 10 years removed. What would you go back and tell Mallory 10 years ago as she starts her motherhood journey now that you have a decade in?

SPEAKER_00: 25:07

Oh man, there's there's so much. I mean, first and foremost, I would just like wrap her up in a hug and try to tell her how this was all going to turn out because you know, 2016 Mallory would not have remotely believed it. And, you know, as as cliche as this may sound, given my work, I would have told my 2020 sixteen to stop breastfeeding sooner. You know, I we hear a lot about sometimes moms don't want to quit nursing or don't want to switch to formula because they're afraid they'll have regrets. And what we don't talk about nearly enough, but I see it in my DMs from you know, hundreds, thousands of parents, is the regret that some of us have that we lost those really precious weeks or months with our babies that we can't get back because of the really draining and for some of us traumatizing effort that we put in trying to breastfeed. And that, yeah, that's a real regret that I have sometimes. And especially, you know, having had such a better experience with my son, I feel sad that my daughter didn't get that version of me for a very long time. So I would wrap her up and I would say, You're not gonna believe this, but your life will start improving the minute you you switch to formula. So let's go ahead and do that.

SPEAKER_01: 26:32

No, I think that's a point that again I resonate with is I look back and I'm going, I just I wish I would have someone would have told me that. Hey Sarah, like quit trying to power pump, let it go. You know, it's okay. He's gonna be great. And they line up, like they say in kindergarten, you cannot tell the difference between breath or formula. You can't even tell the difference between their eating solids, you know. It's just it is to be, you know, to be honest. So I I love that you say that. I feel that. And I think if we can share that, hopefully this podcast, this your book will hit the ears of somebody who will in that moment make that decision that me and you were informed to make at that time. Yeah, that's the hope. Absolutely. Well, Mallory, we we love you. We love all this. We wish you nothing but success. Listeners, I will link everything where to find her on Instagram, where to buy our book, and we will follow along eagerly and support you and cheer you on, my friend.

SPEAKER_00: 27:34

Well, thank you so much. I always love getting the chance to talk with you and appreciate your support for the work in the book.

SPEAKER_01: 27:40

Always. All right, listeners, I will link everything. Y'all have a great week. Maternal mental health is as important as physical health. The Preview Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables, like anxiety, anger, and even apathy. Hosted by CEO, founder Sarah Parkhurst, and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay, each episode focuses on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum. Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms. You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time. Please know you're not alone on this journey. We're here to help.