There are few experiences as universal to human existence as pregnancy and childbirth, and yet its most difficult parts — perinatal mood and anxiety disorders (PMADs) — are still dealt with in the shadows, shrouded in stigma. The fact is 1 in 5 new and expecting birthing people will experience a PMAD, yet among those who do many are afraid to talk about it, some are not even aware they’re experiencing one, and others don’t know where to turn for help. The fact is, when someone suffers from a maternal mental health disorder it affects not only them, their babies, partners, and families - it impacts our communities.
In the Previa Alliance Podcast series, Sarah Parkhurst and Whitney Gay are giving air to a vastly untapped topic by creating a space for their guests — including survivors of PMADs and healthcare professionals in maternal mental health — to share their experiences and expertise openly. And in doing so, Sarah and Whitney make it easy to dig deep and get real about the facts of perinatal mental health, fostering discussions about the raw realities of motherhood. Not only will Previa Alliance Podcast listeners walk away from each episode with a sense of belonging, they’ll also be armed with evidence-based tools for healing, coping mechanisms, and the language to identify the signs and symptoms of PMADs — the necessary first steps in a path to treatment. The Previa Alliance Podcast series is intended for anyone considering pregnancy, currently pregnant, and postpartum as well as the families and communities who support them.
Sarah Parkhurst
Previa Alliance Podcast Co-host; Founder & CEO of Previa Alliance
A postpartum depression survivor and mom to two boys, Sarah is on a mission to destigmatize the experiences of perinatal mood and anxiety disorders (PMADs), and to educate the world on the complex reality of being a mom. Sarah has been working tirelessly to bring to light the experiences of women who have not only suffered a maternal mental health crisis but who have survived it and rebuilt their lives. By empowering women to share their own experiences, by sharing expert advice and trusted resources, and by advocating for health care providers and employers to provide support for these women and their families, Sarah believes as a society we can minimize the impact of the current maternal mental health crisis, while staving off future ones.
Whitney Gay
Previa Alliance Podcast Co-host; licensed clinician and therapist
For the past ten years, Whitney has been committed to helping women heal from the trauma of a postpartum mental health crisis as well as process the grief of a miscarriage or the loss of a baby. She believes that the power of compassion paired with developing critical coping skills helps moms to heal, rebuild, and eventually thrive. In the Previa Alliance Podcast series, Whitney not only shares her professional expertise, but also her own personal experiences of motherhood and recovery from grief.
Hayden Panettiere - Are We Finally Going to Listen?
•Previa Alliance Team•Season 1•Episode 228
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Hayden Panettiere helped bring postpartum depression into the national conversation more than a decade ago. Her story reminds us that postpartum depression doesn't always look the way people expect—and that's exactly why so many mothers go unseen.
Sarah and Whitney unpack Hayden's experience, the stigma that still surrounds maternal mental health, and why mothers deserve to be believed before they reach a breaking point. This is a conversation about courage, compassion, and what every family should know about postpartum depression.
Hi, guys. Welcome back to Preview Lines Podcast. I have with us, as always, my favorite material mental health therapist and yours, Whitney. Hi, my friend. Hey, what's up, y'all? And listeners, so this is a hot topic kind of series we're in. Of we we generally try to plan content and podcasts out, but sometimes things are happening in real time that we have to pause and say, why we also have amazing other topics we want to bring to you guys. This is something that we know you guys are talking about. This is stuff that's showing up on it. It's relevant. It's relevant. It's everything that's popping up on probably Instagram or Facebook for you.
So the first one that we got to talk about, Whitney, that came out of nowhere on August 16th was us finding out, especially this generation of moms, like Hayden Pantiers, death. Yeah. And people are like, my husband's like, What is this? Why are you guys kind of talking about this? I know she was on like a TV show, and I was like, well, because she, in a lot of this generation of moms' eyes, back in 2015, was the first celebrity who came forward for us and said, Hey, I had a traumatic birth. I had postpartum depression.
SPEAKER_00
Motherhood is not what I thought it would be. Right. She honestly was kind of the voice for so many moms. Yeah. And, you know, I really couldn't tell you until until I started digging like what she was in. But I knew I recognized her. And so aside from the things that she acted in, I realized she was the person who knew Tragena pulled their ad sponsorship, brand partnership, whatever you want to call that, because she spoke up about her struggles with postpartum depression and postpartum anxiety. And what a slap in the face that is to moms. Because to me, and listeners, y'all, y'all could disagree with me. Okay. I don't even know that this is therapist Whitney as much as it is just Whitney, is that it's like she got punished for saying that she was struggling and needed help, and she was outspoken about it. And they said, ooh, that's not the look we're going for. So we're gonna cut the deal. And she's already struggling, and so you're gonna add insult to injury. That's all I can think was you you kicked her while she was down. Instead of saying, Well, how can we help you? How can this sponsorship help you get what you need? They said, We're cutting it.
SPEAKER_01
That was uh live in Kelly, Ryan and Kelly, or whoever Ryan and uh Kelly, it was it was one of those shows. I remember honestly seeing that, and that was before I had my oldest, and going, like the way she said it, and like you could see like the emotion in her eye. She was so vulnerable, so transparent, which I know every single mom has had that
moment where you have been vulnerable and transparent and have not been met with the response that you wanted, or needed.
SPEAKER_00
Uh-huh. Like when moms say, I am struggling, I am experiencing intrusive thoughts, or I have insomnia because I'm so anxious about SIDS. That was me, by the way. When someone comes out and says that, they're hoping someone can see them in that moment. That was very hard for them to be able to verbalize, and they're hoping someone will meet them with help, not judgment, not punishment, not consequences. And she was met with that. And so I can only assume how many moms have seen that or that it comes to light now. And they think, well, if she was cut off from that brain deal, if she was reprimanded so badly, and she's a celebrity, she has more resources, she has more money, possibly more connections, one would assume. Well, then why would I speak up for myself? Because I can only assume I'm going to have consequences too.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah. And you know, what she went through, you know, because I went back and I looked about what she was telling, because, you know, the timeliness of everything is so wild because she was just on a podcast. She was just disclosing a lot about her life, a lot about addiction, a lot about trauma. And, you know, she said she labored for 14 hours with her daughter Kaya, and then had to go into surgery after because she was having serious bleeding complications. So she had a traumatic birth. And just like I've had two traumatic births, the trauma of the birth doesn't go away once they hand you the baby.
SPEAKER_00
No, that's not the band-aid, that's not the antibiotics to heal the infection.
SPEAKER_01
And that lives with you. And it is extremely traumatic when you are, you know, the long, the long labor, the complicated labor, and then you're worrying about yourself. Once the baby is okay, you're worrying if you're gonna make it. And then she went on to say, she's like, I had my daughter, and I just knew something and something with me was just terribly, terribly wrong. I wasn't connecting with her the way I thought I should be. And she was very open that she always wanted to be a mob. She dreamed of being a mob.
SPEAKER_00
Yep, that was a dream of hers, a goal of hers.
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
SPEAKER_00
And we look at how difficult her. I'm I don't know if she ever put this label to it. I'm putting this label to it, her postpartum PTSD.
unknown
Yes.
SPEAKER_00
Down the road, she signed over her parental rights. And a lot of people have attacked her for that saying, well, she never really loved her daughter. Time out. I don't think that's what happened. I think that she loved her daughter so much that she recognized she was not in a place to actually care for her the way she wanted to, or maybe even needed to. So she chose to relinquish her parental rights to hopefully give her daughter a better opportunity or better outcome.
That is no different than someone who chooses adoption for their baby. And we need to view it in that same light as she's hoping to give her daughter more opportunities.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah. And she and she would admit that, and she said it very openly. And she, even on that live interview of it was Killian, whoever, if it was Ryan Seacrest, whoever was back in the day with her, right, or that older man, I forget it, I'm blanking on his name, but she even brought up intrusive thoughts in that interview. She said, you know, I know some moms have thoughts of harming themselves, of harming babies. You know, I know like some women are so depressed. It's this. And so she was opening up a can of like, hey, it's not just me. It's and she said, it's so misunderstood. And I'm saddened to say it's still 11 years later, we are still the same level of misunderstanding. Oh my gosh, maternal mental health. We've not moved that needle at all.
SPEAKER_00
And that is so disheartening. Yeah. Like, why have we not moved the needle? And I will say, I do think postpartum support international has really hit the ground running. They've done a ton of work on it, but I don't think they have even gotten the support and maybe advocacy that they deserve for the work that they are doing.
SPEAKER_01
No, and it comes down to that people struggle so much with is what like it's not okay for a mom to be depressed. It's not okay for her to think something. It's not we cannot disclose a good mom would never disclose intrusive thoughts she's having, the scary thoughts. You know, it totally clashes with people's imaginary ideal of what motherhood is. The societal expectations, and we put that on ourselves too, and then it makes people uncomfortable. Oh yeah. You know, when we're here, especially in the South, right? You're this is a blessing, which it is. You should just smile. We've been, you know, people say, Well, we've been giving birth to babies since you know the dinosaurs, and it, you know, they were all fine.
SPEAKER_00
It's like, were they moms didn't struggle?
SPEAKER_01
It's like, were they, or did we hear about situations that now make sense to us? Right. Right. So it's timely because moms with the which were our following episode, listeners, we are gonna talk about the Clancy's trial, but with that going on, plus Hayden's passing and her being again so open of how motherhood was everything she wanted, everything she dreamed, she loved this baby so much, but she struggled and she was not did not receive the help. And so she said she turned to unhealthy coping mechanisms.
SPEAKER_00
How many of us do that though? I mean, you know, we think it has to just be alcohol or drugs. That you know, so often people turn to their phones, which it can be very addictive, they turn to food as a comfort source, or you know, the insomnia kicks in
because, like, this is the only chance I have for myself. And before you know it, that circadian rhythm is often then you can't sleep. Yeah. And there are so many unhealthy coping skills that don't get either the same attention or the same stigma as drugs and alcohol. And you know what? That being said, if I'm having a rough day and I eat some ice cream for comfort, guess what? Like my brain still operates the same, my reflexes are the same. Whereas if I drink alcohol, it may not. So I get that, where your brain does not get necessarily as interfered or compromised with, but that doesn't mean that it's a healthy choice.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I I think moms still too of like, okay, so if I speak out, what happens? Does my husband look at me differently? Does his family treat me differently? Does my boss not give me that promotion? Because now there's a seed of doubt that I'm unsuitable.
SPEAKER_00
Does my doctor judge me?
SPEAKER_01
Uh-huh. Are they is the school thinking or the daycare going to think I need to call child protective services on me? Right. There's so many levels that we're still fighting if we are honest and transparent. Right. That she did. And now I I'm waiting for Neutrogena to come out with some kind of statement to say they should. Um, and you know, and apparently they didn't renew her contract, which had been renewed for like a decade or something crazy like that. And then after that, they said, Oh, we're just moving forward.
SPEAKER_00
You don't represent, you're not modeling brands, or something like that.
SPEAKER_01
Uh-huh. And it's like, again, we're not comfortable with a mom struggling. Right. Because then that means that people have to acknowledge that we failed her or we've not helped her, or she's not superwoman. That's where people have a hard time.
SPEAKER_00
These unrealistic expectations that society has put on moms to be able to do it all and with a smile and without any type of struggles or challenges, it is mind-boggling to me that we think moms should be able to do all the things all the time perfectly with a smile on our face, and that it won't impact us when you and I have gone in depth over the hormonal shifts that take place in our bodies, the hormonal shifts that take place in our brains, the fact that we are physically healing and we're sleep deprived on top of all of this. And what if we have a NICU experience? And what if our baby has colic and all of these things? People think that we should just say, Well, I got my baby, everything's great and dandy. The baby is not the band-aid, it's not the fix. No, and if you went through infertility and wanted a baby more than anything, guess what? Two weeks deep into it, when I'm not sleeping because I'm terrified of SIDS, I have my baby, but that doesn't erase my anxiety.
you can so desperately want a job. You can be madly in love with this baby. Right. And two things can be true. You can be struggling with your mental health. And insomnia, sleep deprivation is used for terrorist negotiations. Right. It is forgotten that it is clear, it is used, but yeah, we send moms home after they have labored, they've had a C-section, whatever has occurred in the hospital, which people I'm like, guys, the hospital is not like an all luxury four season stay where we're it is a lot of times. People are like, get me out because you're not sleeping, it's uncomfortable, your body's in pain, and then you go right into no sleep because the few people that do have such things as like a night nurse or a village of family that lives close to them that help is few and far between of what most moms experience. Right. And so sleep deprivation makes your mind not able to function. Right. It is the breeding ground for those intrusive thoughts for anxiety, for depression, for hopelessness, for rage, for the traumas to come back on that you have experienced. And it you don't know when you're gonna get sleep again. And that is so wild that we then think she should be dressed, hair, and makeup done out the door with the other kids, and then telling work, hey, sure, I can still answer these emails.
SPEAKER_00
Right. What? No, the the expectations are beyond unrealistic.
SPEAKER_01
Plus, the fact of it's huge, you know, we've we've the greatest hormonal drop of any animal, human known is immediately postpartum. I mean, you bottom out. It is like the highest drop roller coaster that six flax has ever made. And a mom is experiencing that, and again, no one's giving her any room for grace for that, right?
SPEAKER_00
But you know, I'm I'ma get on this little soapbox here. But if men will can you imagine the supports that would exist, the paid maternal leave.
SPEAKER_01
Come on now. We would all be paid by the government to quit our jobs as women to support them to go back to work, right? And take care of them, and probably have chefs be paid for by our insurance to make sure they had nutritionist mills. They would have physical therapy coming to their house to get them up and moving. Right. Um, they would have personal trainers added to get them back. Right. Um pediatricians making house calls, home pediatricians. You would have, I mean, you would have like the little, you know, the cars that drive themselves just be pulling up, being like, here's your groceries, door dash that for you. It would just be a whole different world.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah. It, yeah. I can get on that soapbox real quick, but it is disparaging to see the supports that men would have in this situation versus what women have, and we've been trying to get for years. For years, and you see the system failed her, and we'll go more in depth in a different episode, but how systems
Yeah. And I think every single mom who's seen Hayden and resonating, and then the trial that's going on and resonating, it's because you have experienced this. You have experienced being open and vulnerable and sharing and being guesslit or ignored or had an opportunity removed from you or judged. You have experienced more than not depression or anxiety or PTSD or had an intrusive thought and it scared you half to death. Yep. And you panic, which I mean, yeah, we would expect that. And so hearing this out and open and then hearing the public's opinion still, yeah, who are not educated. I think the key that I keep hearing is like, okay, when a mom tells you she's struggling, believe her and help her don't judge her. Before it comes to the end where it's too late.
SPEAKER_00
Right. And also, if you don't have a uterus and you're not an OB, you don't get a say in what this does to you.
SPEAKER_01
I was gonna say, there are so many people making comments that you're like, wow. And you know, even people and I, you know, I had no room to speak on pregnancy or postprime before I had children. Right. And that's how I feel like the people who's like in the comment sections are even surprisingly, people I've interacted with about even still thinking about with Tacoma Hayden being like, to your point, she gave up her child. It's like that's not what she wanted.
SPEAKER_00
Right. No, that to her was like the last resort. And she genuinely felt like it was the better choice for her child. But yet, you know, we praise the other women who make adoption plans, and you know what? If that is what you need to do, you do it. Yeah, you make that plan. But do not criticize women who do what they genuinely believe is the right thing for their child.
SPEAKER_01
No, I hope that everybody takes this moment and go, wow, we've not moved that needle since 2015 when this first conversation started. What can I do personally to move that needle in my own life?
And that is being open and honest with a fellow mom, especially a new mom, or if she's pregnant postpartum, and it is talking to your state and local representatives about maternal mental health. It's talking to your insurance and payers of saying moms deserve the they deserve therapy to be covered during pregnancy and postpartum. We deserve access to maternal mental health therapists. It's being the squeaky will, and it's saying little micro changes make macro changes.
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely. Absolutely. As a social worker who's had to do advocacy, you know what? Your representatives, your senators, your governor, whoever it is, they may get tired of hearing from you. Oh, well, their job is to listen because you are the constituent.
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
SPEAKER_00
And especially when we're advocating for mothers and for babies, how can a representative say, well, that's silly? Why would we do something to support you? That's a red flag.
SPEAKER_01
And some do. And so some don't say that, some just ignore it, and some keep going on. So that is our charge to you guys is you know, help us move that needle so you have a voice. If you've had a lived experience, share it. If not, be a source of education. And if you're always, and if you always tell people, I'm like, if you don't know how to start that topic, a good way is to blame me and Whitney and say, hey, I was listening to this great podcast. I want you, can I share it with you and like go back to our what is series? Go back to something that we've talked about that resonates and that opens a conversation without it feeling so personal.
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely. Yeah, throw us under the bus. It's fine.
SPEAKER_01
It's fine. We're used to it with our children. We can handle it. We're good. All right, listeners. Thank
you so much. We will be back next week and we're gonna cover the Lindsey Clancy trial. So stay tuned. Maternal mental health is as important as physical health. The Preview Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables like anxiety, anger, and even apathy. Hosted by CEO, founder Sarah Parkers, and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay, each episode focuses on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum. Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges as well as access tips and suggestions when dealing with your own challenges as moms. You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time. Please know you're not alone on this journey. We're here to help.
