Welcome And The Term Drops

SPEAKER_02 0:09

Hi guys, welcome to Preview Alliance Podcast. This is Sarah, and I'm back with our favorite. I'm not going to even just say material mental health therapist. I think that limits you therapist Whitney. Hey guys. We off camera had a little bit of a conversation. We'll get into it, but I was like, Whitney, pause. We need to record this because we cannot be the only people that are experiencing this. And a very popular series on point of this was our narcissistic personality. What is it? How to deal with one. You guys loved it because I think we're all dealing with one of some way in our lives. And so Whitney dropped a term on me that was like, hold up, tell everybody about it.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

So backstory, I was sharing about some patterns and actions of a person that has been, and you know, it's like those people that through your kids, if it's sports teams or school or work environment, let's say you don't have kids yet, that you're like, be around this person, but I have to be around this person because of these events or this organization. Right. And you start kind of seeing people being like fangirling them, fanboying them.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

They're amazing, really making them something bigger than what they actually are.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

And you're going, oh, I'm you know, and then my first impression of this person was something's not right. I don't know what it is. The eyes, I think a lot of things are held in people's eyes, and this person's eyes were beady. I said, as they were just like, you know, and they would like be part of a conversation, but they're always watching the conversation to the side of them. I just felt like that ick inside of you rise up. And funny, I was telling you what I was like, but these people were just like, oh, enamored. And I'm going, and then you feel like the crazy person.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Right. You feel like, wait, have I made a mountain out of a molehill? Am I making this bigger than it is?

SPEAKER_02 2:24

And I not seeing what everybody else sees, or am I seeing it? And this is when Whitney said, or are they under the narcissistic spell? And I was like, wait, what? Tell me everything.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Yeah. So to be just transparent, it is a term I came up with. It's you're not gonna find it in the DSM. You're probably not gonna find it in a textbook. This is just my way of describing something. So when we think about the narcissistic spell, kind of like what you were saying, Sarah, is you look at that person, and while you can be civil, you can be cordial, something about that person doesn't sit right with you. You can't always put your finger on it because you may not have that pattern of behaviors yet, or things like that, to where you're like, oh, that's why we don't jive. You could think, well, it's just a personality clash, or oh, there's a generational gap, or we were brought up differently, or there's cultural differences. Those can play a role, but the narcissistic spell is when this person can basically go into any setting and people are almost fawning over them. And to clarify, this person is not always famous. You can see it in the limelight, you can see it in Hollywood, you could see it in politics, you can see it in megachurches, like you can see it in these big, big areas, but on a smaller scale, this person, Joe Schmoe, walks in, and all of a sudden everybody's like, Oh my god, I need to fall at your feet. You're so wonderful. And you're over there, like, why are they so wonderful? I don't understand.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

And so what it is is when you are on the outside of that narcissistic spell,

Why Groups Miss The Red Flags

SPEAKER_00 4:05

you can kind of discern something is off, whatever that off is. You can kind of tell that maybe they're being elusive, or maybe you feel like they're being manipulative, maybe they're not being honest. You can kind of get those vibes. The people who are in the narcissistic spell cannot see it, they cannot see that this person is very grandiose, that they're almost self-made famous in a way. It is another one of those two that once that person is gone, they move, not to be morbid, but if they pass away, but there is a distance that is created in some capacity, then all of a sudden everyone's like, Oh, oh, now I see it. And like I was telling you, Sarah, you know, now that I've been separated from my situation for several years, this was the situation with the pastor at the church my husband used to be a minister at. And we do see it in those kind of lower leadership arenas. So we're talking churches, you can think about school boards, you can think about the admins out of school, for goodness sakes, collegiate arenas, coaches, things like that, where people just think they have hung the moon and stars, and you're over there like, eh? I don't think that they have. Yeah. And it's one of those, it's really hard to put your finger on it until you know what you're dealing with. But this person will still have those same narcissistic qualities or characteristics, and it's going to be that they do have those thoughts of grandiose about themselves. They really do think they're pretty great and wonderful. Um, a lot of times they are in um positions of power or authority. That's another one to be aware of. This is not a hundred percent with all of them because you got to think a lot of times, you know, ministers and pastors don't make tons of money, but you also want to look at are they wealthy? Is there money to back up this power? Yeah, you know, is money buying them this narcissistic spell where they can almost fake being philanthropic. Like, you know, there's a family in need. Oh, well, you know what, let's give them $500 worth of groceries, let's help out the kids with school supplies. And while those actions in and of themselves are good things, what is the motive behind it? Is there a string attached to this to where that person holds power over them now? Because remember, when we look at narcissism and when we look at what used to be called being a sociopath, now it's called antisocial personality disorder. Control is a big deal. They want that control and they will go to links to get it, they can put a mask on to get that control. Because a lot of times people will say that narcissism looks a lot like Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde. So, what version of them are we going to get? We can be nice and pleasant out at this get together, out at this party, out at the soccer game. We can put that face on, but behind closed doors, who is that person? Are they threatening? Are they demeaning? Are they intimidating? And that's how it works. Again, kind of like I was kind of rewinding back to the church scenario. I told you that the pastor there, I've now come to realize was covert narcissism. But then, you know, baby social worker Whitney didn't have all the clinical knowledge that I do now. And I genuinely just kept thinking, okay, maybe it's a personality clash. Maybe it's because, you know, there's a 40-year age gap between the two of us. We're gonna have a different upbringing and all of that kind of stuff. But we never really jived.

SPEAKER_03 8:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

I did with the other ministers there and their wives, and I even jived with his wife. It was him that I never felt like I could get a decent read on. That's another thing. You feel like you don't really know what's going on with this person. It's a little confusing, and we don't know why it's so confusing.

SPEAKER_02 8:22

Yeah, and I think that's what's so hard is especially with this situation. I immediately, you know, you think you're a good read-on people, and I think majority of the time I am. Have I been wrong? Occasionally, but generally I'm pretty good. And my husband will always say, Well, you know, but you are ready to crucify someone without evidence. So internally, I know I need to work on that. But I'm like, that's a different thing, you know. But I'm just like, but I'm different. And I think that's what's hard for people who's not in

Power Control And Two Faces

SPEAKER_02 8:55

that spell, is like you're going, okay, I don't have hard evidence at this moment of this person. You know, there's nothing obvious that they've said, they've done, right, that I can say without you thinking I'm crazy, saying I don't like this person because of this, or I feel a certain way, like, or my spidey senses, my intuition is going, whoa, woo, woo. And so then you feel like you're just orbiting over here in your own little planet while all these other people are in this person's sphere. Right. And so you feel outcasted or you feel off. And then I remember sharing this with a new friendship who I've grown very close to now and adore. And thank gosh, I had that honesty moment because when things did come out, and that's the thing, they will always come out. Oh, yes, they will. The ball will always drop on this person and their actions, and when it did in a very public big way, you know, it's kind of like a I'm not crazy moment.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Yes, it's validating. Yeah, and here's the thing: I'm gonna go out on a limb and say our intuition is right about 90% of the time. Because, and I think we've mentioned this in a podcast before, but I'm gonna reprise it here. There's a difference between your anxiety and your intuition. Anxiety will kind of snowball or spiral, but what about this? Or what if this? But if this goes bad, then this is gonna go bad, and we quickly kind of spin out of control. Intuition is something is off. I may not know what it is, but something is off. So we're not catastrophizing, we're not saying this big horrible thing is about to happen. We're saying something in my gut tells me this is wrong, something is wrong. That person is not trustworthy. Something in your gut says something is wrong here. That's intuition because we're not spiraling, we actually feel pretty dang confident.

SPEAKER_02 11:05

Yeah, and you're almost scared how confident you feel because you're just like, I don't know what it is yet, but it's it's there, and then I think there's levels of what people do with this, right? And this person's level was pretty large, hurt very public, and it did pull a lot of rug and a lot of people. And I think on the opposite, we should address is like, what's if this has happened to you? What's if the listener's going 100% this happened? It was a relationship, it was at the job, it was this, and I was looking, you feel almost stupid at the end. You're like, How did I miss it?

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Here's the thing the narcissistic spell can be cast on anybody. Okay, you are not stupid, you are not naive. Narcissists are very good at what they do, they are very charismatic, and they are a chameleon. They can match their environment. It is not hard for them to cast that spell and for them to look good, to sound good, to make these promises again, they can look very philanthropic.

Intuition Versus Anxiety

SPEAKER_00 12:16

They could be quote unquote helping someone out in the community, and while that person benefits, there's always something going on behind the scenes, there's always a catch there. And so if you find yourself being like, oh my gosh, that person did pull one over on me, you're not at fault for that. Okay, you're not at fault for being the victim of someone's abuse. Okay, no one ever deserves abuse, whatever type it is. Okay, so if you have any guilt surrounding that a narcissist kind of pulled the wool over your eyes, mm-mm, you did nothing wrong. Therapist wouldn't hear is gonna say you should only feel guilty if you did something wrong. You did nothing wrong when you were the victim. The narcissist is making you feel guilty. Okay, yeah about control for them. Again, a narcissist loves control, so if they can guilt trip you, guess what? You're gonna go back to them for reassurance. See what I'm saying? So if the spell has been cast on you and you realize that you're not at fault. I really need y'all to hear me say that. But when you are on the outside looking in and you have not had the spell cast, but you can see other people have, that is when you just start to plant those seeds of hey, did this hit you a little off? We're not being accusatory, because people tend to defend the narcissist.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

Oh, so many people did, and it's the codependency, and still even do, which is even more mind-boggling to me of how deep the spell was, or it was just it is hard, it's so hard because there's so many emotions and it's chaos, right? And it's you and these people and what they've done. It's not easy, it's not smooth, it's not a good relationship, it's not a good interaction. But that is, I think, because they're looking at you, go, well, how did you know? And you're looking at them going, well, how didn't you know? And you're both dealing with an aftermath, and then you're trying to move forward. And then I feel like the people who believed it now, they're most hyper-vigilant. And then you're like, I hope I'm not wrong again, because I was right about this person, but what's if I'm wrong about someone else? Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Well, and here's the thing we live and we learn life is trial and error. Okay. So when you are out of that narcissistic spell, we end up being able to see so much more clearly in hindsight. And when we have that opportunity to step back, we get to see a bigger, wider picture when we take that step back. So when that happens, start to think through and ask yourself in any point in interacting with them, did I feel off in my body? Did I feel antsy? Did I kind of get a pit in my stomach, or did I feel nervous? Did I feel like I really just kind of had to get out of there? A rapid heartbeat, any of those anxiety physical symptoms? Ask yourself, did I ever feel that around them?

SPEAKER_03 15:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

If you did, realize that your body may sense something that you may not know yet. Okay, we talk about animals being intuitive, like dogs and horses understanding what people feel. We still have that. We just have to take the time to listen for it. So think back: did you ever feel like something was just off with your body when you were around that person? If the answer to that is no, that's okay. Again, a narcissist is really good at fooling people, it's what they do. But then ask yourself, okay, was there ever a time where they did fool me and then turned out, oh, they I've figured it all out? Okay, well, what led up to you figuring that out? Yeah, you know, start to look back on those patterns. Because that's what the a narcissist does have is a pattern. You know, did was there an anger outburst that really seemed uncalled for? You know, if anybody questioned anything, did they get angry, did they get upset? Very out of character for them, kind of thing. Do you remember any gaslighting phrases of oh well, I'm sorry that that made you feel this way? However, had you not done this, I I wouldn't have gotten pushed to that point. So even if the narcissistic spell has been cast on you and you have now broken away from that, look back and say, okay, was there a pattern? Was there gaslighting? Look for those narcissistic behaviors through a different lens. Take that knowledge into the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_02 17:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

Because unfortunately, that's not going to be the last narcissist you ever encounter. No, no, I hate to be Debbie Downer, but that that's life. They walk with us, y'all.

SPEAKER_02 17:23

They really do, and and very well. And that's a and that's a thing. It's like you're going to, and I I think just again, knowledge is so much power of patterns, behaviors, and you don't have to have all the evidence. If something don't sit right, something don't sit right. And I think it heightens,

Patterns Boundaries And Next Steps

SPEAKER_02 17:40

especially when your children are involved. Right. It is, you know, I don't gotta know all the details to know, like, hey, you know, my kid's not going over to that house for a play date. Or, you know, if this person is going to be coaching this team with my child, I'm gonna be there, you know, or I'm gonna be aware of this. And I it's just one of those things you you don't you don't have to prove it to anybody. And if you are wrong about someone too, you know, that's okay. But it is interesting now that Whitney has copyrighted this term. We're gonna go ahead and claim it as Whitney's copyright. We'll do the legal paperwork later, but it is she's on that, but it is you can see situations now and say, okay, I was under that spell, or this person's under that spell, because there is times too when you see friendships or you you see your loved one who's in relationships with these people or involved in these, you know, it doesn't even have to be romantic like, and you're like, they just can't see it. It kind of helps you understand it and work through the dynamics at play.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Absolutely. So it is it's okay. We can troubleshoot.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

Yes. So I love this. Hey, real life situation brings up great topics because that means we're going through it, Whitney. But you know, we're our pain is our listeners' benefits here as always. It's it's like we are going to live it and share it. But um, if you guys are like, okay, this is all me, I want to hear more about you know the narcissists, their behaviors, the types, go back. We have a great series about it. It resonated with a lot of people. So this is a tag in. So if you haven't, go back. But guys, we will be back next week. And as always, we wish you nothing but the best.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Maternal mental health is as important as physical health. The Preview Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables like anxiety, anger, and even apathy. Hosted by CEO, founder Sarah Parkers, and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay, each episode focuses on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum. Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms. You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time. Please know you're not alone on this journey. We're here to help.