There are few experiences as universal to human existence as pregnancy and childbirth, and yet its most difficult parts — perinatal mood and anxiety disorders (PMADs) — are still dealt with in the shadows, shrouded in stigma. The fact is 1 in 5 new and expecting birthing people will experience a PMAD, yet among those who do many are afraid to talk about it, some are not even aware they’re experiencing one, and others don’t know where to turn for help. The fact is, when someone suffers from a maternal mental health disorder it affects not only them, their babies, partners, and families - it impacts our communities.
In the Previa Alliance Podcast series, Sarah Parkhurst and Whitney Gay are giving air to a vastly untapped topic by creating a space for their guests — including survivors of PMADs and healthcare professionals in maternal mental health — to share their experiences and expertise openly. And in doing so, Sarah and Whitney make it easy to dig deep and get real about the facts of perinatal mental health, fostering discussions about the raw realities of motherhood. Not only will Previa Alliance Podcast listeners walk away from each episode with a sense of belonging, they’ll also be armed with evidence-based tools for healing, coping mechanisms, and the language to identify the signs and symptoms of PMADs — the necessary first steps in a path to treatment. The Previa Alliance Podcast series is intended for anyone considering pregnancy, currently pregnant, and postpartum as well as the families and communities who support them.
Sarah Parkhurst
Previa Alliance Podcast Co-host; Founder & CEO of Previa Alliance
A postpartum depression survivor and mom to two boys, Sarah is on a mission to destigmatize the experiences of perinatal mood and anxiety disorders (PMADs), and to educate the world on the complex reality of being a mom. Sarah has been working tirelessly to bring to light the experiences of women who have not only suffered a maternal mental health crisis but who have survived it and rebuilt their lives. By empowering women to share their own experiences, by sharing expert advice and trusted resources, and by advocating for health care providers and employers to provide support for these women and their families, Sarah believes as a society we can minimize the impact of the current maternal mental health crisis, while staving off future ones.
Whitney Gay
Previa Alliance Podcast Co-host; licensed clinician and therapist
For the past ten years, Whitney has been committed to helping women heal from the trauma of a postpartum mental health crisis as well as process the grief of a miscarriage or the loss of a baby. She believes that the power of compassion paired with developing critical coping skills helps moms to heal, rebuild, and eventually thrive. In the Previa Alliance Podcast series, Whitney not only shares her professional expertise, but also her own personal experiences of motherhood and recovery from grief.
What If Your Friend Isn’t Toxic… and You Just Had a Really Hard Conversation?
•Previa Alliance Team•Season 1•Episode 236
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In this episode, Sarah Parkhurst and Whitney Gay, LCSW, dive into the world of therapy speak and the ways words like boundaries, triggered, trauma dumping, and protecting my peace can sometimes bring clarity—and sometimes keep us from taking accountability.
Have we started labeling normal friendship conflict as something deeper? Is saying "I was triggered" easier than saying "I overreacted"? Is "we're just not aligned" sometimes code for "I stopped showing up"?
Join us for an honest, thoughtful, and occasionally uncomfortable conversation about healthy boundaries, real accountability, and why the strongest friendships aren't the ones without conflict—they're the ones willing to repair after it.
Because maybe they're not toxic. Maybe they're just human.
Hi guys, welcome back to Preview Alliance Podcast. This is Sarah, and I've got my favorite. Whitney, how are you, my friend? Hey, I'm good. How are y'all? So, Whitney, there was this post I sent you. And just
like, you know, our life is great. Um, conversation starters. Oh, yes. Instagram helps us come up with great topics too. And the title of this episode is actually maybe she's not toxic. It's when therapy speak actually hurts our friendships. Yep, it can. And I think what has happened is there is this common theme now that a lot of people are in therapy. We love therapy. Right, we're here for it. But therapy speak words triggered my boundaries, she trauma duck, she um she's toxic, I'm protecting my peas, all these things that we speak therapy buzzwords, buzzwords are used to ghost people, treat people poorly, not be accountable, and has kind of messed up some friendships.
SPEAKER_00
Well, sure. Well, here's the thing: I do think that sometimes people will weaponize what they hear in therapy, they will use that as their get out of jail free card, so to speak. And that being said, I'm all about some boundaries. And if I'm talking to a client and they tell me about their friend Mary Sue, and Mary Sue just seems to be running all over them. Mary Sue takes no regard for them, and I'm over here telling the client, hey, you need to be assertive. You need to stand up for yourself, saying, I don't like to be spoken to that way, I don't like to be treated that way, blah, blah, blah. So the client could turn around and tell Mary Sue, well, my therapist said that I just need to dump you. I may not have said that. I may not have said, go no contact. I may
have said, put some boundaries in place. Because Mary Sue may not realize that she's trampling all over you. They may just have a more dominant personality that doesn't make them narcissistic.
SPEAKER_01
Yes. No, they're, you know, the biggest thing that I think people mess up about therapy is so therapy, because what happens? You your therapist gets to learn about people and characters in your life, right? Right? Mm-hmm. But they're learning through the lens of you. They're not, they don't know this person. So Whitney only knows with your friends. So you do the same thing with everybody in your life. You know, Whitney only knows the version of the person that I am telling her about. You know? Um, and so therapy is supposed to be more about my self-awareness, right? Right. So it's supposed to be things that I recognize in myself, my patterns, my traits, how maybe I shut down, I don't handle this white, or I control things, right? And it's supposed to then lead me to be more accountable. Right. I'm supposed to be the one who goes, okay, wait, I recognize this situation is making me more controlling, or wait, I'm recognizing that I am shutting down because this is making me my people please or self, whatever, right? Well, what has happened then is that we have pushed the lack of accountability onto just like our friends, or we we don't give any human error grace, right?
SPEAKER_00
Well, and I think oftentimes people will excuse their behavior saying, Well, my therapist told me to. Be careful with that, because again, I may have said put boundaries in place, and you may go cuss out your best friend. That's not a boundary. You gave yourself the green light to act how you wanted to. Oh, and you saw me saying a boundary was you cussing them up and down, and that's not what I said. No, no, so we have to understand that we are still accountable for our words and our actions,
and you can throw therapy buzzwords all around, but at the end of the day, if you are not willing to take ownership of what you're doing or not doing, that's kind of a you problem.
SPEAKER_01
That's a hundred percent a you problem, and it it's awkward, and no one likes to say I'm wrong. No one's likes to say, wow, I totally misunderstood that. Right. I went off the rails, I, you know, I shouldn't have done this. And but but again, that's a whole lot better than being like, you know, so quick just to cut someone off and say, my boundaries, or you triggered me. And there were some really good examples that I think as I list them out, somebody may have listeners maybe go, oh, she said that to me, or I maybe said that to someone or whatever, but she didn't respect my needs when maybe she didn't text back quick enough because she has a life. Right. She crossed a boundary. Well, maybe she told you something you didn't want to hear. Oh, there it is. She trauma dumped on me. Well, my friend vented when I just wasn't in the mood to listen.
SPEAKER_00
Well, did you tell them that you were not in the headspace?
SPEAKER_01
No. Uh-uh. Nope. And do you does she listen when you do that? Right. And maybe you don't want to be vice versa. Right. Um, she triggered me. I had a bigger reaction because I'm going through something that I want to admit and I'm embarrassed of my reaction.
SPEAKER_00
Right.
SPEAKER_01
Um, we're no longer aligned. Well, did you stop putting effort into the friendship? Right. Or bigness.
SPEAKER_00
You know where people grow, people change, people can drift apart. Yes. And it's okay that that happens, but also own up your part in that too. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01
Or I'm protecting my peace. Well, maybe I don't want to have that uncomfortable conversation with her. Right. Uh-huh. You know, maybe I don't want to hear the truth about the situation, which is hard. Yeah. She's toxic. Or did you guys get into like a normal human disagreement that now we've created such a world with social media and
politics and life that there's no healthy disagreement? There's like we're not allowed to be friends and have different opinions. Right.
SPEAKER_00
Well, and also, again, you can disagree with someone, and that doesn't have to be the end all to your relationship.
SPEAKER_01
No, and they're not invalidating what you feel or say. I mean, that is one thing great about America is that we're supposed to have all different opinions and feel the way we feel and have open, honest dialogue without it being so isolating. Right. Two things can be true. We can be best friends and disagree on some core subjects. Right. And that's okay. And that's okay. And we're not trying to do it. And I but I do think now we've got into a space where feeling uncomfortable, feeling like someone disagrees with us, feeling like someone's asking us to be accountable, almost feels so like unsafe that we want to exit that relationship. We do not want to do the hard work of repair. Right. Or you feel like that you can't repair when you don't maybe know how.
SPEAKER_00
Well, and I'll say this: if I go tell you or tell a client to go put boundaries in place, you go and you cuss out your best friend, that is going to be very hard to repair. Because if I were on the receiving end of that, I'm asking myself, can I actually trust that person now? Because I don't think I can. Yeah. Just saying.
SPEAKER_01
No, and I think I think too, sometimes people are quick to jump to that because rejection scares them too. Like, I think sometimes it's like there's rejection, there's insecurity, there's like, oh, did I share too much? Now I'm gonna pull away. You're it's it's odd, and it happens. You see it in the uh in children of the friendships and trying to understand, and it's hard as you get older too, with so much more going on, but it's you do wonder, you get insecure about friendships, and sometimes that does, and you don't have that constant validation of friendship like we did in college where we saw each other constantly, or in school together, um, where you literally were around each other and talking, you didn't have husbands, you didn't have children, do you have jobs, you didn't have softball games, football games. So that one kind of issue that maybe develops. Now we sometimes throw in these words and we're just ready to ex nay the relationship. Right. So, what would you say to say client who said, Yes, Whitney, I set that boundary, cussed her out.
SPEAKER_00
And I'm gonna say, what about me saying put a boundary in place said cuss them out? Like we gotta clarify because am I communicating poorly as a therapist? Because if I am, I better change something about what I'm doing.
SPEAKER_01
Go redo.
SPEAKER_00
Right. So I need to clarify first off what did I say that gave you that impression? Okay, yeah. And if I if I somehow miscommunicated that that's on me and I gotta own it, if they come back and say, Well, I was just really mad and wanted them to know it, let's talk about how to express that in a healthier way. And what are the benefits or the repercussions of doing that now? Yeah, did you actually get a benefit from doing that? Because probably not.
SPEAKER_01
No, no, and I think too, there's this gray space of that happens, and we all do it, right? And it can be very true. It's like I've seen I've seen it with the kids. It's like one thing happens and we assume that what we know what the other person's thinking. We paint a story in our head, and then we just run with it.
So in these situations, oftentimes it's a hurt, right? There's some kind of hurt or misunderstanding. That person withdraws, that person gives space. They're like, okay, she needs a minute. Then that person interprets the space proof she doesn't care. And then now we're just like, she's toxic, she ghosted me, she cut me, she triggered me. And maybe it's just like you just need to go to that person and be like, I think I misunderstood you. Did I overreact? Or, you know, what you said really kind of sat wrong with me. And instead of me coming to you, Whitney, or clarifying this, I just I took it the wrong way. And I I did this. Um, can we try again? Or like, right? Hold up, can we just talk for a second? Which I think if anybody ever gets a text message of do you have a second to talk? Um, can it can we can we like I need to tell you about like you almost like flashback, or I do. I'm like, you might as well just said the house is on fire, right?
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, if someone says, I need to talk, oh Middle is spiraling, yeah, spiraling now. That being said, typically it doesn't go poorly, typically it is it is something very non-impactful, non-urgent, like all the and they want just time and space to talk to you about it, right?
SPEAKER_01
They just need a chance to event, but but you free played every conversation, every situation has ever happened with that person.
SPEAKER_00
I do, uh-huh, uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01
And so, because you care, and I do, but also it's also uncomfortable when there's uncomfortableness between you and a person, right? Right. So, all this to say the point of this relate this podcast is so friendships are data points at the end of the day. We're collecting. Is this how does this person and me interact? How do I feel after conversations? Um, how are situations with like and there's going to be one-offs, like anything data? Everybody's looked at these lovely data charts before we've been forced to in our school, where there's, you know, there's an outliner sometimes. Right, always. Now we're not talking about abusive relationships, truly relationships that should have toxic, who have no benefit for you, just makes you feel bad, um, manipulates you. Those are not these conversations. These are just be cautious if you see yourself saying these words in about a friendship, or if that's being
And more than likely, their therapist did not say to what extent they're saying that to you.
unknown
Right.
SPEAKER_00
I I promise y'all, I'm not gonna go tell someone to go cuss you out because that's just not good for anybody.
SPEAKER_01
Or can or protecting your peace is what I've probably you've never said cut them off completely with no nothing.
SPEAKER_00
Right. Very seldom am I gonna say go no contact unless we've got some patterns of abuse for years on end. You know, we really have to think about risk versus benefit with that. And, you know, saying that out loud, I can see where someone would go to someone and say, well, the risk of keeping you as my friend outweighs the benefit. Quit weaponizing therapy talk. We don't use therapy talk for y'all to go burn all these bridges. We're saying it in a way that can make sense. Now, if I tell you you really need to weigh out the risk versus benefit of this relationship, is it always taxing to you? If you try and address something, can the person hear you or are they just always defensive and unwilling to listen? Okay, well, then you know what? Maybe you need to go surface level with that person. Maybe that's where you're at, but you have to evaluate if it's riskier or more beneficial. Is it that time in friendship where you are having to pour into them more than they are pouring into you? Because what if they're in a season of grief? What if they are in a season of transition? What if they are newly postpartum or newly pregnant? They may need you to pour into them more in this time, whereas if the roles were flipped, they would be pouring into you.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah. No, exactly. I think this is a good episode just to check in and to say, am I weaponizing what I'm hearing? Right. And or someone, and again, it's probably more damaging if you ever use therapy talk and just normal conversation friendships than not.
unknown
Right.
SPEAKER_01
Um, again, it's those therapy talk is for you to take home, do accountability, a self-checklist, not to come to someone and say, I'm protecting my peace, we're no longer in this conversation, or you're manipulating me, or this is trying that just most times use those words with your therapist and say it's a let's leave the friendship aspect just to human
Absolutely, because everyone's gonna mess up, even you. Yep, it happens. Okay, we're not perfect, nobody is, and you shouldn't expect that out of someone else.
SPEAKER_01
And we're human, and I think again, as we're going into the holiday season, give your friends grace, give yourself grace because we got a lot on our plate. But we gotta stay going on because we're gonna be with you for the holidays, and we've got some great episodes. So, listeners, stay tuned. We're in this with you, without the therapy talk. Maternal mental health is as important as physical health. The Preview Alliance podcast was created for and by moms dealing with postpartum depression and all its variables like anxiety, anger, and even apathy. Hosted by CEO, founder Sarah Parkhurst, and licensed clinical social worker Whitney Gay, each episode focuses on specific issues relevant to pregnancy and postpartum. Join us and hear how other moms have overcome mental health challenges as well as access tips and suggestions on dealing with your own challenges as moms. You can also browse our podcast library and listen to previous episodes at any time. Please know you're not alone on this journey. We're here to help.
